sometime i read christgau and am amazed...

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why would you make unexplained reference to the lyrics on an album you're proposing to recommend to the uninitiated?

amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 22 April 2004 16:13 (twenty-two years ago)

I think he's intending to convey that these are a couple of the ideas/themes on this record that interested him, which he follows by citing the songs from which these ideas/themes sprang.

I'm not a great fan of this approach, but it does seem defensible from a logical standpoint, as long as you understand his verbal shorthand -- of course, I think it's adequately demonstrated here that not everybody does, which suggests some kind of failure.

Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Thursday, 22 April 2004 17:16 (twenty-two years ago)

"saying "...delivers an album as invigorating in its contempt for rock professionalism as Neil Young's Tonight's the Night" about Courtney Love's album doesn't compute at ALL with what I heard, let alone Linda Perry credits."

Anthony Miccio in Being a Different Person than Christgau Shocka.
(The Courtney Love album is very good, by the way; esp. the single. And I don't hear what Bob hears in it, either -- I also completely forget what *Tonight's the Night* was about -- but I still think that was the best-written review in this month's Consumer Guide. Especially the punchline about the world owing Courtney a living.)

PS: I've never been all that big a Bon Jovi fan.
PSS: The Blondie review made me laugh.

chuck "hair metal" eddy, Thursday, 22 April 2004 17:44 (twenty-two years ago)

"Eddy in Defending Xgau Shocka"

- Some predictable moron with his head up his ass

chuck, Thursday, 22 April 2004 17:47 (twenty-two years ago)

On an epic ILM showdown last year Momus did some great Xgau parodies in the style of cryptic crossword clues - I can't be bothered to find it, but it's worth a gander.

That was one of Momus's finest moments.

El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Thursday, 22 April 2004 17:48 (twenty-two years ago)

and oh yeah, "six months behind the curve" = "doesn't give a shit about record label marketing plans based around release dates," btw

chuck, Thursday, 22 April 2004 17:50 (twenty-two years ago)

but, but, but ... i thought all critics reported directly to their bosses at record label marketing departments! i just read that here yesterday!

fact checking cuz (fcc), Thursday, 22 April 2004 17:53 (twenty-two years ago)

"I think he's intending to convey that these are a couple of the ideas/themes on this record that interested him, which he follows by citing the songs from which these ideas/themes sprang."

i found that i had no way at all to infer this from the limited information offered in the review

amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 22 April 2004 18:15 (twenty-two years ago)

even given that i'm familiar with christgau's heuristic

amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 22 April 2004 18:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Re: Honorable Mentions

Isn't it sort of assumed that the honorable mentions are records the reader is already aware of? Would someone honestly feel inclined to purchase a record based upon the tone of a single sentence or phrase. I always read it as a way for him to deny responsibility if someone bought what they feel to be a shitty album. But really it's like "oh you like the Strokes well the new record basically repeats the first one. sorry, well you know it alright, i guess."

danh, Thursday, 22 April 2004 18:18 (twenty-two years ago)

You couldn't infer that Blondie sings about how she believes in reincarnation and wishes the Pope had a bigger dick from a review that says "Believes in reincarnation, wishes the pope had a bigger dick"?? Odd. No wonder so many magazines feed readers with spoons these days.

chuck, Thursday, 22 April 2004 18:20 (twenty-two years ago)

no, i didn't know if christgau was referring to the content of the album's lyrics, or making an obscure external cultural reference, or coining a new phrase, or what

wilful obscurity as test of readership savvy is a rhetorical deadend imho

amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 22 April 2004 18:25 (twenty-two years ago)

End to End

Just when our number's up
You smashed the loving cup
It spills out everywhere
It simply isn't fair
We light up fire flies
We kissed on New Years Night
We changed the century
All those romantic things
We changed the light to low
It made our spirits glow
If it were up to me
I'd never let you go
So If By Chance
You Should agree
Ohh tonight
We keep it Real
Toinght
We put an End to the End
And just go on and on
We wrote our name in lights
Made music every night
Heatwaves and rhapsody
Burn In my memory
We changed the light to low
It made our spirits glow
If it were up to me
I'd never let you go
So If By Chance
You Should agree
Ohh tonight
We keep it Real
Toinght
We put an End to the End
And just go on and on
Toinght
We put an End to the End
And just go on and on
Tonight
We Put
An End to the End
and just go on and on and on and
on and on and on and on
To the End the End the End
We try to put the End to End to End
End the End
End to the End the End the End
End To End
End To End

(Fade out...)
Oh, did I mention that I wish the Pope had a bigger dick?

Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 22 April 2004 18:25 (twenty-two years ago)

i mean christgau could just as easily been addressing himself to the character of the music, or of the publicity campaign, or god knows what, there's not context by which to understand it (none that i could gather)

amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 22 April 2004 18:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually hold up: He this from "Shakedown"

I used to get sick with solitude
I was always better in the multitude
But now I like it up here all alone in my ivory tower
Hi-ho at the end of my rope
I watch it all through a telescope
I think I'd have a better chance to see the pope
I get so bored with his shtick and his mini-minute dick

Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 22 April 2004 18:27 (twenty-two years ago)

So there you have it.

Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 22 April 2004 18:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Is it spoonfeeding to add a simple "on the former" before the comment about reincarnation and "later she" before the part about the pope.

frankE, Thursday, 22 April 2004 18:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Not spoonfeeding, FrankE; meaningless. And hack writing, too.

chuck, Thursday, 22 April 2004 18:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Mark, that's why I noted above that he had his examples reversed.

xpost

Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Thursday, 22 April 2004 18:30 (twenty-two years ago)

(Fade out...) Oh, did I mention that I wish the Pope had a bigger dick?

Hilarity.

frankE, Thursday, 22 April 2004 18:30 (twenty-two years ago)

It's hack writing to provide a modicrum of context for the reader to center themselves?

frankE, Thursday, 22 April 2004 18:31 (twenty-two years ago)

connective clauses are just pandering, real writers use only adverbs

amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 22 April 2004 18:31 (twenty-two years ago)

he's not writing an instruction manual for how to listen to the blondie album. he's just offering quick impressions at the end of a column of fuller reviews of albums he obviously considers more substantial. while i often have a hard time dissecting xgau, i'm puzzled at what isn't clear in this one.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Thursday, 22 April 2004 18:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Where does he say the "examples" correspond with the "review"? On every one of those honorable mentions, he writes a short observation or joke or description of whatever, then parenthetically lists his favorite songs, in the order of how much he likes them. Why should the Blondie review have a different format from the other ones? The pope dick line is the punchline of the review, but he also likes that song more than the reincarnation one. So they're in the RIGHT order.

chuck, Thursday, 22 April 2004 18:34 (twenty-two years ago)

it isn't clear what the sentence refers to (and, more subjectively, what significance this has, and why it should interest anyone)

i mean i understand this is one way christgau deals with limited space allotment, and to his credit he certainly has formed an identifiable and oft-praised style of out this contingencies. but as i've noted before, on other threads, he often writes so elliptically that the meaning is lost on a great portion of the audience, and unlike chuck i'm not so quick to suggest this is a function of laziness or stupidity on the part of the voice readership. it is the author's primary duty, especially in a newspaper, to communicate ideas to his audience, and if there's a great failure to do so it's unbecoming to blame the audience (especially when the problematic ellipsis can be so easily pointed out). sort of like rock stars whining about rock critics, in fact.

amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 22 April 2004 18:35 (twenty-two years ago)

wilful obscurity as test of readership savvy is a rhetorical deadend imho

Then again, if the ambiguity is entertaining enough, it will get people talking. Nice trick, that.

The Pope is hung like a rhino.

Evanston Wade (EWW), Thursday, 22 April 2004 18:39 (twenty-two years ago)

it isn't clear what the sentence refers to (and, more subjectively, what significance this has, and why it should interest anyone)

what else could it possibly refer to except that having listened to the album, xgau has concluded that blondie wish the pop had a bigger dick? my assumption was that there's a lyric somewhere on the album that leads him to believe that. but maybe something else made him say that -- something on the cd cover, something about the way she sings, who knows. i don't need to know right this second which it is. what does it matter? if i'm intrigued enough, i'll explore further. if i'm not, i'll move on to the next album and the next sentence.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Thursday, 22 April 2004 18:40 (twenty-two years ago)

(me in defending xgau shocka)

fact checking cuz (fcc), Thursday, 22 April 2004 18:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Apparently Christgau found these things intriguing enough to mention, which I can't understand. How is this supposed to interest any reader? Who cares what Blondie thinks about the Pope? There was no more interesting sentence he could have written relating to this album, and how it sounds, and how it is?

morris pavilion (samjeff), Thursday, 22 April 2004 18:43 (twenty-two years ago)

re: Chuck's last post: I guess I misunderstood the format of the Honorable Mentions, myself, then. I thought the named songs were illustrative of the short review (for instance, both the Blondie and Calexico capsules refer explicitly and exclusively to the songs that are subsequently named).

I don't hate Christgau's writing, or his style, but even as an occasional defender, I have to say that I find the format unclear (obviously, since I've been reading them wrong).

Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Thursday, 22 April 2004 18:46 (twenty-two years ago)

he should've said "bigger kielbasa"!

dave q, Thursday, 22 April 2004 18:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Please hire Dave Q.

Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Thursday, 22 April 2004 18:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Chuck, I had no fricking idea what the shit Xgau meant with regards to that Blondie blurb. And I'm not asking to be spoon-fed. Just clue me the fuck in for chrissake. I don't think that's "hack writing."

Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Thursday, 22 April 2004 18:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Please hire Dave Q.

Seconded.

El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Thursday, 22 April 2004 18:52 (twenty-two years ago)

If the bulk of your readers can't understand what the fuck you're writing about, then you've failed as a writer.

BanjoMania (Brilhante), Thursday, 22 April 2004 18:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Jeanne, again, what else could that review POSSIBLY mean? I still don't see how it's ambiguous. At all. It's completely straightforward!Yes, there are things about the album he did not discuss. Whether you have ten or 200 or 400 or 650 or 900 or 1500 words to work with, that's inevitable. He picked what he felt were two interesting things about the album, and he wrote them down. I'm not even sure *I* think they're interesting; frankly, I'm a little dumbfounded about why somebody would want to listen to a Blondie album in 2004 in the first place. But I'm not Bob. To him, words about reincarnation and the pontiff's need of penis enlargement were the most notable things about this Blondie album. Others might disagree; big deal. When they write THEIR reviews of the Blondie album, they'll pinpoint what THEY think is interesting about it. Oddly, I've seen reviews that go on for hundreds of words and tell me LESS than what Bob said in that Blondie one. It's bizarre to zero in on it. If there's somebody who can write BETTER ten-word album reviews, I'd love to meet them.

chuck, Thursday, 22 April 2004 19:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I think both Blondie and Mr. Christgau would be more than pleased to discover how agitated people have gotten over a single phrase. To any writer, I would imagine this speaks to a job well done.

Evanston Wade (EWW), Thursday, 22 April 2004 19:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually, Phil Dellio's Top 40 fanzine *Radio On* used to have even better and shorter reviews sometimes, though, now that I think of it. Rob Sheffield (who can do a LOT in almost no words at all) on "Tears in Heaven" by Eric Clapton: "Kill it before it grows." Somebody (I forget who) on some cover of "What Becomes of the Broken Hearted": "They become rock critics."

chuck, Thursday, 22 April 2004 19:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Chuck. It's great that you get it, but some of us might chalk that up to proximity. Without the context, it's just a bunch of words for a lot of us.
(x-post)

BanjoMania (Brilhante), Thursday, 22 April 2004 19:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I remember a review a few years back of Herbie Hancock's "Dis Is Da Drum" that read in toto "Dis is da dis." Probably a lucky one-shot on that guy's part, though.

Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Thursday, 22 April 2004 19:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Please hire Dave Q.

Seconded.

please pay attention to the section before you start recommending they hire people who already write for it.

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 22 April 2004 19:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Matos do you think there is a slight chance they already knew that? A very slight chance that Nicole at the very least knew that? That perhaps implicit in the comments was just a good-natured statement of approbation for dave?

Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 22 April 2004 19:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I was going to say...

El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Thursday, 22 April 2004 19:13 (twenty-two years ago)

No, I meant he should replace Christgau.

Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Thursday, 22 April 2004 19:14 (twenty-two years ago)

"It's great that you get it, but some of us might chalk that up to proximity. Without the context, it's just a bunch of words for a lot of us."

Good point. For people (or at least outer space aliens) who never heard of Blondie, the Pope, dicks, or reincarnation, it's completely understandable that they wouldn't be able to decipher Bob's cryptic runes. So yeah: Context is everything, I totally agree.

chuck, Thursday, 22 April 2004 19:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Jeanne, again, what else could that review POSSIBLY mean?

I haven't a goddamn clue!! If you honestly think that the first (or fiftieth) thought in my head when I read that was "I bet these are lyrical references," you're dreaming. What has me annoyed is that by your line of thinking, there's an allusion to the fact that if I don't get it, I'm stupid. (What Broheems is saying.)

Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Thursday, 22 April 2004 19:19 (twenty-two years ago)

more bullying from rock critics, please.

hstencil, Thursday, 22 April 2004 19:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree with everyone on this thread except for Chuck.

jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 22 April 2004 19:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, I always thought the songs that he mentions in parens were simply recommended tracks and didn't necessarily relate to the preceding blurb.

jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 22 April 2004 19:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Broheems do you think there is a slight chance I already knew they knew that? A very slight chance that I knew that Nicole at the very least knew that? That perhaps implicit in the comments was just a good-natured kidding around with my fellow regulars?

