Tom Waits: classic or dud/search & destroy

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Xtina's more "sincere" than Jewel lately (I like TW)

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Sunday, 30 November 2003 12:24 (twenty-two years ago)

and there's nothing wrong with inhabiting a persona like he does. Sincerity leads you to Jewel, after all; fakeness to Xtina.

I guess so. It's just that it's a little off-putting that he started inhabiting that persona at, like, age 21...

― Chris F. (servoret), Sunday, 30 November 2003 19:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree with the chzzz.

Why do people not like Swordfishtrombones? I actually prefer that album to Rain Dogs - shorter. Plus, it's got "Shore Leave" and "Frank's Wild years." Hot cha.

― ddrake, Sunday, 30 November 2003 21:04 (twenty-two years ago)

closing time is pretty reliable, I haven't heard it in years but I imagine if I put it on I could sink into it again like a warm bath

― s1utsky (slutsky), Sunday, 30 November 2003 22:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I guess so. It's just that it's a little off-putting that he started inhabiting that persona at, like, age 21...

So did Xtina ;) Also, while the persona itself has remained constant, different songs present different perspectives of it; with much of his work, Tom's character (generally in 'observer' mode) is actually less important to the song than the characters he sees. Of course they're filtered through his narrative, but I think he wants to be a pretty reliable narrator most of the time, when not soaked in whisky.

I thought Swordfishtrombones was generally considered to be his best... I always preferred Rain Dogs, though. I still haven't got over how his voice sounds NORMAL on Closing Time.

― The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 1 December 2003 00:37 (twenty-two years ago)

i love him, flat out. my least favorite album is probably 'foreign affairs' (bette midler duet, ack), but even that has "burma shave" and "a sight for sore eyes" to redeem it.
as to the whole 'swordfishtrombones' vs. 'rain dogs' issue, i find the former to be a lot patchier. it was the first of the trilogy, and the first record on which he got "weird." on 'rain dogs,' he'd had the time to grow technically into what he wanted to do artistically.

― lauren (laurenp), Monday, 1 December 2003 00:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Consider that circa Closing Time, Asylum/David Geffen thought that they had another Billy Joel on their hands. Incredible.

I love Tom Waits more than life itself.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Monday, 1 December 2003 01:00 (twenty-two years ago)

lauren, I Never Talk To Strangers (the Bette Midler duet) is awesome! In it's own way! ;P

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Monday, 1 December 2003 01:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I love pretty much everything that he's done, though I do agree that Foreign Affairs (but still...) is probably the weakest record he's done. Renting Bone Machine from Edgware library was probably my single most formative musical experience. I've never been the same! I love The Black Rider, too. In retrospect, Mule Variations was a bit Tom-by-numbers, but Chocolate Jesus off of that record is one of my favourite Waits songs. Is it me, or is Frank's Wild Years curiously underrated?

Sometimes I tell people I moved to the Bay Area in the hopes of bumping into Tom. Even I don't know if I'm joking or not.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Monday, 1 December 2003 01:09 (twenty-two years ago)

"Cold Water" off that record is incredible also but yes, i forget that cd's playing when i pit it on.

― jed (jed_e_3), Monday, 1 December 2003 01:12 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah discovering bone machine at age 16 or so was a mind-blower!

haven't listened to him in quite a while though, I kinda overdid it there

― s1utsky (slutsky), Monday, 1 December 2003 01:12 (twenty-two years ago)

im in love with him. ;-)

― jed (jed_e_3), Monday, 1 December 2003 01:13 (twenty-two years ago)

oh YOU.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Monday, 1 December 2003 01:13 (twenty-two years ago)

(can't fault your taste, though) :)

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Monday, 1 December 2003 01:14 (twenty-two years ago)

But Mule Variations has "Big In Japan" and "Hold On" and "Get Behind The Mule"! It may be a bit om-by-numbers in places, but there's this almost physical sense of weariness throughout which none of his other albums ever capture... it's a record where he shows his age.

The Black Rider is shit-scary... I still need to acquire Bone Machine.

TS: Alice vs Blood Money? I go with the latter, though "Alice" is possibly the best song from the two of them put together.

― The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 1 December 2003 01:15 (twenty-two years ago)

let's see. on frank's wild years we have "hang on st.christopher," "temptation," "innocent when you dream," "yesterday's here," "way down in the hole," "telephone call from istanbul," "cold, cold ground," and "train song."
if this record is underrated, it's more than curious - it's criminal!

