ILM is kinda sucking these days (boring and meta ignore not safe for work)

I call bs on this, I have seen you in enough battles and was usually on your side too, so don't pretend you've been holding a peace sit-in the past decade.

lol, true, HOWEVER, how many of these were about opinion not being fact? :)

When I talk about "winning" it's never on the assumption that I am fundamentally right and someone else is fundamentally wrong. My taste in music has changed enough over time that - contra, say, lex - I don't ultimately see that there is any particular virtue in me liking/disliking particular things, except at the most instinctive kneejerk reaction level. It's a game: can I make my experience of x seem more persuasively right-seeming than yours?

Personally don't find the goon thread off putting. Deej, Some dude, j0rdan and whiney will go hard at each other but lay off the other posters. I mean to tbf I only ever post "I liked that" or "Thanks for the link" etc so I'm a very boring poster but it's not like posting something like that gets a sarcastic "Good Post!" reply or anything. Also whenever the goon thread is brought up on ILX the impression given, and I've just perpetuated it, is that it's consist only of deej, whiney, some dude, j0rdan whereas there's also Rev, Number None, EZ, Sisilafami, Dayo, Spottie, Lex and many others.

xxp

xp right. and more often than not it's ironically actually the subjectivitists that are more unpersuadeable than the fanatics

if you can persuade me that's true i'll agree with you

xp right. and more often than not it's ironically actually the subjectivitists that are more unpersuadeable than the fanatics

― r|t|c, Saturday, January 26, 2013 12:53 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah, I think because a really compelling seeming argument actually shakes someone who likes to think their taste is built on something. If it's all meaninglessly subjective then one may as well be obstinate.

that's only theoretically true

as you can see i outsourced my persuasion department to tim years ago

yeah the pool of regulars has only seemed to grow over the past couple years, which is nice. but y'know, even when the bickering among the core group is directed inward, i dunno, i can still see that being an unwelcome sight to others.

the whole genesis of the rolling rap threads was that there was a real dearth of threads being started about individual hip hop records/artists compared to early ILM. i don't think the rolling threads should stop people from starting more specific threads, though, especially if they want to discuss something at length without first wading through a bunch of unrelated youtubes. the Kendrick thread seemed to be pretty successful in terms of people having a place to talk about a significant record. xp

there's two different meanings of subjective being used itt tho. "Subjective" as in a fervent advocate of one's own personal preference (which is I think necessary part of expertise - it's the part that makes expertise unpompous), and "subjective" as in it being difficult to compare matters of taste or individual experience, or rather that being used as a rhetorical technique to pull up the conversational barricades and saying "I win".

The first is great, the second shit.

the first can still be pretty shit if it's not at least semipermeable

the prob i have with tim/rtc's argument is that we're all subjectivists here, in reality, right? just occasionally we behave fanatically. i don't think anyone genuinely believes they can prove their opinions through fact or logic.

but that's where how you wear yr tastes comes in - the individual tone of expression. it's never about "proof" but some expressions are more convincing than others through the wit and tone with which they're expressed.

I completely agree.

that's not a terrible meta joke btw, i do.

ok, misread the non argument. xpost.

I believe that taste is subjective, but I don't particularly respect my subjective taste. I'm likely to be persuaded by a good argument. So why should I assume other people won't be persuaded by me if I can argue the point well enough?

Of course I'm using "argument" but this is really just an extension of how good music writing can help you to hear things in a tune you might not hear otherwise (good things or bad things).

and that xpost wasn't snark! posting on a phone can get confusing.

I don't really take issue with any of this. I think all of this morning's discussion clarifies that my original point was related to when things stray too far into the realms of the fanatic or "expertise" (this kind of language just drives me up the wall)

Wouldn't you rather read "Metallica rule", "No they suck, asshole" etc....?

there's always been furious, self-righteous bickering on ilx, though i think it's increasingly in shorthand because the regular personalities have been chafing against each other for years. but there's this tendency to imagine some new poster who innocently wanders in and gets ripped apart, and it's not like new posters say "hey i don't know nothing about nothing, golly, teach me, you pro-am freelancers, teach me!" they're just as opinionated and proud as anyone else - that's why they went to a message board - they're just not used to lil warriors c+p'ing their every folly. it's not that people are more cruel here - they're just more incisive and witty then your average comments section cop. part of why i'm so glib when an ilxor is all "oh it's so mean, everyone's such an competitive, unaccepting jerk" is that i don't see it coming from anyone with any actual high ground on the matter. those people either live with it or leave. so when there's bellyaching I have to assume they just feel underappreciated or something.

there are still times when it's totally unnecessary and just rude/nasty, and not funny, not even funny in a creative zing way.

i didn't mean to suggest otherwise

are you guys sure we're not missing a more important question about the goon threads???

