Britpop : Time For Reevaluation?

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Seriously, I have to fucking REVIEW the NME in my job as radio station music assistant manager. Reading the single reviews, I ask myself: are they taking the fucking piss? Music journalism is NOTHING LIKE this, this is stream-of-consciousness moron-fodder idiocy that name-drops other artists every other fucking sentence, seriously how the FUCK do they get away with it?

― unfished business, Friday, 9 March 2007 12:54 (nineteen years ago)

>> the indie scene in the States is strikingly healthy compared to the zero-track-minded gumph coming out in the UK.

This has probably been true for the last 20 years. [/yankophile]

― Colonel Poo, Friday, 9 March 2007 12:55 (nineteen years ago)

Across the pond at least you've got the whole Noise/psych scene and freakfolk and other bands who don't really fit into a category but are at least trying to do something a bit different - the indie scene in the States is strikingly healthy compared to the zero-track-minded gumph coming out in the UK.

There are tons of bands in the UK who are making good and interesting music that doesn't fit into a category. I don't which respective nation's bands you have in mind here, but it seems like you're going down a pretty reductive road with this line of thinking

― DJ Mencap, Friday, 9 March 2007 12:56 (nineteen years ago)

A few of those bands are quote 'riding on Postrock's tatty coattails', yes, but they've all put their distinctive spin on it. Oceansize for instance combine post-rock, progressive, electronic, pop, and metal until there really isn't a detectable genre present. Which is the way forward IMO.

Haven't heard Oceansize yet. Your description has set off certain alarm bells though in the fear that this band will flaunt their so-called eclecticism in a bit of a tired way, forgetting to master the styles they're trying to combine while simultaneously forgetting to innovate at the same time... That's perhaps unfair since I haven't heard them yet, but I'll say this about 65DOS (who are a great band and great people too so I feel bad about criticising) that their new material is going to have to do more than sound like a pleasing mishmash of Squarepusher and Mogwai. From what I've heard about Youthmovies is they're trying awesomely hard to be Gospeed Y.B.E! And while there's nothing wrong with that, where is the UK's Animal Collective? Where are the Lightning Bolts and Black Dices and Joanna Newsoms and Devendra Banharts and Decemberists? Say what you will about these bands but at least they have a fairly unique sound to them and I think that's more important these days than going "it's a rock band - but we use drumloops too, it's bloody mental!".

― the next grozart, Friday, 9 March 2007 12:57 (nineteen years ago)

This has probably been true for the last 20 years. [/yankophile]

Don't really agree with this either. The nineties were an exceptional time for UK pop music and as far as the more challenging stuff is concerned, the UK has led the way in many other styles up until about five years ago what with Warp Records etc.

― the next grozart, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:00 (nineteen years ago)

And can I say at this point I've got that annoying "RUBY RUBY RUBY RUBY" song going on in my head and it's making me want to stick unfolded paperclips into my eyes.

― the next grozart, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:01 (nineteen years ago)

Youthmovies is they're trying awesomely hard to be Gospeed Y.B.E!

Someone is bullshitting you, this is so untrue it's laughable. They're basically math-prog with awesome singalong choruses and the occasional free-form sax solo. And great riffs!

Oceansize, fear ye not, are fucking fantastic at integrating all their influences into one coherent whole. This doesn't preclude their music from being very varied, but IMO they pull off almost everything they try with flying colours. Get Effloresce, it's probably the best album of the 00's. YA RLY

― unfished business, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:01 (nineteen years ago)

Okay I will. I'll give Youthmovies another try too (even though that's one of the worst names for a band ever),

― the next grozart, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:03 (nineteen years ago)

The Beta Band were our Animal Collective, they got there first, they were better, and they died before they grew stale. :P

― unfished business, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:04 (nineteen years ago)

and if there's one band that wanted to be GY!BE it was Hope Of The States, but they also wanted to be trendy-indie Britpop so they FAILED MISERABLY.

― unfished business, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:06 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah I can see what you mean - they're not the same band at all but they had their philosophical similarities. But what I'm saying Louis is exactly that - the Beta Band split up in, what? 1999? It shows that the UK isn't bereft of imagination but is simply being elbowed out by generic indie rock stuff which is always being held up by the NME as the "best/most important/most talked about band this year/week/day", so obviously there is a perverse power held by this magazine over a large amount of music writing in the country and so music sales reflect that.

― the next grozart, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:09 (nineteen years ago)

xpost to your previous AC/BB comparisoon.

