why do people always defend them on the basis that they really sincerely like r&b? i don't doubt their sincerity. they still suck.
i remember watching creep at fabric once, someone connected to both them and how to dress well came up to me and said, i know you love creep and hate HTDW, but as someone who knows them both, i can tell you that HTDW really loves r&b and always has done, but the creep girls never cared about it til recently. i was like, that's as may be, but creep still make fantastic songs and HTDW still deserves nothing more than to be flushed down the drainpipe he apparently recorded his music in.
― #YOLO ONO (lex pretend), Saturday, 1 December 2012 14:10 (eleven years ago) link
i don't doubt their sincerity.
afaik, this is the first time I've seen you write this. Maybe it wasn't you during the Gayngs discussion who said it was some kind of musical costume for these guys, but I remember that sentiment being expressed by somebody.
they still suck.
Opinions, assholes, etc.
What I've learned is that when you hate something, you really hate something and will prosecute anyone who might actually like that something to the fullest extent of your vocabulary.
― Johnny Fever, Saturday, 1 December 2012 14:27 (eleven years ago) link
The whole pop/indie binary debate feels kind of redundant any given that neither side can feel hard done by when you consider the dozens of genres that get little or no play in these things at all.
True. Alt-J really do suck, though.
when white dudes with thrift store suits and beards mine r&b for new directions
what is not eyeroll-worthy about this entire concept though
Well, what is? If your problem is entirely about the implications of white people appropriating a traditionally black musical culture, then I can understand it to a certain degree (the whole discussion on that particular matter is way too long for me to try to summarise here, though). If it's about the beards and thrift store suits, then you do realise that's shorthand to conjure up the dreaded straw man spectre of 'hipster', right? And actually neither beards nor clothes from charity shops are eyeroll-worthy in themselves (well, maybe beards...). But genre pilfering and combining has a long history and is responsible for some of the most interesting shifts in music there have been. If you find that eyeroll-worthy then your musical conservatism is just too insane to comprehend.
― emil.y, Saturday, 1 December 2012 15:27 (eleven years ago) link
(well, maybe beards...)
As a beard-wearing human being, I am offended. :P
― Johnny Fever, Saturday, 1 December 2012 15:43 (eleven years ago) link
me too. Harumph.
― EZ Snappin, Saturday, 1 December 2012 15:48 (eleven years ago) link
white rock musicians drew heavily on R&B and other black musicians for decades, rock music becoming its own white indie echo chamber is a relatively recent development. it's when they want a pat on the back for incorporating R&B influences or build their entire public persona on it that it becomes corny and tedious.
― trinidad jokes (some dude), Saturday, 1 December 2012 15:50 (eleven years ago) link
Reviewers and PR people ruin a lot of things before honest opinions about some bands and albums can even be formed. I keep using Gayngs as my example, but before I ever heard a note of that record I knew all about the "hipster r&b" aspect of it and constantly had to downplay that stigma in my mind while listening. If that hadn't been put there in the first place, I probably wouldn't even have drawn such a conclusion.
― Johnny Fever, Saturday, 1 December 2012 15:53 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, but that's usually a problem with critical discourse around the band/artist, though, not nec. the band/artist themselves.
xpost
― emil.y, Saturday, 1 December 2012 15:53 (eleven years ago) link
no artists are definitely overtly marketing themselves that way
― trinidad jokes (some dude), Saturday, 1 December 2012 15:56 (eleven years ago) link
i mean not all of them obviously, but definitely some
― trinidad jokes (some dude), Saturday, 1 December 2012 15:57 (eleven years ago) link
]i don't know if this is true for the early days of uk funky, given how much it drew on house music with impeccable sound design!
― #YOLO ONO (lex pretend), Friday, November 30, 2012 7:58 AM Bookmark
The point isn't that it didn't have good sound design, but that it didn't seem overly focused on it as a pursuit in itself.
― these bitches is my sons and i make dad jokes (The Reverend), Friday, November 30, 2012 9:51 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I think Rev is correct on this one. Even the "glossy" and "classy" aspects of uk funky were directly opposed to the qualities that tend to be associated with "good sound design" in dance music today, even leaving aside that there's an implicit anti-retro assumption to "good sound design" (which, if it is present in retro-leaning music, is always the modernist/contemporary twist on whatever else is going on). The point being that "sound design" is a loaded term, suggesting qualities which, even if not actively disruptive, distract the listener away from the (mere) operation/progression of the groove or the song. If dance music has sound design which is essentially ignorable (even if glossy/classy/tastefully executed) then I don't think of it as meriting the term.
