rolling regional thug thread 2012

big pun actually got caught on camera pistol-whipping a woman. did u have these ~complicated feelings~ when listening to pun?

I mean the answer is 'yes' for me & probably for you too but im just saying, this isnt some new thing its the same horrible shit that has been happening

but now we're confusing wires, bc hip hop doesnt actually celebrate this kind of shit -- beating a woman is (i hope??) still not really all that fucking cool to anyone whereas homicide & drug dealing still are ostensibly at least in the context of the music

to me, a lot of this shit is as likely to make me reconsider the shit that ~isnt~ 'real' but still talks about a lot of gun talk & shit like that. it just makes it feel really inappropriate & ridiculous. it raises the bar as far as the uniqueness required for me to enjoy rap music that is so violent. etc. I mean i was never a big gibbs fan or w/e -- not saying he's fake, just that there's something that doesnt really impact me about it that does exist for keef n them, that makes its gun porn that much less appealing to me.

i'll agree that it's important not to act like this is only happening in hip hop but that hardly leaves the music community blameless if this kinda shit is treated as SOS especially if it's used as fucking marketing material

― let's have sex and then throw pottery (forksclovetofu), Thursday, October 25, 2012 2:54 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i dont think ppl are about to market him as a woman-beater. id bet my ass Def Jam drops him

to me, a lot of this shit is as likely to make me reconsider the shit that ~isnt~ 'real' but still talks about a lot of gun talk & shit like that. it just makes it feel really inappropriate & ridiculous. it raises the bar as far as the uniqueness required for me to enjoy rap music that is so violent. etc. I mean i was never a big gibbs fan or w/e -- not saying he's fake, just that there's something that doesnt really impact me about it that does exist for keef n them, that makes its gun porn that much less appealing to me.

― fanute da croupier (D-40), Thursday, October 25, 2012 2:57 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i realize theres a lot here im not quite unpacking. isnt 'real' = aesthetically unconvincing & novel & some other stuff too

Well, Gibbs paints himself as the worst scumbag of all time, but because it's so obviously artful and syllable packed, the moral flag isn't waved.
Keef and them have a primitive, brutal sound, and so when real life brutality wells up in its wake people (understandably) shy away from the aesthetics as well. I try to keep the two as separated as I can myself, hence "queasy middle class rap aesthete".

big pun actually got caught on camera pistol-whipping a woman. did u have these ~complicated feelings~ when listening to pun?

i mean, i was younger then and felt different i guess, i dunno. tbh having a kid kinda changed (for me) the way i see a lot of this stuff, it's a lot harder not to see them as kids, and now like keef is young enough and i'm old enough for him to *be* my kid...& having a little girls it's harder to not think about stuff differently or feel differently about it.

deej my point was that it's been the same shit for years, before big pun...dre & dee barnes, etc....

it's almost like a super depressing groundhog's day that i kinda feel like not watching anymore.

i haven't really thought about gibbs for awhile, seems like he's kinda gone now anyway right?

i think its not that its obviously 'artful' its that its obviously constructed? in that case, doesnt it fail at its intended goal?

it's almost like a super depressing groundhog's day that i kinda feel like not watching anymore.

― seasonal hugs (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, October 25, 2012 3:12 PM (42 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah i totally get this & am not mad at it

i mean, writing abt this now i feel an extra responsibility to cover it the right way, esp since 'coverage' feels more like 'broadcasting' than ever before for me. just by giving air time ur sorta endorsing it. w/ blogging i was never worried that the miniscule readership i had was going to imitate the art or w/e

i think its not that its obviously 'artful' its that its obviously constructed? in that case, doesnt it fail at its intended goal?

― fanute da croupier (D-40), Thursday, October 25, 2012 9:13 PM (45 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

What's the difference between artful and constructed again?

something can be artful and constructed but it doesn't have to be artful to be constructed

saying gibbs traffics in established musical approaches (established by others) rather than breaking novel artistic ground, i wd consider keef more 'artful' in this sense

part of the conundrum of gangster rap is the artfulness is located in how it conveys reality in new ways which feels like a paradox or contradiction or something

that 'reality' should have scare quotes around it -- more like fantastical-realism or something

idk i never majored in english

Hmmm. Not sure if I agree. I get that Gibbs feels more... conventional than Keef. A lot of people are trying to paint Keef as a generic artist but he definitely doesn't sound like anyone else.
But I think it's more about a.... sense of transcendence through art than anything else, really. Like, there's very little transcendence in Gibbs thematically, but the very fact that he raps so well (fast, syllable packed flow, gritty narration filled with details, observer as much as he is a participant, etc) gives the impression that he can in some sense redeem what he talks about by rising above it - in and through art.

