How much physical music (CDs, vinyl, minidiscs, cases ingles, whatever) have you bought so far this year?

so true, i only did when i first got an xbox. people used to just shout racial abuse terms over and over and over.

it could be sort of funny to join in (the game, not the racism) and say completely crazy shit if you had a friend with you. eg put on the weirdest irish accent of all time and have the room round on you.

i think the digitisation of music and music consumption has led to far MORE opportunities for communal, IRL musical experiences tbh. even just in terms of connecting with people who share your taste - dog latin's strawgeneration of teenagers shut in their bedrooms staring at their screens reminds me more of growing up in a pre-digital age, shut in my bedroom listening to björk because everyone i knew IRL thought she was weird. since i got online, discovering and sharing music has been facilitated in an inherently social way.

― lex pretend, Wednesday, 3 October 2012 14:20 (46 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

:-) this is an interesting counter-example. my experiences of discovering new music pre-web 2.0, pre-music geek phase, were almost entirely based on face-to-face and word-of-mouth recommendation, save for the odd magazine review - YMMV of course. A huge part of the way I and my friends got turned on to new sounds was by going round each other's houses and listening to each other's CDs, swapping tapes, lending albums, trips to the record shop after school etc. My feelings today are that I don't actually know what kind of music most of my friends are even listening to. I know they do - they all have iPods and Spotify etc, but other than in the case of a select few friends this aspect of their lives remains under the radar, confined to their hard drives and web personae. I'm more in tune with the music tastes of people online than IRL. And yeah, I could go and look up my friends' Like lists on FB, their Spotify and Last.FM playlists etc, but this feels like a terribly remote and joyless way of going about things.

I maintain that while Spotify, YouTube, Facebook, online articles and blogs (which are analogous to print media) are all great gateways into discovering new music, they represent a very different approach to browsing in record shops, borrowing CDs off friends, the visual draw of a particularly appealing album cover etc...

For people (like we Ilxors) who already make a point of reading music blogs and sites, it makes very little personal difference how we come to discover new music - the roadmap is already laid out for us; we know the methods and how to approach them and these have proved extremely useful as they open up myriad opportunities for online sharing and discussion. I'm speaking as someone who grew up in a small town but for whom running an online community for electronic musicians was a lifeline in the early 2000s when very few people I knew IRL shared my enthusiasm.

So it's easy for us to say "The information is out there - it's all over the web", which is true. But the web isn't like real life - it isn't as prone to happy accidents or chance encounters. Overhearing something amazing over a record shop tannoy or an impulse buy based on a particularly striking album cover, or a particular stand-out track on a mixtape made for you by a friend isn't the same thing as checking something out on Spotify because you read a review about it on TinyMixTapes.

We discuss music day-in day-out on this board and I can safely say it's my main source of new music recommendations. Elsewhere online I'm marketed to through PR mailers and irritating ads on Spotify, Youtube and Facebook which I will NEVER check out unless by some phenomenal fluke of force. I probably know about three-four people IRL who read Pitchfork and other music sites on any regular basis. I hear older generations decrying the current music scene as being "just Simon Cowell and X Factor" because that's pretty much the only music they ever encounter on TV and on supermarket shelves (the only place you can buy a physical format within several miles of my home is in the Top 20 rack in Sainsbury's).

So what's my point here? I guess I'm just slightly concerned that the shift from physical formats and face-to-face recommendation towards digital consumption and online sharing appeals to only a certain type of music fan. They have to be reasonably internet savvy for a start, have the patience to get online and start trawling through YouTube videos or review sites, maybe start reading blogs and messageboards etc. They have to be comfortable with the idea of downloading music, either from iTunes or a P2P network. They have to be cool with the idea that the music they consume is THEIR music, the emphasis on "i" in "iTunes" - only to leave their digital collection in the form of packets sent over the net.

In essence, the digital format is in danger of eluding the casual, more passive music listeners out there. When you think about the number of records and CDs that have been sold purely on the basis of impulse, that's a huge part of the music market. I wonder, were I the same age now as I was when I first starting getting into music, if the same passions could be instilled in me given that a lot of the IRL social pathways are slowly being moved to online, which by nature requires an active yet solitary approach to music seeking.

dog latin, you have to mark mixes as a compilation (select all the files, click on the "Options" tab on the track info editor, and select "Part of a compilation"). It also helps if you put an album artist in -- if you put Michael Mayer in there, then the album will show up under his name.