Julio Bashmore's "Au Seve" is 2012's model: crisp, tactile, a perfect house tune that sounds a lot nicer to me than most of Bashmore's previous work but could never be accused of investing in "good sound design".
In the case of Voices From The Lake the pendulum is swung pretty hard towards sound design and away from groove/song in the sense that it's difficult to frame the album as anything other than a "listening experience".
― Tim F, Saturday, 1 December 2012 21:22 (eleven years ago) link
i still think of booka shade as the ne plus ultra of sound design
― #YOLO ONO (lex pretend), Saturday, 1 December 2012 21:48 (eleven years ago) link
distract the listener away from the (mere) operation/progression of the groove or the song
and i don't think booka shade's sound design did this at all
― #YOLO ONO (lex pretend), Saturday, 1 December 2012 21:49 (eleven years ago) link
I would totally agree that prime Get Physical was a case of everything coming together so well that it's difficult to separate out these qualities. But I don't think that disproves what I'm saying b/c if Get Physical had an explicit purpose (in its early days) it was precisely to blur the distinction between "efficient" dance music and sumptuous production.
Which certainly means they indulged in these tendencies in a manner far more subtle than say Herbert or Luciano or Isolee (though it's easy to forget that Booka Shade's first album was much more deep and less cheerfully anthemic than Movements - see "Vertigo" for example, a wealth of little rustles and ear-tickling sounds to get lost in), but still, if you can get lost in the details of the production then you're not just focusing on the groove/song. Glossiness in an early Crazi Cousinz tune is not something you can get "lost" in. Whereas Get Physical's sound design calls attention to itself - forces itself into the listener's consciousness - even while playing the role of power behind the (groove's) throne so consummately.
To be clear I'm certainly not suggesting some zero sum game where sound design is always at the expense of groove primacy, more that "good sound design" encourages a mode of listening focused on "good sound design", it's not incidental to the groove.
― Tim F, Saturday, 1 December 2012 22:03 (eleven years ago) link
I think of minimal as one of those genres in general where sound design and groove really came together, functional music that was all about finding new ways to make the space in the room and the space between sounds really work. It helped that most of these producers were making tracks with Berghain or Fabric-level sound systems in mind.
Meanwhile a lot of post-dubstep in particular seems to value sound design over groove in the way that's to its detriment. Although Martyn's 'Ghost People' led to me wonder whether I'd have got more out of eg Night Slugs if they'd been better at sound design.
Whereas with funky a track could sound cheap as hell and it just didn't matter because the grooves and hooks and songs were just so irresistible. It didn't fanny around, basically.
― Matt DC, Sunday, 2 December 2012 10:35 (eleven years ago) link
really quite impressive sound design, i said to myself while fashioning a noose
― r|t|c, Friday, 21 September 2012 12:02 (2 months ago) Bookmark
― r|t|c, Sunday, 2 December 2012 23:08 (eleven years ago) link
I know that Rate Your Music is polarizing to say the least, but here's the top 100 albums according to them (at least, as of this post):