Keef on the other hand is... cyclical. He's caught up in the cycle, and his simple style feels cyclical and representative of the mentality he raps about. There's no escape - just the same thing over and over again. And that scares people. (I think it was pretty much the same thing with Gucci a few years ago).

If you look at that Chicago piece that was linked to above, it's all about transcendence through art - and this new "art" that isn't interested in transcending anything.
This one: http://wohhiphop.wordpress.com/2012/09/18/chief-keef-my-lovehate-relationship-with-chicago/

in other news this track is a fucking banger http://soundcloud.com/thehbkgang/mobbin

new iamsu!

lmao

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQNgDwTUfWk

i'm kind of into that

yeah it's really dope. on his mixtape 'wordplay' that just dropped

dude had one of the verses of the year on 'plain jane' rilly

Rocko is kind of underrated. How's the tape though?

hmmm

i feel like i have a clowning at the hands of some dude coming to me for my recent emo posts....what's up buddy? you ok?

Hmmm. Not sure if I agree. I get that Gibbs feels more... conventional than Keef. A lot of people are trying to paint Keef as a generic artist but he definitely doesn't sound like anyone else.
But I think it's more about a.... sense of transcendence through art than anything else, really. Like, there's very little transcendence in Gibbs thematically, but the very fact that he raps so well (fast, syllable packed flow, gritty narration filled with details, observer as much as he is a participant, etc) gives the impression that he can in some sense redeem what he talks about by rising above it - in and through art.

Keef on the other hand is... cyclical. He's caught up in the cycle, and his simple style feels cyclical and representative of the mentality he raps about. There's no escape - just the same thing over and over again. And that scares people. (I think it was pretty much the same thing with Gucci a few years ago).

If you look at that Chicago piece that was linked to above, it's all about transcendence through art - and this new "art" that isn't interested in transcending anything.
This one: http://wohhiphop.wordpress.com/2012/09/18/chief-keef-my-lovehate-relationship-with-chicago/

― O-Jah Da Lionmane (longneck), Thursday, October 25, 2012 3:36 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

to me there is zero transcendent abt that 'technique'

whats the pt of 'rap[ping] so well' if its ultimately not rlly moving me to feel differently abt it, its just kind of ... pointless

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OGW-LOFH1s

this is so dope

yes i said that about a song w/ a pusha t verse

shoulda been jada but w/e

whats the pt of 'rapping so well' if its ultimately not rlly moving me to feel differently abt it, its just kind of ... pointless

― fanute da croupier (D-40), Thursday, October 25, 2012 11:03 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think the question is framed wrong. It's not about what's moving you - it's about why so many people are comfortable with Gibbs but get scared/uncomfortable by Keef.

And I really don't want to spend time writing an essay on Gibbs unless someone is paying me for it - I haven't even bothered listening to his newest album/tape yet, even though I think Bout It Bout It is Gibbs' best song in a very long time and would probably make it onto my year end list. But I'll try to say something brief:

When Gibbs, on his second Bout It Bout It verse raps "Grind till you put your moms in a new spot / On the block with the bomb it was too hot/On the block with the bomb it was so cold/ Sellin dope in the snow until my toes froze" - it is obviously "constructed" - with the hot cold dichotomy used in a clever way that brings attention to itself as a construction. There's also the shifting perspective from bar to bar: the conventional get-moms-a-new-house-motif moving to the rather impersonal hot/cold dichotomy that suddenly homes in on the refreshing detail of the freezing toes that suddenly makes the scene seem felt/experienced. Gibbs's perspective, his ability to see things from afar and then to zoom in such details establishes the verse as art, transcending the thing itself through a certain distance and a certain freedom of perspective: I was there, I know what it feels like - but now I can finally present it as a scene, seen from the outside. And that "technique" ultimately legitimizes the immoral subject matter: this is a report from reality, not the glorification of it. The resigned tone of the hook builds up under that too. Also, the way Gibbs squeezes syllables into his bars give off an impression of stoic urgency: there's so much that needs to be told.