Cheers. I think I tried that and it didn't work. I'm assuming it's an error on Apple's part though.

the fact that your friends apparently never talk about music IRL is not the basis for a theory.

ILM and twitter have pretty neatly replaced my Pearl Jam loving friends.

personally there are many of my friends with whom I discuss music all the time, and it's true for almost all of my close friends. the fact that we can see what we're all listening to via Spotify shared on Facebook (or thisismyjam, or just by sending each other stuff at work by email, happens all the time.) guarantees a there'll always be some buzz about whatever the thing people are into at a given moment is.

there really is nothing inherent to the current climate that stops discussion, nothing whatsoever. it's a totally crazy theory apparently extrapolated from the behaviour of one person's peers.

i can think of groups of friends of mine who don't really discuss music, but it's because they aren't as interested in it as the ones that do, generally, or just sort of "know what they like" and there's no shared interests.

again, it's totally untied to format or technology, and the persistent arguments to the contrary presume far too much about how other people listen to music.

I wonder, were I the same age now as I was when I first starting getting into music, if the same passions could be instilled in me given that a lot of the IRL social pathways are slowly being moved to online, which by nature requires an active yet solitary approach to music seeking.

See, I've had the complete opposite reaction. I learned about some music from friends in high school, but once I started spending (way too much) time on the internet I ended up making some friends who would trade music with me. It was slow as hell, but we'd upload an album or two to a shared ftp site the friend had and go back and forth trading music picks. With things like the spotify social feature, last.fm, and people sharing music I've picked up on as many things as I ever did from friends previously.

For some reason I keep picturing dog latin's friends listening to records as some sort of movie scene where a character says "You have to really check out this record!", holds it up, puts it on the turntable, and the movie goes into some sort of reflective character montage.

Sorry dog latin, you might live in a Nick Hornby novel.

the fact that your friends apparently never talk about music IRL is not the basis for a theory.

― Know how Roo feel (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 3 October 2012 16:32 (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I could argue that it does, as today's music media make it harder for such discussions to arise. As I said upthread, the last time I can recall my casual-music-fan friends getting into a passionate conversation about music was when a vinyl record was put on, and I have reason to believe this was largely down to the medium, its tangibility and the overall accessibility of this format. But then I'm 32 years old on Friday, so I'm open to being proved that this conception among me and my friends is simply down to age. That said, there are a lot of people in this world who are older and less digital-savvy than me, so the complete annihilation of the shop-purchasable physical format would greatly affect them.

haha xpost

I could argue that it does, as today's music media make it harder for such discussions to arise.

point is can't prove the former simply cos your friends don't talk about music.

stories are nice.

I was going to say, people generally buy less music or get stuck in their tastes as they age! I don't think this is indicative of anything other than your friends not being as interested in new music at this point in their lives.

The complete annihilation of the shop-purchasable physical format won't happen until those people are dead or have changed their buying habits.

Most people in their mid-20s and below have essentially grown up with the web and/or mobile phones and their buying habits are completely different even if they're only casual listeners/ "Digital-savvy" is something only old people say.

iirc the stats for your average "casual listener" were always 1 - 2 albums bought per year! It's almost always been youth supporting album purchases, with the exception of certain releases that every old person bought as their album of the year -- see the ridiculous sales of things like the Eagles Greatest Hits collection

I've always been a bit of a loner when it comes to new music seeking due to a stirring combo of geographical isolation and only childness, and that hasn't changed over time, but at least now I can find SOME people to talk about new stuff with. For a long time I had no one except for my irl friends when they would humor me for an exchange or two, but not much more. Kinda sad it took so long, but at least in the internet age I can sort of talk about music with human people.

