j0rdan i'm curious if your position is "yes keef is a rhythmically sloppy rapper but i like that" or if it's closer to deej's
― some dude, Wednesday, January 2, 2013 12:22 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark
honestly i rarely think a rapper is "off-beat"... my mind just doesn't register that stuff often if ever. like, when you used to say that webbie was the most off-beat rapper in the game or w/e i just couldn't hear it. obviously i'm more on deej's side of things as it pertains to keef... i think there's some virtuosity to what he does but mostly i just think he's throwing things out there and messing around a bit. i apply the portrait of him as a cocky and self-directed kid to his music in the sense that he tries a lot of things that most rappers wouldn't/wouldn't think of. i don't necessarily think all of it works but i will say that i think keef is at his least interesting when he's being the most "normal". i also think he's smarter than a large swath of people want to give him credit for but applies to lots of hated on trap rappers.
― dead cera (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 17:45 (eleven years ago) link
no, the difference which i pretty neatly delineated upthread is the diff between his delivery being slightly 'off' the beat & the actual underlying rhythm that he's following which is fairly precise
― D-40, Wednesday, January 2, 2013 12:44 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
you'll also notice upthread that nobody else has really agreed that this distinction exists no matter how well you think you made your point.
― some dude, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 17:47 (eleven years ago) link
pretty much all of keef's flows have syllables grouped into clear 8th notes, 16th notes, etc. if you transcribed the lyrics and recited them, they'd fit over the beat very neatly. he just doesn't deliver them so they land on the beat neatly. i don't feel like that indicates the existence of an "underlying rhythm," whatever that means.
― some dude, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 17:53 (eleven years ago) link
1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +
that's a typical four four beat. keef's vocals might start on one, or the + of 4, but they might be at the beginning of one, or the end of one, which makes them feel slightly "off" (Gucci, most obviously, did this too).
By 'underlying rhythm' i just mean the actual space w/in the subdivision of the beat that the notes land -- if it lands at the beginning of '1' or the end of '1' its still implying '1'
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 17:56 (eleven years ago) link
like, do you understand the concept of swing, at all?
^^this is a sincere q btw
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 17:59 (eleven years ago) link
late period Andre 3k is to me a clear example of a rapper going deliberately 'off the beat,' dragging behind and catching up, darting around the 1 with jazzy embellishments. not to say that his way is the only way to do that, but it feels to me like Keef is not doing that at all, there is no swing, it's all pretty rigidly segmented, just not executed with a steady hand.
― some dude, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 17:59 (eleven years ago) link
one of the most interesting flows on finally rich for me is "no tomorrow," where during the verses keef starts his bars before the 1 and finishes before the 2 hits and his next bar before the 3 starts and finishes before the 4 hits... really odd pocket he's in, makes it feel like he can't get his lines out fast enough, there's quite literally "no tomorrow" for him, he's gotta get his raps out asap fuck a beat
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 18:10 (eleven years ago) link
We was sittin’ there watchin’ the stage. Waitin’ for the man they called Chief Keef to come out and do his thing. It was me and my four droogs. Them bein’ Peter, Georgio and Dim; Dim being really Dim.
‘Round an hour’d passed and the place was packed straight through to the back. I’d just dropped some dollars for the Best Buy exclusive version of Finally Rich six months back. Now was the time, this was the place. The Harambee House. Chicago. 2012.
I was only there for the first night, see, but them cats at DatPiff just made my life complete. They put out a few mixtapes of all that sound. Keef put out those nights. But you know my type, man. Can’t afford to eat, let alone spend some heavy cash on internet. So I only got the essential. Finally Rich is one disc, makin’ it cheaper than an iPhone. And you only get the best stuff.
Man, the opening beauty of “Love Sosa” It’s like a dream I had: I floated on the River Nile, smokin’ some fresh weed, relaxin’. But I ain’t ever gonna see the Nile anyhow. This track’s as close as I come, and it’s close enough. Best of the best, though, has gotta be “Laughin' to the Bank.” It’s only when you listen to a perfect old rap tune like this that you realize how much "trap rave" is derived from this music. Keef takes it to heaven and back with some style, man. Some richness, daddy. It’s a sad thing his career was cut short by them jaws o’ label fuckery.
Shit, cat. It don’t make a difference. The man produced enough good music to last me a lifetime. This Finally Rich thing’s just another example of the genius of Keef.
--D-40
― finally rich, fun-packed, fulfilling (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 18:10 (eleven years ago) link
that was a pretty good Mad TV sketch, props.
― some dude, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 18:11 (eleven years ago) link
actually he's pretty consistently hitting the 1, but finishing each line before the 2 hits, it's so strange.
