Defend the indefensible - Bob Dylan.

BOB DYLAN WAS A HERO TO MY PARENTS' GENERATION BUT HE NEVER MEANT SHIT TO ME

mf him and history mayne

Ballad in Plain D is shitty mean. from the wiki:

Dylan, when asked in 1985 if he had any regrets about "Ballad In Plain D", replied: "Oh yeah, that one! I look back and say "I must have been a real schmuck to write that." I look back at that particular one and say, of all the songs I've written, maybe I could have left that alone."

that story upthread about the cops not knowing who bob dylan was is like something out of a bob dylan song.

'like a rolling stone' kind of transcends ordinary meanness; the sound is so exuberant and generous and full that i can't really hear it as a hateful song. whereas 'idiot wind' feels genuinely spiteful and petty and uncomfortable, like listening in on somebody's worst argument with their spouse.

That's exactly why I omitted it. I interpreted Dylannesque "meanness" as a pinched, sour lack of generosity, the more I think about it. "Positively 4th Street" is in the "Like a Rolling Stone" category, while "Is Your Love in Vain" and "Gotta Serve Somebody" and "Neighborhood" are in the former.

Do you think there's any song you could name that us haters might enjoy? I have tried, but I just don't hear the good in there. I just hear boring music with self-absorbed, extra-boring singing on top of it. I want to UNDERSTAND what you're on about

some of the best mean ones are indeed the you're-going-to-hell ones; they're like deliberately funny chick tracts. some kind of decadent philistine fortune-telling prostitute in "foot of pride":

she'll do wondrous works with your fate
she'll feed you coconut bread
spice buns
in bed
IF YOU DON'T MIND SLEEPIN WITH YOUR HEAD FACE DOWN IN THE PLATE!!!

there's a lot of bitterness in "someday baby" (WHEN I HEARD YOU WAS COLD / I BOUGHT YOU A COAT AND HAT / I THINK YOU MUST HAVE FORGOTTEN BOUT THAT) even if i don't think he actually breaks up w you.

ultimate "idiot wind" version meanwise is the one from hard rain, where sara is in the audience and he just ladles sarcasm upon "and it makes me feel SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SORRY."

"gotta serve somebody" makes perfect sense as the first track on his first christian album: it's an explanation.

It's a splutter.

It's not "mean" in the personal sense a lot of you are going with, but "Masters of War" is pretty vicious:

And I hope that you die
And your death’ll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I’ll watch while you’re lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I’ll stand o’er your grave
’Til I’m sure that you’re dead

Dag.

And of course, preceding it:

Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul

Masters of War was the song that turned me into a Dylan freak. The hair on my neck stood up first time I heard it, and my mind was blown. This song is not funny, but a lot of Dylan stuff is very funny and it's one of the things I've come to like best about his stuff.

Upthread Bob Shaw mentioned Dylan's delivery. He has superb delivery, though he's not what I call a "technical singer". The only thing indefensible about Dylan is the goddam harp.

I think of "She's Your Lover Now" as a pretty mean song, probably because it alternates nasty asides to her current flame ("And I see you're still with her, well / She'll be standing on the bar soon, with a fishhead and a harpoon / You'd better do something quick ...") with sad sincere regretful memories ("Your mouth used to be so naked, your tears used to be so few").

"Idiot Wind" does this too, some of it is beautifully wistful but then "I can't even touch the books you read," damn.

idiot wind is pretty mean, but he does turn it back on himself at the end there -- "we're idiots, babe"

and YOU -- you just sit around and ask for ASHTRAYS; can't you REACH?

haha, one of the best lines. that whole song is so amazing.

Where to put this ... ?

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/1961l9kkpz4iujpg/ku-bigpic.jpg

The Welding Minstrel

bob dylan is one busy 73-year-old.

"Mmm...this is how Lou did it, right?"

Don't tempt fate there

Bob Dylan will outlive every musician of note save Ringo.