1. Swans - The Seer2. Kendrick Lamar - good kid, m.A.A.d city3. Max Richter - Recomposed: Vivaldi - The Four Seasons4. Godspeed You! Black Emperor - 'Allelujah! Don't Bend! Ascend!5. Grizzly Bear - Shields6. Converge - All We Love We Leave Behind7. Fiona Apple - The Idler Wheel…8. Enslaved - RIITIIR9. Between the Buried and Me - The Parallax II: Future Sequence10. Tame Impala - Lonerism11. Deftones - Koi no Yokan12. Beach House - Bloom13. Killer Mike - R.A.P. Music14. Dead Can Dance - Anastasis15. Scott Walker - Bish Bosch16. Ne Obliviscaris - Portal of I17. Änglagård - Viljans öga18. Neil Young - Psychedelic Pill19. Frank Ocean - Channel Orange20. Dr. John - Locked Down21. Anathema - Weather Systems22. Rush - Clockwork Angels23. Andy Stott - Luxury Problems24. Aesop Rock - Skelethon25. Dordeduh - Dar de duh26. Kälter - Ubuntu27. Wintersun - Time I28. The Tallest Man on Earth - There's No Leaving Now29. Threshold - March of Progress30. Be'lakor - Of Breath and Bone31. Jonny Greenwood - The Master32. Flying Lotus - Until the Quiet Comes33. Bob Dylan - Tempest34. Death Grips - The Money Store35. Kamelot - Silverthorn36. Testament - Dark Roots of Earth37. Om - Advaitic Songs38. Big Big Train - English Electric (Part One)39. ∆ - An Awesome Wave40. AtomA - Skylight41. Aluk Todolo - Occult Rock42. El-P - Cancer 4 Cure43. Spiritualized - Sweet Heart Sweet Light44. Overkill - The Electric Age45. Shackleton - Music for the Quiet Hour / The Drawbar Organ EPs46. Mgła - With Hearts Toward None47. Wadada Leo Smith - Ten Freedom Summers48. Borknagar - Urd49. Blut aus Nord - 777 - Cosmosophy50. Accept - Stalingrad51. Aeternam - Moongod52. iamamiwhoami - kin53. Goat - World Music54. Diablo Swing Orchestra - Pandora's Piñata55. In Mourning - The Weight of Oceans56. Various Artists - Moonrise Kingdom57. Circus Maximus - Nine58. High on Fire - De Vermis Mysteriis59. Macklemore and Ryan Lewis - The Heist60. Steven Wilson - Get All You Deserve61. Clams Casino - Instrumentals 262. Cloud Nothings - Attack on Memory63. John Talabot - ƒIN64. Donald Fagen - Sunken Condos65. BADBADNOTGOOD - BBNG266. Raime - Quarter Turns Over a Living Line67. Killing Joke - MMXII68. Jack White - Blunderbuss69. Sigh - In Somniphobia70. Mount Eerie - Clear Moon71. Nas - Life Is Good72. Devin Townsend - Epicloud73. A Forest of Stars - A Shadowplay for Yesterdays74. Colour Haze - She Said75. Paradise Lost - Tragic Idol76. Dying Fetus - Reign Supreme77. The Flower Kings - Banks of Eden78. Evoken - Atra Mors79. Orden Ogan - To the End80. Tindersticks - The Something Rain81. Japandroids - Celebration Rock82. Lee Fields - Faithful Man83. Ty Segall & White Fence - Hair84. Neneh Cherry & The Thing - The Cherry Thing85. The Faceless - Autotheism86. Galneryus - Angel of Salvation87. Thee Oh Sees - Putrifiers II88. mewithoutYou - Ten Stories89. Steve Hackett - Genesis Revisited II90. Kreator - Phantom Antichrist91. Thank You Scientist - Maps of Non-Existent Places92. Katatonia - Dead End Kings93. Arjen Anthony Lucassen - Lost in the New Real94. Spawn of Possession - Incurso95. Chris Robinson Brotherhood - Big Moon Ritual96. Anaal Nathrakh - Vanitas97. The Gathering - Disclosure98. Sigur Rós - Valtari99. Headspace - I Am Anonymous100. Caspian - Waking Season
― Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Monday, 3 December 2012 07:38 (eleven years ago) link
(Was debating listing all 1000 just to see Whiney annotate it.)
― Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Monday, 3 December 2012 07:39 (eleven years ago) link
Matt otm
― Tim F, Monday, 3 December 2012 07:52 (eleven years ago) link
tbh there are def some ways in which our list will def differ from the rym one (Dawn Richard and Miguel will be top 5, Goat will be way higher) but I would be p happy if ILM albums list resembled that as a whole
― in a year with thirteen goons (Drugs A. Money), Monday, 3 December 2012 08:22 (eleven years ago) link
whats the Dr John album like?
― in a year with thirteen goons (Drugs A. Money), Monday, 3 December 2012 08:23 (eleven years ago) link
Is "sound design" in dance what we rockists call "arrangements"?
― Manfred Mann meets Man Parrish (ithappens), Monday, 3 December 2012 09:19 (eleven years ago) link
RYM list looks pretty okay to me.
