2013 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame nominees are in and...

there's like 800 modest-selling critical darlings in line ahead of her, though

i mean "Nirvana, Green Day, Smashing Pumpkins, Pearl Jam, PJ Havey" is just a hilarious 'one of these things is not like the others' sequence

Donna Summer, Chic, all fair enough but if disco acts are eligible/credible/rock and roll enough for this now, when are disco's two biggest/best selling acts Boney M and Modern Talking eligible?

you know the Hall of Fame is located in America, right

Heart, Kraftwerk, Meters, Public Enemy, Rush if I were king.

Well if Abba is in...

Abba's huge in America. Modern Talking have never had a gold record or even a charting single in America.

Can't pin that one on Marsh; he loved them

haha – no he didn't

when are disco's two biggest/best selling acts Boney M and Modern Talking eligible?

^literally have never heard of either of these artists.

his entry on "Over You" in his singles book is five hundred words of condescension and nose-holding.

...wherein he talked about how much he dug "Do The Strand" and "Over You" (hence it's placement in the book).

Which is to say, if Roxy's being kept out, Marsh wouldn't/couldn't be the single deciding factor (certainly not anywhere close to the extent that he's keeping Kiss out).

He discussed how much "Do The Strand" and "Over You" were exceptions in a "dessicated" (I think that was the word) catalog.

Donna Summer might get sympathy votes.

xp I took it as more that he was (in a shoehorny way) equating Roxy with, say, King Crimson, and positing those two songs as exceptions to "art rock," rather than exceptions in Roxy's catalog.

you know the Hall of Fame is located in America, right

A key point. A British HOF would have some noticeable differences--T. Rex, Slade, the Jam, Nick Drake, etc.

laura nyro was just inducted i don't see why PJ harvey is an impossibility

Nyro was inducted after being eligible for 20 years, at which point the bones of the late '60s were being picked pretty dry. And I'll be kinda surprised if they start honoring cult heroes of the '90s like they did ones of the '60s. I guess I can revive this thread in 2036 to say "I told you so" but I'm gonna feel terrible if either of you guys are dead.

I'm not sure about this, but my guess is that Nyro was inducted more as a songwriter than a performer...but I think there's some kind of HOF for songwriters, too, which is why I'm not sure.

yeah it's no lock. but i think there's some nexus of longrunning career/being a woman/being from england/iconic of the "alt rock" movement/playing guitar/respectable blues/led zep influences in early stuff that might make her more likely than not with the rolling stone voting bloc type ppl

yeah, i realize that invariably a LOT will change about the HOF institution and its membership over the next decade or two. my point still stands that jaymc including her in the litany of multi-platinum arena rockers is funny, though.

at which point the bones of the late '60s were being picked pretty dry

They're STILL picking them dry if the Paul Butterfield Blues Band and Procol Harum nomination is any indication. And it is.

I'm not sure about this, but my guess is that Nyro was inducted more as a songwriter than a performer...but I think there's some kind of HOF for songwriters, too, which is why I'm not sure.

The RnRHoF's categories are performer, sideman, early influence, and non-performer. They're all kind of loose; Freddie King was inducted as an "early influence" despite his recorded debut (as a leader) coming in 1960. Songwriters and business folks are lumped in under "non-performer," hence Syd Nathan rubbing shoulders with Doc Pomus. "Sideman" includes producers now.

Nyro was inducted as a performer.

i found some rrhof website that had a list of artists who've been nominated and not made it, and how many times they were nominated. also listed who was on nomination committee each year. anyhow by and large if you make the nominations you're very very very likely to eventually get in, esp if nominated multiple times. there are some exceptions - gram parsons was nominated three times and didn't get in and hasn't been nominated in a while - but by and large if you're on that ballot enough you get in. two huge exceptions to this: donna summer, who's been nominated like six or seven times, and chic, who've been nominated like seven or eight times. can't blame nominating committee, there's a definite anti-disco bias in the electorate. curious to see how rush does, i could imagine them facing more resistance from committee than electorate; you've had artists in the past who somehow never got nominated for years and then first time nominated get elected.