― the next grozart, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:10 (nineteen years ago)

Although I must say I have a lot of respect for some of the more outspoken ILMers (i.e. Geir, Lex, Snrub) because despite perhaps not fitting well with the rest of the clan taste-wise, it's great fun hearing their points of view.

― the next grozart, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:12 (nineteen years ago)

British music is all about James Blackshaw for me at the moment. But there's plenty of "weird folk/noise bands" in the uk now.

And you can buy it all from Volcanic Tongue in Glasgow(or mail order) or have a read at Foxy Digitalis.

Anyway i never understood this "we should buy british stuff" I don't give a shit where it comes from. Being from UK/Scotland doesn't make it any better for me. Finland and New Zealand have some awesome music just now. All that matters is that it's good music. The actual bands may differ between us, but I agree with The Lex, when he says it doesn't matter where the music comes from.
It only matters to NME because if its UK bands they can get interviews easier.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:14 (nineteen years ago)

oh and JESU piss allover most things around just now. Wheres the NME and Kerrang front covers?

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:16 (nineteen years ago)

Funnily enough a lot of the forward thinking music is being made by guitars over in that rather large genre known as Metal.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:17 (nineteen years ago)

I don't mind where the music comes from either, but since I live here I'd like to be able to read something that calls itself "New Musical Express" without retching up all over it. There's very little going on in the mainstream music press other than the NME (when it comes to rock/indie of course) and so they have a monopoly on what is critically acclaimed and what is ignored. This is really really stifling and it means that homegrown talent can never flourish if all that is allowed to exist are default indie rock groups.

― the next grozart, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:19 (nineteen years ago)

If they made The Lex editor things would change.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:20 (nineteen years ago)

it's great fun hearing their points of view.

surely this only lasts so many years/months/minutes re Geir. such a defiant but pointless broken record most of the time. i guess it'll always seem novel if you're new to ILM tho.

― blueski, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:22 (nineteen years ago)

Principally the circulation figures.

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:22 (nineteen years ago)

(xpost)

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:23 (nineteen years ago)

oh lord, i forgot jesu. :-/

Kerr is right, metal is in many ways right at the forefront of musical innovation. *puts on The Wildhearts' Sky Babies, which sounds unbelievably fresh for 1995*

Also, The Beta Band themselves WERE NME front-page news at one point. Then they made 'The Beta Band' (i.e. they chose MUSIC not HYPE) and NME dropped 'em like a stone. They eventually passed away in 2004.

― unfished business, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:23 (nineteen years ago)

the Beta Band split up in, what? 1999?

three years ago

― blueski, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:25 (nineteen years ago)

aaliyah and destiny's child were nme cover stars, once.

though my attitude is no longer "nme should be putting X and Y on the front cover", more that "i hope nme ceases to exist while artists X and Y take over the world without it"

― lex pretend, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:25 (nineteen years ago)

a) which innovative metal bands are British again?

b) how is it innovative?

― blueski, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:26 (nineteen years ago)

those are genuine questions out of curiosity btw

― blueski, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:26 (nineteen years ago)

I remember the Melody Maker letters page when 2 Unlimited were on the cover.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:27 (nineteen years ago)

I wrote the bloody Melody Maker letters page when 2 Unlimited were on the cover!

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:29 (nineteen years ago)

I knew they weren't real people writing in.

― blueski, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:31 (nineteen years ago)

How many were from geir?

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:40 (nineteen years ago)

a) which innovative metal bands are British again?

DJ Martian to thread!

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:41 (nineteen years ago)

good questions, blueski. i thought the majority of decent metal bands were American or European no?

― the next grozart, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:43 (nineteen years ago)

I never said they were british.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:44 (nineteen years ago)

Well yeah, I'm not denying the existence of innovation in Metal, Dance, or even US Alternative stuff, just the UK indie and rock scene in general

― the next grozart, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:46 (nineteen years ago)

Just the NME :)

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:48 (nineteen years ago)

I was trying to think of some genuinely decent forward-thinking and innovative guitar-based music from the UK in the last 5 years and was very hard pushed

Since the mid 80s, the best music has never been neither innovative nor forward thinking. However, there are still great tunes, with great verses, great choruses, great bridges, great middle-eights. At least in music that isn't "innovative". And that is a lot more important.

