Elvis Costello: Classic or Dud

Well, Slick Rick was cool...and I think I would like to see a Morrissey rap record.

I think if Morrissey created a rap album I'd have to kill myself. I'd listen to an Oasis rap album because it'd be hella funny.

Oasis definitely should make a rap album -- couldn't be much worse than their last album. I could see Liam rapping a la Lil Kim about his designer clothes. Noel could learn how to mix or be a backup dancer, because he would be boring on the mike.

And going back to Pinefox -- it's obvious to me, but that doesn't mean it has to be obvious or even slightly accurate to anyone else. My own biases are just that, and I don't seem to have implied anything more than that throughout the thread. If anything, you're the one who expressed bewilderment that someone could rank Sumner higher than EC in one's affections -- may I humbly point out that not everyone would see your view as obvious either?

I appreciate passion and opinion. I detest dogma. It's as simple as that.

Lest you find this too contrary to believe, I have no problem per se with this 'thoughtful craftsman' ideal per se. There's plenty of music I love that was created by people who put effort into it from start to finish, who have high standards of personal perfection. All very well, but my problem is when this is wrongfully prioritized, automatically granting whatever is produced by such a figure some critical cachet over something else done quickly and cheaply from a company out to score. That I refuse to accept -- it ranks the motivations of creation as more artistically important than the creation itself.

If somebody comes up with something random one night and has a full song the next day that turns into something rushed to market, while someone else spends ten years' creating something, and both get heard by me and I think the first thing is great and the second is boring crap, then that's just the way of things. The reverse reaction can easily happen, of course -- but it doesn't *always* happen.

It's just that I'm ridiculously intellectually precious about people who have, what seems to me, an outmoded view of the place in which I live, and it only takes one brief comment to provoke me. That's all.

>>> I appreciate passion and opinion. I detest dogma. It's as simple as that.

It sure sounds simple and appealing when you put it that way. Everyone likes to think they detest that awful thing 'dogma', which is always conveniently something that somebody else has. "He is a redneck; you are rigidly ideological; I, on the other hand, hold views with delicious suppleness".

This is all fair enough but seems to me like a very weak critique of EC's records, which have been consistently interesting and experimental (albeit not consistently excellent). I think it's possible to get hung up on his words and miss the fact that he has a knack of writing fantastic tunes from time to time.

Of course, I'm one of those people who likes the sound of his voice, so that makes things easier.

Your point is taken, Tim, that I've not yet heard everything he's done, and I allow for those records that EC himself has problems with, notably _Goodbye Cruel World_. I actually think Andy's point comparing him to Van Morrison is worthy -- what you see as experimenting I see as generally dry genre exercise, such as the Brodsky Quartet album. I'm vaguely impressed with the attempt but not keen on the results. As for 'consistently interesting,' can we take it as read at this point that this is NOT universal opinion?

As for my being an Oasis enthusiast, what of it? EC and Noel Gallagher may both be stodges of Irish descent at heart, but at least I don't feel like I'm at a damn lecture about How To Be An Important and Innovative Musical Figure when I listen to a song like "Slide Away." If EC inevitably projects that aura to me, that's life.

As for Oasis, there are no bigger slaves to craft and classicism in rock at the moment, and that's the comparison I was making. If you're saying *now* that EC's records sound like dry lectures in classicism that's very interesting and I'd like you to give some examples (particularly regarding his stuff pre-1985). However, that's not the argument I thought you were making above, which seemed to rely more on what EC *had to say* about music in interviews. Forgive me if I misinterpreted.

The problem with hardcore/jungle/garage mc-ing is that it hasn't yet (at least to my knowledge) evolved beyond formularised lyrical content that works as a support to a track rather than something that can inspire in its own right.

But the UK pop market would appear to me to be wide open to a charismatic garage mc with inventive lyrics.

I'm uncomfortable with the implication that people should make the noises their backgrounds suggest they should. This is way off topic, though.

But yeah, I'd say he's mostly a classic.