As for purchases this year, I have no idea -- I never keep track of when I buy things and I'm not about to do research but I'd say I scratch the itch for new/new-to-me music on at least a weekly basis? Buying records at a store or at a show is part of the entertainment value. OTM whoever said "this is one of the things I do for fun".

xpost exactly, i already made the point that if you look at the recently released best-sellers of the last 20 years, for physical formats, it's not exactly a ringing endorsement of physical music-buyers as some bastion of muted critics we need to bring back into the fold.

itunes facilitates casual impulse buying more than any past format ever

itunes facilitates casual impulse buying more than any past format ever

and beatport/phonica/juno etc.

and it's not "buying" but what could be more casual than spotify? a search engine for millions of albums.

again, stack it up and the truth is actually the reverse of what you're arguing, doglatin, that it's too easy to casually pick up music, that there's more discussion than it's possible to assimilate.

if anything

if only there was a place on the internet where people discussed music

a proposed law - if you don't talk about music IRL you prob don't talk about it online

if you do talk about music (or wish you did) IRL you probably do talk about it online

See, I've had the complete opposite reaction. I learned about some music from friends in high school, but once I started spending (way too much) time on the internet I ended up making some friends who would trade music with me. It was slow as hell, but we'd upload an album or two to a shared ftp site the friend had and go back and forth trading music picks. With things like the spotify social feature, last.fm, and people sharing music I've picked up on as many things as I ever did from friends previously.

ILM and twitter have pretty neatly replaced my Pearl Jam loving friends.

― comedy is unnatural and abhorrent (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 3 October 2012 16:38 (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is all very well - I have had similar experiences, but I still think it's kind of sad that all this has to happen over the web. I get your points, but it's kind of indicative of how far we've come when I'm gettin ribbed for saying "the other day we sat around and listened to a record" as though I represent some sort of anachronistic spluttering colonel or fictional Hollywood character from the 1960s, while everyone else says "I don't know what the fuss is about, my internet friends are much more fun and enlightening than my IRL friends, what's the problem?".

Y'all might disagree with me, but music for me isn't just about sound coming from a speaker or the loves and lives of the artists producing it. I love discussing music and talking about it online, but I also believe that there's more to music than this. It's the same reason I enjoy a pint of beer but find the majority of town hall beer festivals in the UK miss the point - here we have a big room with 1000 beers to try out, but no other form of entertainment - not even chairs to sit down in in many cases. So rather than using beer as a social lubricant, something to be supped in conversation or whilst dancing to music or watching a show of some sort, it is to be quaffed in a sort of standing hubbub. The ulterior joy of beer has been placed front-and-centre with all other stimulus removed. When people discuss music online, they are doing one thing. They are individually sitting at their computers talking about music, and I'm not convinced this should be the only way to go about things, or even the preferred way.

The complete annihilation of the shop-purchasable physical format won't happen until those people are dead or have changed their buying habits.

Record shops close down every day. In Last Shop Standing there was a statistic that said something like five years ago 2,800 independent record shops existed in the UK and this number has dwindled to 800. The HMV chain is in constant jeopardy and if it closes down, there'll be very little impetus for the music industry to continue producing physical formats in any major way.

Biggest digital-music-head I know is 43 and always emailing us about whatever foul-mouthed metal album he's got off emusic.

This is all very well - I have had similar experiences, but I still think it's kind of sad that all this has to happen over the web. I get your points, but it's kind of indicative of how far we've come when I'm gettin ribbed for saying "the other day we sat around and listened to a record" as though I represent some sort of anachronistic spluttering colonel or fictional Hollywood character from the 1960s, while everyone else says "I don't know what the fuss is about, my internet friends are much more fun and enlightening than my IRL friends, what's the problem?".

you're getting ribbed for extrapolating a theory which denigrates wide swathes modern culture from a highly specific personal and anecdotal instance.

nobody is disagreeing with fact that there were nice things about physical music's era.

i'm not even going to unpick the beer thing because it's heaping yet more insane confusion into this thread.

When people discuss music online, they are doing one thing. They are individually sitting at their computers talking about music

I like to think there are many many more people doing this now than were going into record shops on a regular basis 20 years ago.

Like others here I do doubt that online discussion reduces IRL discussion and indeed is more likely to facilitate it further.

So rather than using beer as a social lubricant, something to be supped in conversation or whilst dancing to music or watching a show of some sort, it is to be quaffed in a sort of standing hubbub

oh go on i'll bite, earlier in the thread you complained about "musical wallpaper", now you complain that people on the net are "only doing one thing" when they listen to music.

please just stop hurling illogical tumbleweed into the cosmos, you're actually hurting fairies.