― lauren (laurenp), Monday, 1 December 2003 01:18 (twenty-two years ago)

yay! its his best record, i think. that and bone machine.

― jed (jed_e_3), Monday, 1 December 2003 01:23 (twenty-two years ago)

whats his worst?

― gaz (gaz), Monday, 1 December 2003 01:40 (twenty-two years ago)

franks wild years is the best, I think, and I have much much affection for the black rider

didn't really care for mule variations though, and his last two left me a little cold, though I think "blood money" is the better of the two

― s1utsky (slutsky), Monday, 1 December 2003 02:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I just bought Black Rider, having been previously put off by the AMG review. To be honest, I've listened to it once and it's currently m fave since swordfishtrombones.

― dog latin (dog latin), Monday, 1 December 2003 02:34 (twenty-two years ago)

it's so good!

― s1utsky (slutsky), Monday, 1 December 2003 03:09 (twenty-two years ago)

frank's wild years is definitely my favorite

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 1 December 2003 05:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, Mule Variations is great. I keep meaning to pick up Small Change from the bargain bins because of the band on it.

Also, Marc Ribot!!

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 1 December 2003 17:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Pictures in a Frame:

http://www.kicoz.nu/tom_waits/images/shoezko.jpg http://www.c-m-b.com/web/tom%20waits.jpg http://elsewhere.polydistortion.net/lib/cache/pics/music/2002-04-19-tom-waits.small.jpg http://www.e835.to.infn.it/people/fbertini/waits.jpg

― Chuck Tatum (Chuck Tatum), Monday, 1 December 2003 17:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Pleasingly feminine: http://www.front.net/gtausch/waits.jpg

― Chuck Tatum (Chuck Tatum), Monday, 1 December 2003 17:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Earth Died Screaming
http://www.sallykirkland.com/images/gallery/coldft2.jpg

― Chuck Tatum (Chuck Tatum), Monday, 1 December 2003 17:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Overrated. Not by much, but he seems to enjoy this sort of "if you like him, you're in the secret club" status more than almost anyone else. I haven't been especially moved by his last few records, but I was a huge fan from like Frank's Wild Years to Black Rider (in realtime, and I worked my back) I currently don't have any T.W. at home, but if I was to get anything, it would probably Nighthawks at the Diner.

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 1 December 2003 17:54 (twenty-two years ago)

franks wild years is the best of the later for me, and foreign affairs, the best of the earlier. the bette midler duet is possibly his best song!

― charltonlido (gareth), Monday, 1 December 2003 17:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Dud. I feel bad when I walk into a store or student-oriented take-out place and some poor misguided souls are playing his music.

― Rockist Scientist, Monday, 1 December 2003 17:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Ditto for Nick Cave.

― Rockist Scientist, Monday, 1 December 2003 17:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Rockist JOTO

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 1 December 2003 17:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Pish.

― Chuck Tatum (Chuck Tatum), Monday, 1 December 2003 17:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I've got nothing but admiration for those two misself, and consider Cave's "The Mercy Seat" the best J. Cash of the last 20 years. But they're both severely overrated. They're way too often token weirdness or worse, weirdness-worn-on-sleeve.

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 1 December 2003 18:02 (twenty-two years ago)

but the music is still good! who cares how other people wear it?

― s1utsky (slutsky), Monday, 1 December 2003 19:16 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.dking-gallery.com/pix/Waits/WaitsTu.jpg

― Chuck Tatum (Chuck Tatum), Monday, 1 December 2003 19:52 (twenty-two years ago)

six months pass...

From The Wire:

"The next generaton of an underworld American musical dynasty makes its debut on a new LP currently being worked on by Tom Waits. The singer's son Casey appears playing percussion and turntables on the album, working title Real Gone, slated for release this autumn on Anti Records."

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Sunday, 27 June 2004 17:13 (twenty-one years ago)

And yes, I know, there were turntables on Mule Variations. But they weren't played by his son!!!

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Sunday, 27 June 2004 17:14 (twenty-one years ago)

I really, really hope that this isn't a bad sign!

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Sunday, 27 June 2004 17:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Heh. I once read a quote from a musician who had worked with Waits to the effect of, "I think he would hire all six-year-olds for his bands if he could get away with it."

― Jordan (Jordan), Sunday, 27 June 2004 17:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Look at it this way, at least it's not DJ Logic.