When I Fabricate My Masterpiece

He had good album closers imo

I would probably swap Restless Farewell and I'll Be Your Baby Tonight with Cats in the Well and Wedding Song. What do you have against Don't Fall Apart on Me Tonight?

I love Roll on John.

man is that JFK song awful

Meant to add about Roll on John: but then I don't really think of it as a personal response to John Lennon's death, so much as an elegy for a historical tragedy like "Tempest" and now "Murder Most Foul." It reminds me a bit of Kipling's "A St. Helena Lullaby."

I like that he goes back from the Titanic to the docks of Liverpool, and just keeps rollin' on, encouraging/acknowledging Jawhn, his fellow figure, through the streets of history.

Meant to add about Roll on John: but then I don't really think of it as a personal response to John Lennon's death, so much as an elegy for a historical tragedy like "Tempest" and now "Murder Most Foul." It reminds me a bit of Kipling's "A St. Helena Lullaby."

― The fillyjonk who believed in pandemics (Lily Dale)

but worse

I give him points for doing it at all. (Dylan, not Kipling; fuck that guy.)

i kinda love highlands, kinda love that whole album though

"i'll be your baby tonight" is probably my favorite of these. the way that the mood gradually changes over the course of that album -- from some of bob's bleakest songs to some of his most genuinely upbeat and joyful -- never fails to amaze me.

I thought Saved and Shot of Love were both better listens than their rep. They kinda rock at points.

I mean, yeah, they’re both awesome! (is that not their rep?)

I kind of thought they were supposed to be critically considered some of Dylan's worst records.

To be fair, I did not sit and read the lyrics. It is not some of Bob's clearest diction on some of the tunes too.

I always the Xtian themes were not appreciated at the time and the music a bit of a mash.

There are definitely some Dylan tunes with backing vocal treatments that get weird, but I thought the backing vocals on these were pretty good.

It's probably the production era, but the music was a bit more rocked up guitar wise. I guess that is Fred Tackett playing some of those leads.

their rep is that they're a terrible joke. I even have a christian friend who's a dylan fan who thinks that. truth is they RULE quite hard.

so many Bob Dylan threads, thought I'd post this one in the thread that had the most appropriate subject line for the situation

https://www.tmz.com/2021/08/16/bob-dylan-sued-sexual-abuse-assault-groomed-sex-12-year-old-girl-1965/

Very brave to charge after 56 years, I cannot imagine the pain it must have been during all these years.

Flagged

Oh god I read that as being sarcastic sorry.

I'm surprised this isn't a bigger story - at least not on my social media TLs, don't know about any of yours but no one seems to be talking about it here so I guess it's not just me?

is it everything else going on in the world? I saw some people who were actually talking about it bring up some evidence via his touring history or something that he couldn't have done it? idk

uh idk it's all over my Twitter feed

it's also a story that broke at night

Dud

Have you heard his version of "Vogue," map?

evidence via his touring history or something that he couldn't have done it? idk

The complaint says the abuse happened btw. April & May 1965. Looks like Dylan was on the West Coast for chunks of April, and then the UK through at least May 12. That timeline doesn’t rule it out, I guess. It’s a pretty extraordinary claim. Beyond the allegations in the complaint and the denial by Dylan’s team, nothing else really to go on at the moment (unless similar allegations have surfaced in the past to support it).

Thanks for that info. Twitter seems to have decided to restrict access so I can no longer read through Twitter threads without logging into an account.

I just did my own digging now; others may know or have found more.

I'm generally seeing it everywhere. For comparison's sake, Sting was sued for statutory rape months ago, and I didn't see it nearly as much.

I'm not seeing too much gossip or immediate presumptions of either guilt or blackmail, which is probably for the best. Dylan could very well be guilty, but for many reasons it will be extraordinary if these allegations can be proven - as mentioned, this was a time when he was very visible, incredibly active professionally and publicly, and his day-to-day activities were pretty much tracked by obsessive fans.