― Geir Hongro, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:48 (nineteen years ago)

― djmartian, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:56 (nineteen years ago)

I'm trying to think if there was ever a time when American bands were ever so unabashedly jingoistic as their Britpop brothers.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:57 (nineteen years ago)

http://bluestormmusic.com/store/images/grandfunk-wereanamerican.jpg

― Tom D., Friday, 9 March 2007 13:59 (nineteen years ago)

X-post
Bato isn't in a band.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 14:05 (nineteen years ago)

actually in terms of innovation British metal in the 00s has been lacking, however these are amongst the elite

Akercocke
Anaal Nathrakh
Axis of Perdition
Earthtone 9
Esoteric
Frost [half brits half norsk]

so how are they innovating?

does it work like 4/4 dance music where the big progression this decade has been on increased sense of space and depth, technical intricacy beyond the 'surfaces' of tracks, minimal-complex etc. - are these same ideas being applied to Metal by these bands? or something else?

― blueski, Friday, 9 March 2007 14:19 (nineteen years ago)

To be honest most of the time I don't really notice where a bands from. Perhaps that's because I cant always find interviews (apart from maybe Rockarolla) so i have no idea where they are from.

Some good brit bands/acts around just now ...hmmm
Jesu
Holy McGrail
Atavist
Skullflower
Ashtray Navigations
James Blackshaw
The Heads
Electric Wizard
Moss
Sickoakes

I haven't heard The Lords or Crippled Black Phoenix albums yet so I can't judge them.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 14:20 (nineteen years ago)

"oh and JESU piss allover most things around just now. Wheres the NME and Kerrang front covers?"

http://a420.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/40/m_82070278bb95f67298a9618760e3399b.gif

― scott seward, Friday, 9 March 2007 14:21 (nineteen years ago)

my analysis of British (& some Irish) from the recent past. Overall British music in recent times has been lacking in numbers i.e quantity of quality in terms of talent.
.
What may be the contributing factors?

the post Peel era of a more conservative Radio 1
Xfm generic rubbish / with a very conservative format
6 Music completely underperforming with dull radio programming ruled on behalf of pluggers
Useless established print media and no effective and different weekly competition for NME and Kerrang
Increasing fragmentation of self contained music scenes
No interesting music on mainstream TV, e.g another snoring boring series of the jools holland show

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/djmartian/mercury_music_prize_2006

Some Eligible Albums for the Mercury Music Prize 2006. i.e British or Irish Artists who released an album between July 25th 2005 and July 17th 2006.

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/djmartian/mercury_music_prize_2005

Some Eligible Albums for the Mercury Music Prize 2005. i.e British or Irish Artists who released an album between July 26th 2004 and July 18th 2005.

― djmartian, Friday, 9 March 2007 14:22 (nineteen years ago)

How does Justin Broadrick look so young*? He's been around forever?

* He is young
Well, under 40 anyway.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 14:31 (nineteen years ago)

another slant, Norway has a population of under 5 Million, 12 times smaller than the UK - and is punching way above it's comparative size in a wide range of music genres.

as demonstrated by their national music promotion portal

MIC Norway
http://www.mic.no/english

Why is Norway performing so well culturally in the 00s?
Why are their musicians willing to be more creative?
Does a smaller country facilitate music to thrive more easily compared to other larger European countries?

― djmartian, Friday, 9 March 2007 14:54 (nineteen years ago)

the next grozart OTM

I moan about Pitchfork too, but IRL that message, that the US (not to forget other places but particularly w/r/t US indie vs UK indie) wipes the floor with most of our (Britishes) efforts is v.much what I've been expressing to my friends for, years now.

And yeah, the Klaxons embodying the sudden appearance of "omg thinking outside THE RULES fisher price my first experimental pop/rock band" as some kind of belated antidote/apology for the last half decade of dour, dopey conservative mediocrity is just tragic when something like that Marnie Stern album just absolutely FLATTENS teh Klaxons for excitement, freshness and pure giddy RAWK fun.

I don't care for almost ANY of Louis suggestions sadly :( (not even Beta Band and esp. not SFA ugh).

― fandango, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:03 (nineteen years ago)

Because of Geir!

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:03 (nineteen years ago)

the nebulous post-electroclash/post-DFA/Ed Banger/Indieclash thing suddenly getting "New Rave" as a nom de plume, just in case it was in any danger of going somewhere interesting, less retro, more creative is ... kind of irritating.

― fandango, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:08 (nineteen years ago)

Guys, this is moaning and self-pity is bullshit, and gets on my nerves. In the USA Nickelback sold 5 million records, not the Animal Collective or Joanna Newsom. There are dozens of good artists in the UK who are actually not generic indie, from Patrick Wolf to Electrelane and so on. Lock this thread, please.

― zeus, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:15 (nineteen years ago)

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