Done a lot of catch-up listening this weekend:
Alabama Shakes - Retro blues-rock int he style of the BellRays. Could stray to the wrong side of pastiche (the singer has one of those voices) if it wasn't so well executed.
Chairlift - Yeah, I've been listening to bits of it all year but never all the way through. Some of the vocal melodies on here are just wonderful; maybe yet another take on the eighties, this time reminiscent (i.e. pinched) from the Mac or the Pretenders or even some early-90s Beats International/Soul II Soul type thing, but somehow never boring. It always heartens me when a band who released a just-okay debut come back with a first-class follow-up.
Swans - So yeah, I finally discovered and fell in love with this album a couple of weeks back but listening to the acoustic demoes gives a whole new insight into this album.
― make like a steak and beef (dog latin), Monday, 3 December 2012 09:29 (eleven years ago) link
Fuckin' MAGNET's:http://www.magnetmagazine.com/category/best-of-2012/
Best Of 2012: World MusicMAGNET’s j. poet picks the best world-music releases of the year.
1 TriBeCaStan New Deli (Evergreen)2 Balkan Beat Box Give (National Geographic)3 Taraf De Haïdouks & Kocani Orkestar Band Of Gypsies 2 (Crammed Discs)4 Chicha Libre Canibalismo (Barbés/Crammed Discs)5 Samite Trust (Musicians For World Harmony)6 The Spy From Cairo Arabadub (Wonderwheel)7 Wahid Road Poem (BMP Blouzo)8 New York Gypsy All Stars Romantech (Traditional Crossroads)9 Bang Data La Sopa (rOckOliTo)10 Zdob Si Zdub Basta Mafia! (Asphalt Tango)
Best Of 2012: NoiseMAGNET’s Raymond Cummings picks the best noise releases of the year.
1 Penny Royale This Town (Sleepy Hollows Editions)2 Grasshopper The Day America Forgot (SicSic)3 Mike Shiflet Merciless (Type)4 Pauline Oliveros Reverberations: Tape & Electronic Music 1961-1970 (Important)5 Natural Snow Buildings Night Coercion Into The Company Of Witches (Ba Da Bing)6 Pacific 231 Scuffle (Nostalgie De La Boue)7 Various Artists Compilation For A Cat (no label)8 Neptune msg rcvd (Northern Spy)9 Marta Zapparoli Codex (Zeromoon)10 Lightning Bolt Oblivion Hunters (Load)
Best Of 2012: Hip HopMAGNET’s Elliott Sharp picks the best hip-hop releases of the year.
1 Kendrick Lamar Good Kid, m.A.A.d City (Interscope/Aftermath/Top Dawg)2 E-40 The Block Brochure: Welcome To The Soil 1, 2 & 3 (Heavy On The Grind)3 Future Pluto (Epic/A1/Free Bandz)4 Ab-Soul Control System (Top Dawg)5 Killer Mike R.A.P. Music (William Street)6 IamSu! Kilt (Dat Piff DL)7 Action Bronson Blue Chips (Fool’s Gold)8 Aesop Rock Skelethon (Rhymesayers)9 Main Attrakionz Bossalinis & Fooliyones (Young One)10 Big K.R.I.T. Live From The Underground (Island Def Jam/Cinematic)
― Albert Crampus (NickB), Monday, 3 December 2012 10:02 (eleven years ago) link
Alex Ross's best classical albums in the New Yorker:http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2012/11/ten-notable-classical-music-recordings-of-2012.html
― Albert Crampus (NickB), Monday, 3 December 2012 10:03 (eleven years ago) link
Wire albums list news:
Hyperdub @HyperdubLaurel Halo #1, Dean and Inga #17, Cooly G # 41, DVA # 49 in the best albums of the year in @thewiremagazine - thankyou!
Anyone seen the full list?
― Albert Crampus (NickB), Monday, 3 December 2012 10:59 (eleven years ago) link
A little surprised to see Basta Mafia in the Magnet top ten, it's far from Zdob Si Zdub's best work. It's pretty good though.
