Taylor Swift - RED - October 22

nothing's inconsequential

Starlight is horrible. Lyrically, musically. Just horrible.

This is really good though, and i say that as someone who's never listened to a Taylor Swift album before. "All Too Well" is stunning

I cringed at "Starlight" the first many times through -- not the tune, which is fine, but the lyrics and the whole Kennedy thing, which just seems off in every possible way. But damn if it isn't the song that keeps popping up in my head the last few days. Still wish she'd record a generic non-Kennedy version.

Though on the other hand her willingness to overreach and be embarrassing is part of what makes her interesting, I guess.

What Kennedy thing?

The whole song's about Bobby and Ethel Kennedy.

I was wondering about the summer of '45 thing

Apparently it was actually a ski trip in winter of 44 or something, and Bobby was 20 not 17, but poetic license etc. I don't care about the details, the song just doesn't work for me as any kind of historical romance. (I really hope there's not an Abe-Mary Todd song on the next record.)

might be alone here but she hasn't written a more assured chorus than the one in "Starlight." The Shania Twain guitar chug seals it.

Yup, that's the part that won't stay out of my head.

yeah the first verse is so clumsy and stumbles over itself getting out, but from then on it's a juggernaut

I didn't realize it was inspired by the Kennedies. Nothing actually textual in there except "Bobby", so you can't really call it "about" them. I had figured it was about her grandparents, as a part of her whole examination of the family through multigenerational perspectives thing ("The Best Day", "Never Grow Up"). I guess it could still be part of that.

i still don't know how she gets away with going so freeform on "red" and still making every line as hooky as on her most regimented, formula-following songs

My older daughter seems less than taken with the album, but I'm curious what more time with it will do.

Me, when I finally heard this, I appreciated Swift's personality a bit more than usual, which helped cut through the dross. Though I'm not sure I got any more out of it than I do, say, Michelle Branch. Who I don't mind.

Iirc that's what you thought about her past albums too so whatevz

Her least impressive album but I can't stop jamming to "Starlight."

^^^

I just do not get people who think this is in any way substandard even by Taylor's standards

Her least impressive album but I can't stop jamming to "Starlight."

― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, December 6, 2012 12:50 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark

agreed but i'd substitute a few others songs in there

It's easy: I dislike every Max Martin collaboration. Their sensibilities, which seem similar, don't mesh. It's like giving a highstrung person a cup of coffee and a line of coke.

I haven't really caught onto the second half of the album yet beyond "Begin Again" but I'll take the first half over her first two albums

There are, what, 3 Max Martin collabs? Even if you remove those and the duets you still have tons of amazing songs!

The highs are high but I'm less able to stomach the weaker tracks on this one.

There are, what, 3 Max Martin collabs? Even if you remove those and the duets you still have tons of amazing songs!

I'd also eliminate Snow Patrol and Sheeran collabs, "22," "Red." That's what, seven tracks? I know I"m missing a couple That's a B or B- record.

(I have 100% come over to We Are Never..., such a year-defining song with the lyric of 2012. On board for the Swift culture warz, on board for her Mean Girl-ing indie boys)

Xp how do you even get rid of the flawless "Red"

yeah i think it's a patchy record... the coffee/coke thing is a good analogy but i think the max collabs work. personally i think it's the more bread & butter taylor songs that just aren't as good as the last few albums (with a few exceptions)

"red" would be the best song on the album but that synth tone is so cheap & bad i can never get over it

this is not a front-to-back record, even speak now reached that level on some days

have you ever given a highstrung person bread and butter?

that synth tone is so cheap & bad i can never get over it

^^^^^

this is not a front-to-back record, even speak now reached that level on some days

― 乒乓, Thursday, December 6, 2012 1:18 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

this too

I don't think any of her albums are front-to-back in their entirety, and with all of them I tend to fixate on the flawless tracks even at the expense of the merely very good ones, and I don't think any of those ratios are much different on Red to her other albums. The opening run of nine is unfuckwithable

fearless is front-to-back killer, speak now is insanely good for a while but then begins to tail off but i think this one is totally all over the place in terms of slotting

yeah fearless is still the banner.

lex, Speak Now is front to back.

'we are never ever getting back together' and '22' stand out as such gear shifts

if you listen to "Red" and "Starlight" back to back, the latter sounds like an improved version of the former (same chords, similar melody).

i was just completely stunned to discover speak now was longer than this one

this one feels like melon collie

hay everybody i had no idea this happened

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_Swift_and_Def_Leppard

yup. and i love RED more than these guys, but the hit to miss ratio is certainly different here.

fearless is perfect, pretty much. maybe one song i don't ~love~.

speak now has Innocent/Haunted which I don't love but they're two tracks in a pretty killer back half.

Holy Ground/Starlight/Begin Again are the only ones in the back 7 that stand up against anything else off Speak Now (and I actually kind of like the Ed Sheeran duet :S )

i was just completely stunned to discover speak now was longer than this one

― difficult listening hour, Thursday, December 6, 2012 1:25 PM (38 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this one feels like melon collie

― difficult listening hour, Thursday, December 6, 2012 1:25 PM (25 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

truth

lex, "melon collie" is a smashing pumpkins album

Not with Better Than Revenge and The Story Of Us it's not

I find it really difficult to compare what she's doing now to Fearless, for several reasons

Xps

like. i dunno. if you put 'Sad Beautiful Tragic' against either heartbreak waltz on Speak Now it just seems so obvious? the chorus alone is just....limp.

compare that to last kiss which is over a minute longer but sustains the narrative tension allll the way through.

in ways that are maybe even better than All Too Well?

I find it really difficult to compare what she's doing now to Fearless, for several reasons

this is fair, too

i still think it's a step down from speak now tho

Story of Us is a perfect Taylor power-pop song. Right up there with I'm Only Me When I'm With You.

Better Than Revenge is... uncomfortable... for a variety of reasons, but re: her delivery and musically it's pretty great.

anyway, this is a narcissism of small differences for me. I'm with you re: the first 9. I just think Speak Now didn't drop off nearly as starkly as this does.

you know what, I'm fine with taylor being a great singles artist from now on as opposed to a great albums artist. the highs are just as high