So Gibbs is the rapper as intelligent reporter/prophet, showing us what we are spared from on the daily but which happens all the time. That's his ethos. You can of course argue that it's already been told a million times before, but I'd still say that this is a big part of Gibbs' appeal to rappity rap people. He transcends what he's rapping about through his style of rapping.

Now Keef doesn't do stuff like that. He embodies and celebrates his lifestyle, obliterating every distancing technique in sight. He's not interested in telling us about those cold toes - he wants money and guns to keep him warm. That is partly what makes it exciting, I think. And it's a new (?) technique rather than the absence of technique. When the old legitimizing techniques are discarded we suddenly feel like we're as close to the thing itself as it's possible to be. It's definitely limited - and limiting in respect to how Keef can possibly develop as an artist from this chosen technique. But it feels fresh and stimulating, what you refer to as "artful", I believe.

But it's also notable that when we write about Keef in the media, we tend to assume a kind of Gibbs-like role of the-reporter-of-things-as-they-are, using our status as eloquent outsiders to legitimize Keef's music and casting him as some sort of witness who is important yet tied to a particular perspective so that he does not see or understand the whole scene. So when Keef doesn't legitimate his art, that job kinda falls on the people who are writing about him and his music in a way that doesn't feel relevant with an artist like Gibbs, who does the job for us.

lol

heard a chunk of the Meek album when they were playing it on the radio, sounded fine to me. whether or not it's good it bums me out that dude is gonna get buried for dropping a week after Kendrick. less bummed that A$AP Rocky's album will be even more buried, if it's still even dropping that day.

finally listening to Trap God, man i just can't get w/ nu Gucci that's basically aesthetically indistinguishable from a Yo Gotti record, dude used to have a lot more personality in his music and wasn't so trap-centric to the exclusion of everything else.

i actually like pusha on the king l[property of disney]

i don't think rocky is dropping next week

i'm with you on new gucci, al. his music really lacks color now... it's almost preemptively defensive, way less funny than it used to be. 'trap god' remedies all that ever so slightly, but yeah.

This struck me as interesting:

http://www.djservicepack.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/week-oct-24.png

Berner - Urban Farmer

^^combination of this artist/mixtape title is fucking amazing

Ha ha. Gotta love Berner. The weed carrier's weed grower.

damn, even Pusha-T's good on that King Louie

when's Dope and Shrimp dropping?

i don't really think that song is that hot *shrugs*

i should got back to my "end to end berners" dn name in honor

did you guys listen to the angel haze track? you really really should.

it basically left me reeling for about an hour each time i've listened to it (twice).

or to put it another way: i can't think of many tracks with that powerful an impact in any genre.

Which of them? The whole EP is great imo. But I'm assuming you mean Cleaning Out My Closet? It is pretty incredible yeah.

jesus, that kinda made me nauseous

not a good song w/a hangover

it's really fucking brave

no it's very affecting just didn't know what i was getting into

it's interesting that she chose that eminem song, too - explicitly linking herself to hip-hop's confessional tradition (which is kinda...niche, certainly at such a personal level?) but also an artist who frequently used sexual violence as a punchline

not sure how many lurkers there are but they have a donation page up for Stef/P.O.S. of Doomtree's kidney operation:

http://www.youcaring.com/fundraiser_details?url=stefneedsanewkidney&fundraiser_id=12371

Berner - Urban Farmer

^^combination of this artist/mixtape title is fucking amazing

i can only hear it in this voice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YDyjOimInA

xp

it's interesting that she chose that eminem song, too - explicitly linking herself to hip-hop's confessional tradition (which is kinda...niche, certainly at such a personal level?) but also an artist who frequently used sexual violence as a punchline

― lex pretend, Friday, October 26, 2012 5:46 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Not only that, the Eminem song is all righteous narcissism - and her song is about having your sense of self shattered. She totally turns the tables on the "male" songs on Classikz - Her Bitch Bad is about how it affects a young boy to see his father beat up his mother, etc. It feels like a much needed intervention.

shit is super hard to listen to.

it's fucking good though