― Go Narine, Go! (ShariVari), Monday, 3 December 2012 11:02 (eleven years ago) link
lmao laurel halo #1
poor senile old dorks scammed two years in a row
― r|t|c, Monday, 3 December 2012 11:18 (eleven years ago) link
lololololol
dean & inga copeland is nearly as bad
― #YOLO ONO (lex pretend), Monday, 3 December 2012 11:20 (eleven years ago) link
listening to this Purity Ring album for the first time. not really sure if i'm slowly starting to like it or if my critical faculties are working overtime and preventing me from quite yielding. also listened to the Goat album earlier and can say that i dig it.
these lists always strike me as weird. just seems a bit arbitrary to me to get fanatical about ordering things before the dust has truly settled. if there's logic and a rigourous protocol to the numbering, then it's kind of lost on me. i can get behind the one (Decibel?) that had Converge at number one though.
― charlie h, Monday, 3 December 2012 12:02 (eleven years ago) link
Lol, that noise list would be diff if I made it now!
― Raymond Cummings, Monday, 3 December 2012 12:03 (eleven years ago) link
Not by too much, but still
― Raymond Cummings, Monday, 3 December 2012 12:04 (eleven years ago) link
I like the queasy sub-aquatic feel of the Laurel Halo record. It's very collage-like and there aren't lots of obvious hooks, but the textures and the layering and whole weird way it's lit work really well for me.
End of year lists are having a slight but noticeable effect on the UK album charts: Goat #27, Grimes #35http://www.officialcharts.com/record-store-albums-chart/
― Albert Crampus (NickB), Monday, 3 December 2012 12:07 (eleven years ago) link
Raymond: great to see Natural Snow Buildings on yr list!
― Albert Crampus (NickB), Monday, 3 December 2012 12:10 (eleven years ago) link
didn't know there was a new Neptune record, cool
― an area the size of Jimmy Wales (DJ Mencap), Monday, 3 December 2012 12:17 (eleven years ago) link
that's p cool about the Goat album racing up the charts. I think Tame Impala are also seeing that effect.
― Neil S, Monday, 3 December 2012 12:25 (eleven years ago) link
Tame Impala is actually on its way down though!
― Albert Crampus (NickB), Monday, 3 December 2012 12:32 (eleven years ago) link
Django Django otoh is a new entry @ 22
― Albert Crampus (NickB), Monday, 3 December 2012 12:33 (eleven years ago) link
...and that's been out for months and months right?
ah okay, obv didn't pay enough attention. I guess that Tame Impala record hasn't been out so long so might be dropping after its first promo push.
― Neil S, Monday, 3 December 2012 12:34 (eleven years ago) link
I despise Alex Ross, but here are his notable classical releases of 2012
Feldman is the only release worthy of note for historical reasons.
― xyzzzz__, Monday, 3 December 2012 12:36 (eleven years ago) link
FACTmag begins...
http://www.factmag.com/2012/12/03/the-50-best-albums-of-2012/
― Albert Crampus (NickB), Monday, 3 December 2012 13:01 (eleven years ago) link
hope u liek clicking
― Albert Crampus (NickB), Monday, 3 December 2012 13:02 (eleven years ago) link
Dummy have started their top 10 albums too, but it looks like they're being really slowcore about it and doing them one at a time. Good news for all you Dean & Inga fans:
http://dummymag.com/features/2012/12/03/10-dean-blunt-and-inga-copeland-black-is-beautiful/
― Albert Crampus (NickB), Monday, 3 December 2012 13:21 (eleven years ago) link
haha so far my takeaway from the FACT list is "huh, I should be reading FACT"
― I loves you, PORGI (DJP), Monday, 3 December 2012 15:09 (eleven years ago) link
note to self: never pay attention to FACT ever again
― OH NOES, Friday, 16 December 2011 17:46 (11 months ago)
― Matt DC, Monday, 3 December 2012 15:12 (eleven years ago) link
Not listened to the Purity Ring album before. Kinda like Crystal Castles without the shouty noise?
xp haha
― Albert Crampus (NickB), Monday, 3 December 2012 15:13 (eleven years ago) link
I am apparently the exact opposite person of who I was in 2011
― I loves you, PORGI (DJP), Monday, 3 December 2012 15:13 (eleven years ago) link
I tend to think of Purity Ring as some weird intersection between CREEP and a flesh-eating fairy princess
― I loves you, PORGI (DJP), Monday, 3 December 2012 15:15 (eleven years ago) link
Vice:
50. Someone who's just been signed.
49. Someone who's already been dropped.
48. Rapper who has done things that would make Chris Brown cut off his dick in shame, but because they're not to anyone famous, they still count towards his grizzled street cred with Pitchfork readers who are too scared and confused by WSHH to get their news from source.