Who the fuck is Laura Nyro

bill she was a stone fox with the voice of an angel

she co-wrote all sabbaths best songs and kicked Christgau in the nuts for his bad reviews

she wrote Stoned Soul Picnic, Bill! STONED SOUL PICNIC.

She also wrote this which is a stone classic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkMhWQgkZ8c

Who the fuck is Laura Nyro

― One Way Ticket on the 1277 Express (Bill Magill), Friday, October 5, 2012 4:30 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTc4Njg3Mjc3MF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwOTQ2Mjg2Nw@@._V1._SY314_CR9,0,214,314_.jpg

"Ay whodduh fuck ah you, pal? You betta shut the fuck up about my mudduh"

by 2036 we can only hope the RRHOF in cleveland is a parking lot and the induction ceremony is staged in dave marsh's nursing-home room simulcast on cable access.

Objection, we do not need more surface parking in Cleveland. We can sink it into the lake and create an artificial reef. Great Lakes Science Center is right next door so it will be perfect.

Donna Summer, Chic, all fair enough but if disco acts are eligible/credible/rock and roll enough for this now, when are disco's two biggest/best selling acts Boney M and Modern Talking eligible?

― Siegbran, Friday, October 5, 2012 2:47 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you know the Hall of Fame is located in America, right

― some dude, Friday, October 5, 2012 2:49 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I lol'd

I have never even heard of Modern Talking. Boney M never had a hit in America iirc

oh wait one of their songs reached No. 30 once. wow

Some dude, I cede your point about the incongruity of including PJ Harvey w/the arena rockers.

But as M@tt suggests, she's more than just a "cult hero of the '90s" -- it's not like she's the British Liz Phair. The fact that she's been around for 20 years now and is still making critically acclaimed/"important" records counts for something. Ditto the blues lineage. I see similarities to someone like Patti Smith.

i found some rrhof website that had a list of artists who've been nominated and not made it, and how many times they were nominated.

http://www.futurerocklegends.com/previously_considered.php

So basically, the artists who've been nominated 3+ times w/o getting inducted: Chic (7), Chuck Willis (6), Donna Summer (5), Joe Tex (4), Ben E. King (3), J. Geils Band (3), and Gram Parsons (3).

Always thought it odd that J. Geils Band got so much nomination love, but I basically only know them as the band that did "Centerfold."

I see similarities to someone like Patti Smith.

^^yeah that's a perfect comparison

better overall career than patti smith too

For a while there, J. Geils Band was like the band for the pre-Boss set. If anything, "Centerfield" was the end of that run.

Good for Rush. I wonder who would give their introduction speech? Would they participate in the night-ending jam? Would we get, like, Steven Tyler singer Tom Sawyer with, like, Chuck D. interjecting?

pj harvey's not as never gonna happen as husker du or pavement but it should be noted that borderline or cult acts that got in like laura nyro or tom waits or leonard cohen or patti smith were super super familiar to boomers. jann wenner has heard an album by all of them. he has a take on all of them. it will take substantive change in makeup of nominating committee and electorate for someone like pj harvey to have a shot in hell.

i mean you guys realize that roxy music and t rex have never even been nominated right?

Laura Nyro is in the Songwriters Hall of Fame too. Inducted 2010. The Rock Hall put her in as a performer last year.

pj harvey's not as never gonna happen as husker du or pavement

Husker Du and Pavement both fail the Sonic Youth question: are you more significant than Sonic Youth, whom the HOF has shown no desire to even nominate? With PJ Harvey I wouldn't necessarily assume the answer was no.