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 22 April 2004 19:23 (twenty-two years ago)

he invented twitter.

_▂▅▇█▓▒░◕‿‿◕░▒▓█▇▅▂_ (Steve Shasta), Sunday, 16 May 2010 14:54 (sixteen years ago)

see what I told you about heavy rock crit? ;-)

NUDE. MAYNE. (s1ocki), Sunday, 16 May 2010 17:05 (sixteen years ago)

three years pass...

Also linked on the year-end polls 2013 thread. Wasn't sure which Christgau thread to post it on

http://bnreview.barnesandnoble.com/t5/Rock-Roll/The-Consensus-Has-Consequences/ba-p/12189 his essay

http://bnreview.barnesandnoble.com/t5/Rock-Roll/The-2013-Dean-s-List/ba-p/12191

85 albums but no singles

Here's some of the albums

1. Vampire Weekend: Modern Vampires of the City (XL)
2. The Uncluded: Hokey Fright (Rhymesayers)
3. The Julie Ruin: Run Fast (TJR)
4. Jeffrey Lewis & Peter Stampfel: Hey Hey It's...the Jeffrey Lewis & Peter Stampfel Band (self-released)
5. Live from Festival au Desert Timbuktu (Clermont Music)
6. Lady Gaga: Artpop (Streamline/Interscope)
7. Eminem: The Marshall Mathers LP 2 (Deluxe Edition) (Aftermath)
8. Bassekou Kouyate & Ngoni ba: Jama Ko (Out Here)
9. Gogol Bordello: Pura Vida Conspiracy (ATO)
10. The Knife: Shaking the Habitual (Mute)
11. Parkay Quarts: Tally All the Things That You Broke (What's Your Rupture?)
12. Rilo Kiley: RKives (Little Record Company)
13. Rachid Taha: Zoom (Wrasse)
14. Deerhunter: Monomania (4AD)
15. Kate Nash: Girl Talk (Have 10P)

curmudgeon, Friday, 24 January 2014 17:37 (twelve years ago)

six years pass...

Anybody interested in this has probably already seen it, but if not, Christgau's 10 favourite movies:

Chinatown - Roman Polanski
A Hard Day’s Night - Richard Lester
Jackie Brown - Quentin Tarantino
Jules and Jim - Francois Truffaut
The Last Detail - Hal Ashby
Make Way for Tomorrow - Leo McCarey
Nothing but a Man - Michael Roemer
One-Eyed Jacks - Marlon Brando
Roma - Alfonso Cuaron
Where Is the Friend’s Home? - Abbas Kiarostami

clemenza, Wednesday, 19 February 2020 03:52 (six years ago)

three years pass...

Bill James announced he was giving up his online site today, so readers have been posting well wishes all day. In my comment, I mentioned the reader-question forums that Christgau and Marcus include on their sites, both of which came much later than James's "Hey Bill" feature. Another reader posted this after my comment:

I went to the same elementary school as R. Christgau, a few years behind, and he evidently had been so remarkable that some of the teachers would sometimes reference him, probably to both the pride and chagrin of his little sister who was in those classes of mine.

(My response to him: "Trying to imagine Christgau in grade school...The only kid ever who, at the end of the day, graded the teacher: 'Loved the math lesson, my attention started to wander during science, but overall, you're making progress from two months ago: B+.'")

clemenza, Saturday, 10 June 2023 18:19 (three years ago)

two years pass...

"Forget Donna Summer—this is the real disco porn. She's covered on the cover right up to the clavicle, her rhythms sound more binary than her producer's, and she can't sing a lick. But even if you haven't seen her movies, she projects an exhibitionistic suck-and-fuck tractability that links the two pervasive fantasy media of our time, and from such conjunctions Great Art arises."

— More, More, More, reviewed in Christgau's Record Guide: Rock Albums of the Seventies (1981)

...

imperial frfr (Steve Shasta), Sunday, 29 June 2025 14:49 (eleven months ago)

find one more xgau thread to stick this blurb!

hungover beet poo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 29 June 2025 14:56 (eleven months ago)

Eh.... Don't you have some review to write that makes some really obvious error?

;-)

imperial frfr (Steve Shasta), Sunday, 29 June 2025 15:15 (eleven months ago)

I will be sure to marvel at the size of women's breasts that I will get wrong.

hungover beet poo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 29 June 2025 15:18 (eleven months ago)

(NB: I have way, way less patience for Christgau these days, so fire away)

hungover beet poo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 29 June 2025 15:18 (eleven months ago)


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