47. Whatever Thom Yorke has blessed this year.
46. "Never heard of it."
45. "I've heard of it, but not actually gotten around to hearing it yet."
44. "Worst thing I've ever heard."
43. Kendrick Lamar.
42. Band who mistakenly believed they'd be given a big post-Olympics popularity boost by their very public decision to tell Danny Boyle and his Opening Ceremony to go fuck themselves.
41. Artist whose raw public confession of homosexuality wasn't quite as good as Frank Ocean's because he had the misfortune not to work in a genre that hates gays.
40. Peaking Lights
39. Woman compared to Kate Bush because of key overlaps: 1) being a woman, 2) singing, 3) giving the impression that she has difficulty coping with life.
38. Woman praised in copy for "striking a blow for modern femininity", a blow that so far consists of making mediocre indie-pop about past boyfriends.
37. Mac DeMarco
36. Album that everyone suddenly seems to be talking about like they've been into it for ages, despite the fact that you've never heard anyone other than the Quietus say a damned word about it, and never will again after 31 December.
35 – 31. Five acts who have all slept with someone who has slept with Swim Deep.
30. People voting for Django Django who meant to vote for Alt-J.
29. People voting for Alt-J who meant to vote for Django Django.
28. Act who changed name and moved to Montreal to make deep house two years after changing name and moving to Brooklyn to make witch garage two years after moving to Portland to make Apple advert indie.
27. Band who had the good fortune to be alphabetised in everyone's iTunes immediately after Grimes, leading to crucial "left it running" plays.
26. The much-feted return of a "living legend" who, despite enjoying a good feting, has mainly spent the past few months praying that no one finds out what happened in his Top Of The Pops dressing room in March 1973.
25. A "shadowy" post-dubstep producer, who spends his days cold-calling pensioners on behalf of EDF Energy.
24. Artist whom music journalists have decided to love because their former career as a journalist means that there's still hope for everyone's thwarted and stalled creative ambitions, #GodGetMeOutOfThisWakingNightmare.
23. Something on Not Not Fun that was recorded in a pristine, state of the art studio – in which the band were playing next door in the bogs for that authentic lo-fi sound.
22. Someone who might have been in Odd Future, but trying to deny it now.
21. Canadians making Canadian Music.
20. Toy
19. A bunch of super-smart, snot-nosed, wet behind the balls students whose lyrics seem to infer that they have had sexual intercourse, whereas one listen to the way they sing them confirms that they surely haven't.
18. Album that writer breathlessly describes as having "deconstructed pop", but which simply reflects the fact that said writer doesn't listen to much pop nowadays and is astonished at genre-blending that anyone with a working knowledge of Radio 1 will have long since taken as standard.
17. Beach House
16. Someone who once shared a cab with Kevin Parker.
15. Band who have released an "amusingly arch" record that they'd be mortified to hear described as such, because in fact they were being deadly serious and are just incredibly pretentious.
14. Bob Dylan or Leonard Cohen
13. Fiona Apple or Cat Power
12. Dirty Projectors or David Byrne
11. "Sun-dappled dream-popper" who in truth only ever dreams about killing animals with a spade.
10. The xx or Chromatics
9. Album whose appraisal involved the editor having to do a ctrl+F to make damn sure she'd rooted out every last appearance of the word "shimmering".
8. Space reserved for old black legend being rebooted for modern coffee tables by Richard Russell.
7 – 2. The six highest-ranking albums of the year on Pitchfork that lazy hacks swotted up on to obscure the fact that they basically spent 2012 listening to nothing but real music, i.e. Muse and The Vaccines.
1. Album Of The Year: Mumfords (Q), Kendrick Lamar Spector (NME), Sven Vath (Mixmag), Andy Stott (Resident Advisor), Neil Young (Uncut), Neil Young (Mojo), Neil Young (Classic Rock), Neil Young (Home & Garden), people humming transcendentally over distorted tape loops of concrete being laid (The Wire).
― Matt DC, Monday, 3 December 2012 15:34 (eleven years ago) link