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 18:12 (eleven years ago) link
― some dude, Wednesday, January 2, 2013 11:59 AM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
fwiw i think as far as his actual 'swing' goes rtc is right that it's currently at an unresolvable tension b/w 'intentional' & 'side effect of emergence' (if im mischaracterizing he can correct)
but again, w/ this particular example, what was interesting to me rhythmically was where he was deciding to slot each eight note in that 4-beat measure as opposed to where he's trying to place it on each individual beat
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 18:18 (eleven years ago) link
you should share these ideas on twitter
― some dude, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 18:21 (eleven years ago) link
im glad weve reached the resolved state of empty zinging
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 18:23 (eleven years ago) link
not as happy as the rest of us are
― finally rich, fun-packed, fulfilling (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 18:24 (eleven years ago) link
that's a typical four four beat. keef's vocals might start on one, or the + of 4, but they might be at the beginning of one, or the end of one, which makes them feel slightly "off
lol is this not true of all writing? you can enter the line wherever & however, cf Betty Carter's virtuoso phrasing on standards like "The Trolley Song." the question is whether you are singing/rapping either in the rhythm or in a counter-rhythm that fits (toasting I think does a lot of this)
idk it's just incomprehensible to me that a person with as many years listening to and thinking hard about rap PLUS pretty deep jazz engagement can hear that Keef verse and call it "masterful" instead of "terrible"
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 18:24 (eleven years ago) link
the twitter suggestion was not a zing
fuckin ODB sounds more in control of where and how he diverges from the beat than Keef imo
― some dude, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 18:38 (eleven years ago) link
This thread is making me want to listen to "Stress" by Organized Konfusion
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 18:39 (eleven years ago) link
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, January 2, 2013 12:24 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
of course, but some entrances are more common than others & the reason this particular example stands out is b/c he's using a pretty unconventional entrance—not sure entirely what else is going on but the effect is both disorienting but controlled.
the fact that we're picking this particular example to death makes it seem like im making a big deal out of nothing so i'm going to assert again that this isn't an argument that this is some game-changing verse or that the world is different now, just that its a cool / novel flow & sounds like he's actually quite aware of how rhythm functions
if we could stop confusing 'rhythm' with 'precision' that would be nice tho
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 20:48 (eleven years ago) link
i feel like you're the only person who's really focused on the Big Lean song, most of what's been said about his verse there can be said of many of his songs
― some dude, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 20:50 (eleven years ago) link
keef just sounds entirely offbeat in a bad way on that big lean track, esp compared to most of his tracks
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 20:54 (eleven years ago) link
This thread made me put on some Birdman.
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 20:58 (eleven years ago) link
this thread is a thing of wonder
― If I was a carpenter, and you were a douchebag (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 20:59 (eleven years ago) link
keef just sounds entirely offbeat in a bad way on that big lean track
it really sounds like an engineer issue (ie consistently off), otherwise i don't even know.
― have a sandwich or ice cream sandwich (Jordan), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 21:01 (eleven years ago) link
― some dude, Wednesday, January 2, 2013 2:50 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
WHICH IS WHY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 2 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 21:02 (eleven years ago) link
...AT THE SAME DAMN TIME
― Ya Bish Bosch (Spottie_Ottie_Dope), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 21:04 (eleven years ago) link
lmao
― some dude, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 21:05 (eleven years ago) link
most delayed pay-off to a thread ever
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 21:05 (eleven years ago) link
Damn we are setting the bar high this year
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 21:17 (eleven years ago) link
I'm pretty sure deej has referred to three separate pairs of ideas as "two different things" itt, rhetorical hemiola y'all
― some dude, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 21:29 (eleven years ago) link
it's funny how this "this is technically terrible wtf!" vs. "you just don't get it maaaaaan" argument never gets old
― If I was a carpenter, and you were a douchebag (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 21:30 (eleven years ago) link
these bitches love hemiola
― Number None, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 21:31 (eleven years ago) link
My dear young man, don't take it too hard. Your work is ingenious. It's quality work. And there are simply too many notes, that's all. Just cut a few and it will be perfect.
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 21:34 (eleven years ago) link
lol number none
― some dude, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 21:44 (eleven years ago) link
lol mookie
― If I was a carpenter, and you were a douchebag (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 21:46 (eleven years ago) link
can we talk about how keef has 19 variations of "like i'm kobe"
http://rapgenius.com/Chief-keef-kobe-lyrics
but never once does a play on words about kobe beef
― finally rich, fun-packed, fulfilling (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 21:49 (eleven years ago) link
yeah but the whole song is kobe bryant references, not wordplay variations on the theme right?
― some dude, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 21:54 (eleven years ago) link
well yeah, but like you'd think since he'd wanna switch it up after the 20th time he said Kobe
― finally rich, fun-packed, fulfilling (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 21:57 (eleven years ago) link
I read verses like that and then I think of things like "Put Your Hands Where My Eyes Can See" and really I just wonder where it all went wrong (kind of want to blame Black Rob)
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 22:22 (eleven years ago) link
whiney did u just actually cite rapgenius
― attempt to look intentionally nerdy, awkward or (thomp), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 22:25 (eleven years ago) link
lol, i was hoping ppl would click on some of the great explanations
― finally rich, fun-packed, fulfilling (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 22:25 (eleven years ago) link
Omg that tip is super pro
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 22:29 (eleven years ago) link
(kind of want to blame Black Rob)
fuck you "whoa" is a classic
― hemioblock (The Reverend), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 22:34 (eleven years ago) link
yeah wth
― 乒乓, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 22:34 (eleven years ago) link
haha i was going through some of the rap EOY lists and was v surprised to find black rob there (and it was decent too)
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 22:35 (eleven years ago) link
why would you want keef to make a kobe beef pun?
― dead cera (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 23:01 (eleven years ago) link
next time i have a job i'm gonna say i'm sick with hemiola and see whether anyone bothers to look it up
― dead cera (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 23:02 (eleven years ago) link
ahahahahahahaha
― finally rich, fun-packed, fulfilling (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 23:05 (eleven years ago) link
the hemiola thing reminds me of when NPR did a feature on the appoggiatura in Adele's "Someone Like You"
― Sri Harold Klemp (crüt), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 23:06 (eleven years ago) link
try to tap a hemiola w/ both your hands, it's p hard to get the timing right
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 23:07 (eleven years ago) link