― Jordan (Jordan), Sunday, 27 June 2004 17:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I know I'm chiming in late on this one - but absolute classic, def. one of my all time faves, though I need to be in the mood these days.

Best song: Who Are You from [i]Bone Machine[/i]. Does anyone else find this song to be the most perfect song/performance of his career. Reduces me to a husk every time.

Fave albums are [i]Closing Time, Swordfishtrombones, Franks Wild Years[/i] and [i]Bone Machine[/i]. [i]Mule Variations[/i] and [i]Alice/Blood Money[i/] I like very much, though a little patchy. Given what albums I love, should I get [i]Black Rider[/i]?

― PT, Sunday, 27 June 2004 22:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Please ignore dodgy HTML work there!

― PT, Sunday, 27 June 2004 23:01 (twenty-one years ago)

i'll bet the turntables are hand cranked 78's!

― gaz (gaz), Sunday, 27 June 2004 23:04 (twenty-one years ago)

wick-wick-wicked!

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Monday, 28 June 2004 00:09 (twenty-one years ago)

<crossed fingers>please please please be good</crossed fingers>

― jed_ (jed), Monday, 28 June 2004 00:14 (twenty-one years ago)

We've all jinxed it by even thinking about it!

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Monday, 28 June 2004 00:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Has anyone heard that Ramones cover he did? Apparently his kid plays drums on it.

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 28 June 2004 00:22 (twenty-one years ago)

if it's bad i will hold you personally responsible, Adam.

― jed_ (jed), Monday, 28 June 2004 00:25 (twenty-one years ago)

NO!

"The Ramones cover" is probably "I Don't Wanna Grow Up" - on Bone Machine.

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Monday, 28 June 2004 01:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Nah, it's "The Return of Jackie & Judy" on this.

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 28 June 2004 01:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Skipping 59 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

real gone is good it's got some siqq ribot playing

― kurt schwitterz, Thursday, 17 August 2017 22:33 (eight years ago)

ok the first song on real gone is the worst shit he's ever done

― kurt schwitterz, Thursday, 17 August 2017 22:38 (eight years ago)

Finding out that his singing voice is not his real voice did not really help in appreciating his music.

Actually, his speaking voice (I spent about 2 hours on the phone with him) is not that different from his singing voice at all, just slightly more subdued - 'cause he's talking and not singing. But his speaking voice is definitely gravelly and hoarse. The difference is about what you'd expect. I mean, Robert Plant doesn't speak in high-pitched screams, you know?

― grawlix (unperson), Thursday, 17 August 2017 22:39 (eight years ago)

Maybe his speaking voice is contrived as well. It could well be that he has "forgotten" his normal voice. There is a sudden change of his voice from the first two albums to the others to a much lower register. Do you really think that was natural?

― Ich bin kein Berliner (alex in mainhattan), Friday, 18 August 2017 12:41 (eight years ago)

there's nothing 'natural' about Tom Waits. his entire act is, well, it's an act. but like you say, it's hard to tell how much of it he has absorbed into his natural persona of course

― Shat Parp (dog latin), Friday, 18 August 2017 12:58 (eight years ago)

There is a sudden change of his voice from the first two albums to the others to a much lower register. Do you really think that was natural?

I disagree, and I'm listening to Closing Time as I type this. The voice sounds almost the same to me, just a little more singer-songwriter/country and a little less Howlin' Wolf/Captain Beefheart. Maybe a little more nasal and a little less chest/throat. That's all.

― grawlix (unperson), Friday, 18 August 2017 13:56 (eight years ago)

he didnt go full howlin' until heart attack and vine, which by all accounts is a great success of an album

― kurt schwitterz, Friday, 18 August 2017 15:39 (eight years ago)

His voice on the Glitter and Doom live album is verging on death metal. I was a bit disappointed by the lack of nuance on that one, even though the playing is great.

― Shat Parp (dog latin), Friday, 18 August 2017 15:48 (eight years ago)

eight years pass...

Revisiting Glitter and Doom Live today. I wrote this off back in the Times because I found his voice a bit one-note. But maaaan this is actually fantastic. I wish I could watch it live

― Now read it backwards. (dog latin), Saturday, 30 August 2025 11:06 (nine months ago)

Well what do you know?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByMi1Yii9ek

― Now read it backwards. (dog latin), Saturday, 30 August 2025 11:07 (nine months ago)

Terrible quality mind

― Now read it backwards. (dog latin), Saturday, 30 August 2025 11:46 (nine months ago)

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