This was the second poll I ever put up on here:

The Bert Blyleven Poll

My own feeling, stated then and still, is that Sonic Youth and Husker Du will both eventually be in there. (Within 10-15 years, say.) I didn't include Pavement in the poll, which was mostly based on Azerrad's book, but my guess is that they'd follow at some point. PJ Harvey, I don't know, because of the American tilt. If it were a straight rock-critic's HOF, she'd make it for sure.

Yeah, I agree with the results of that poll, tbh.

at which point the bones of the late '60s were being picked pretty dry

They're STILL picking them dry if the Paul Butterfield Blues Band and Procol Harum nomination is any indication. And it is.

So, if the baby boom had happened in the 50s, 80s, 90s or 00s, who would be the Paul Butterfield and Procol Harum worthy of a HoF nomination.

Not sure if I've ever heard PBBB, but I'm thinking their stature is somewhere around that of Hot Hot Heat from the last decade.

An interesting take:

Thing is, there are plenty of respected '80s and '90s bands that actually sold records to choose from, even if they weren't as good as most bands above. Like, I'd expect Los Lobos (who were better than some bands up above) and Jane's Addiction and Pearl Jam and Soundgarden to have a better shot than Sonic Youth, Huskers, X, etc. Hell, maybe even Living Colour and Midnight Oil have a better shot.

― xhuxk, Monday, May 4, 2009 12:20 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Like, is that true? I mean, Pearl Jam for sure. The others, I dunno! I kind of expect SY would trump most of the bands on seniority alone. Los Lobos is a weird one to consider -- because I know critics *loved* Los Lobos back in the day, but I seriously have never met a single person who listens to Los Lobos.

I'm white btw

Yeah, I think Chuck's off there. Pearl Jam, yes. But Los Lobos was a big critical thing for one album--and, commercially, they won't go into the HOF for a big-selling cover of a 30-year-old song. The rest of those bands, especially Living Color and Midnight Oil, seem like complete non-starters to me.

Sparks first two records

no room for rundgren or chic or thin lizzy or war when red hot chili peppers need display space.

Their socks don't take up that much room tho.

Wire should have their own wing, but they will never even come close to getting in.

Would definitely endorse Wire, but right, no chance. I'm not sure if another first-generation British punk band will get in after the Sex Pistols and the Clash. Speaking half-subjectively and half-objectively, I'd put in Wire, X-Ray Spex, maybe the Buzzcocks, and maybe the Mekons.

y'know, dave marsh's influence on this process has been widely noted. So is it not strange then that the MC5 ain't in? does Jann hold a grudge, and landau hasn't yet smoothed that out?

― veronica moser, Tuesday, December 11, 2012 6:12 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I wondered that myself. I think the fact that the Grateful Dead are in and the 5 are not answers the question about how much influence Marsh has. I think as one member of the nominating/voting(?) committee, there's only so much sway he can hold (ditto Landau lambasting the rest of the committee for not inducting Donna Summer earlier).

Oy, Randy Newman.

"Sail Away" jam could be problematic

Heart bringing 70s lineup:

[Ann] Wilson says the induction is expected to include the other members of Heart's "Dreamboat Annie" lineup, including guitarist Roger Fisher, bassist Steve Fossen, drummer Michael DeRosier, and longtime guitarist-keyboardist Howard Leese, an experience she expects to be "very unusual" given the romantic entanglements and interpersonal dynamics of that time. "It'll be kind of like getting together with your old aunts and uncles who you haven't seen for 30 years," Wilson says. "We haven't really kept in touch with those guys. It's been a long time. I still live in Seattle and most of them do, too, but our paths just don't cross."

i was quite pleased, and surprised, that hbo left room for three full randy newman performances. i was floored that hbo opened the show with them: "i love l.a.," then randy's induction, then "i think it's going to rain today" and "i'm dead (but i don't know it)." that's an audience-killing 20 minutes to start the show right there. but i quite liked it.

and a question about jennifer hudson: does she actually have a recording career anymore, or does she just perform on big tv and sports events? is it legal to have such an event and not invite her onstage? i am genuinely curious about this.