Mordy Reprises His Role from "are the rolling hip-hop threads racist?" thread? "ILM is kinda sucking" thread is LULz

Seriously ILX, call Mordy cause you're in the RACIST ZONE over goon threads (on ILX)

http://www.assignmentx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/CHILDRENS-HOSPITAL-S3-Corddry-Marino.jpg

ilx is in the gutter

Did the waaahmbulance take you to clown college

you guys are almost making me want to check out the goon thread. ALMOST.

actually i should probably check it out just for some video action. that's the one thing my facebook is lacking is people posting cool new videos/songs. i need new facebook friends. the only rap i get on facebook is from ethan. and i appreciate it cuz i usually haven't heard what he posts. facebook is how i found out about kendrick lamar.

I find out about music by watching what Ned posts on facebook

I think think ilm has been really good lately tbh

u would what with ur super awesome takoma thread

Also I think the goons do a good job, and the thread is no more combative than it ever was.

It's pretty easy to project feelings about hip hop right now onto the goons, but honestly we're in a weird place, there will always be good and exiting hip hop to listen to but I think it's old enough now where it's more like rock or jazz and any changes are going to be more evolutionary or variations on style rather than revolutionary

For a lot of us, that's strange as for say 25 years you could pretty much count on hip hop to be on the cultural and musical vanguard, so it's natural to think that it always would be, but that simply can't be sustained forever. It's not a ”new” musical form anymore, even though I kept thinking about it like that.

All that's not to say that hip hop won't be good or interesting to listen to in the future, there's still plenty of rock and jazz and even classical that's great

My point being if you can find anyone that stays more on top of hip hop than the goons I'd be surprised, and their enthusiasm is great

that's strange as for say 25 years you could pretty much count on hip hop to be on the cultural and musical vanguard

The cultural vanguard? Really? Significant aspects of it have seemed pretty retrograde over the years. Not prepared to argue the point, so it might be wiser not to comment, but I really can't let that go by without some response. Maybe I could see it as in the vanguard in a canary in the mine shaft type of thing.

pop culture/style culture I meant

All that's not to say that hip hop won't be good or interesting to listen to in the future, there's still plenty of rock and jazz and even classical that's great

even classical, yeah..

?

sorry about that er my own way of saying there is awesomeness around in many things if you dig but strike that as projecting blah.

is this thread about ilm or hip hop/goons?

either way, ilm is p much the only place i can regularly count on someone having anything in common with me (wrt music) so i would feel kinda lost without it now. where could i talk about popol vuh and shirley collins and and and? how could i ask questions about experimental bagpipe music, etc? afaict everything is just fine on ilm for fringe weirdos.

otm. there are very few people irl who i can BS with about weirdo music. i'm not looking for much else, let's just BS, people!

tl; dr any of that but anyone check out /mu from time to time, or is active over there? every time i check i get something good out of it, learn about some new sound and whatnot.

What's /mu?

music board on 4chan. particularly special place considering the quantity of content that is posted over there and nothing is archived. or maybe i am just lucky. last time i checked there was a thread about microtonal dance music like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLfYdfO3bgE and a noise suggestion thread where i heard of torturing nurse https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGd7Gy1Wwac . noise threads seems to pop up frequently

ps let's have a minute of silence for the poor nurses that get so mistreated in the realm of harsh zik.

Hmm I've always been afraid of 4chan

why would i go there when i can stay here? the people here are mostly nice.

afaict everything is just fine on ilm for fringe weirdos.

Yes yes fuck yes. There is so much fine music I have discovered from ILM including Shirley Collins and Popol Voh. I lost touch with Hip Hop well over 10 years ago when I became a bit of a Golden Age stuckist. I wouldn't post on one of these goonie threads because I would probably get ripped for being a dull monosyllabic clueless fuck. But I am glad they exist, because I am still going to pick up on the odd mixtape/album off them. I only discovered ILM a few years ago so I still don't take it for granted and think it is the ultimate music resource.