If you want some pre-1985 examples, sure -- _Almost Blue_ and _Imperial Bedroom_. The former admittedly seems, from what I can tell, to be seen as a misfire or at least a lesser album among many fans, and certainly I think Billy Sherrill is a horrible producer, as I muttered in another thread elsewhere. I note, though, that even Sherrill said to Costello that he didn't quite understand why EC was wanting to do something over again that had already done, and frankly I sympathize with him. _Imperial Bedroom_, meanwhile, from what I can remember of it sounded partially like an attempt to create a late Beatles album over again, correct me if I'm wrong or that sounds utterly misapplied. As such it didn't impress me much.

*shrug* I read once that Woody Allen was the eternal film school undergrad, perhaps prolific but never or rarely truly inspired. I don't know enough about Allen's work to agree with that particular judgment, but I almost feel it could be applied to EC and rock and roll.

And Elvis Costello, for that matter. I know it sounds funny, but I certainly hope I am more talented than EC, though I'm not sure that you could really be persuaded of that based solely on Melody Maker articles I wrote years ago. The point is, it's not very hard to write songs like Elvis Costello, the reason so few people do is that so few people want to. Torture a pun; look out of your window and watch some sexy girls walk past, contemplate how you're never going to screw them, get bitter then quickly write a bit more; doff your cap to dead guys who wrote better songs than you. I estimate it'd take you 40 minutes, an hour if you stop for two bottles of whisky.

That thing I wrote about EC - which Allan Jones ordered I rewrite and still never quite forgave me for - attributed that quote to Dave Lee Roth. I used it to make a further point: most music journalists like Elvis Costello because most music journalists think like Elvis Costello. I'm not sure that's true anymore, by the way. Increasingly, they all want to be bloody Lee & Herring, which is worse. No, worse still. Adam & Joe.

PS I once met Joe Strummer - during the summer of 1995, which I think he spent perpetually on E, and not long after that review was published. I was amazed when he recognized my name and told me he'd read the EC thing: "I tell you," he said, "I've been waiting 20 fucking years for someone to say that about that cunt..." I was never a punk or anything, but I felt quite proud.

I much prefer "Costello: he's so brilliant he's bad": the lookylikey idea is just clever-clever RoMo body-fascism (he said, crossly tugging his goatee and polishing his glasses), and will only fly if we get to apply it to everyone else as well.

Please tell me that isn't the "After Dark" in Laygate, South Shields???

That's abt 1/2 mile from where I sit now, typing thiz cobblerz, instead ov working. Christ....

x0x0

I loved Painted from Memory when it came out but I haven't been moved to revisit it in years and years. Juliet Letters I just repurchased on vinyl and I still really like it. I got to see him and the Quartet perform this live and it was so great.

I saw him and Nieve as a duo once, a great show that allowed him to successfully indulge in jazz and classical and Burt while still being himself imo. I think they just toured or are playing a few shows as a duo again this year, maybe?

Yeah, February and March, ending with three nights in Chicago with four extra musicians.

i saw E.C. with (Sexton and) the Imposters a year and a half ago. Nick Lowe opened. It was awesome and was only about a $50 show. Am really bummed this tour is like 4x the price.

Saw EC and Steve Nieve last night. They were excellent. Highlights were a particularly angry (and sadly timely) Less Than Zero, She, Brilliant Mistake and many others. Because it's EC there were too many ballads for my taste but he played and sounded great. And Nieve has a very good voice. Who knew?

Sounds good!

Feel like EC is basically a good singer but there's so often too much strain in his voice all the way through a song, rather than a strategic deployment thereof. And yeah, the ballads in particular can be interminable.

saw EC & The Imposters w Charlie Sexton last night in Sacramento

sound was not good, drums were miked v weirdly, snare was SO fucking loud & weird sounding. (mr veg thought it sounded like a practice snare.)

plus for the first half it seemed like EC was saving his voice, but also his vocals seemed a step or two behind the band somehow, so maybe moniors werent working idk

i was worried we were in for a dud show. the sound never really improved, but EC vocals improved in the back half & he closed the show in full voice. ended up being a good time (whew!)

ECstill charming as ever during stage banter

also never get tired of Naive’s playing. fucking magic. and despite weird snare, Thompson still one of the GOATs.

I heard someone say the same thing about an earlier show in the tour, which is strange - same problems early on, then it got better.

it was very odd!