Also surely the #1 method of music discovery... actually hearing it around. Pubs, clubs, shops, radio, anywhere. Things like Shazam are popular for a reason.

Like Anal Corpse Annihilation or whatever. Said the most moving song he'd ever heard was that piano cover of One Big Family by Embrace from the KFC add today. He's lovely but slightly crackers.

dog latin, I think you missed the part earlier where I said I've sat with friends and streamed an album to my stereo and talked about it with friends. With the cover art showing on my television, sometimes. No computers involved.

the idea that online music discussion somehow is done at the expense of offline music discussion, has no basis or theory behind it whatsoever. none, at least none yet offered here.

they don't even happen at the same times. is ilm full of uk posters on a saturday night or something? it's the most crazy "the net is stopping us from spending real time together" kneejerk shit you can get.

Had a great time fooling some very stoned guy into briefly thinking that I was RiFF RAFF whilst playing COD the other week.

I think we're trying to tell you to get new friends

is ilm full of uk posters on a saturday night or something?

actually don't answer that. let's discuss other sites.

Xpost I think I'm telling you Guys to maybe make some friends outside of your twitter feeds.

Well, that is a little harsh, but I think that what I mean is that your friends are possibly not in a part of their lives where they're discussing music, or they're discussing boring music and your picks aren't it?

xpost (sorry just rising to the snark)

I think the next time you're over, you should put an actual record on that's newer and see if they discuss it? We need a double-blind experiment, here.

Does it even need to be pointed out that you don't need to be "sitting at a computer" in order to consume or browse music over the internet in 2012? And millions of people aren't?

dl, without wanting to Ronan you, it seems like your mourning your teenage / early 20s lifestyle. You get older, people have less time, more responsibilities, you don't just hang out at mates houses in your 30s and skin up - I've literally not done that in 11 years, since finishing university. I barely ever see my friends from uni or per uni because we live in different places and have different interests. For ages I got all my music interaction online, and it's great, but yes, it leaves a whole.

But then we started this! http://devonrecordclub.wordpress.com/ with some like-minded buddies, and it's fucking wicked. I love it. I can't wait for the next meeting. Emma mocked us initially - "why don't you just go to your mates house and listen to music, whys it got to be a club with rules and a blog?" but two of us have kids, we live miles apart and need to drive, etc etc, so making it a "club" or wtf gives us a bit of a kick up the arse and impetus.

Xposts i'm on my phone now And this discussion is getting quite confusing, especially since ronan's choosing to ignore a whole bunch of things i've explained in numerous ways already and which I can't be fucked to go over again, but here goes.

I have plenty of friends who I know listen to good music and are very passionate about it. My key point is that I feel music appreciation is becoming an increasingly marginalised, personalised, insular pastime as a massive part of it now hinges on having to be at a computer or plugged into an ipod which usually takes place alone. Without physical formats to display and swap and get interested in, and without music outlets in which to browse and possibly bond in, many passionate music fans end up having better discussions with online strangers than they would their close friends. Music taste is now shown through one's online profile, reduced to a homogenous list of names and usually not that indicative of the user's true tastes anyway. So yeah, disagree with me if you like, but I can only state from my experiences. Again, ymmv.

I feel music appreciation is becoming an increasingly marginalised, personalised, insular pastime

for YOU maybe but if this is meant as a ~social observation~ you aren't backing it up at all

a massive part of it now hinges on having to be at a computer or plugged into an ipod which usually takes place alone

a) it doesn't because music in public spaces still exists b) computers and ipods aren't really solitary devices as anyone who's plugged an ipod into a system at a house party can testify c) the way in which digital listening facilitates sharing, on platforms where casual and obsessive music fans rub up against each other no less, makes music listening LESS marginalised and solitary

Without physical formats to display and swap and get interested in

like casual fans ever did this

many passionate music fans end up having better discussions with online strangers than they would their close friends

you can't talk to your close friends online? i feel sorry 4 u

oh god i can't even be bothered any more

No neither can I until you bother to read the rest I the thread

Loads of thirty and forty somethings talk about formative musical experiences listening to records or John Peel in their bedrooms. It's not like solitary listening is a new thing.

^^^

I bet loads of 60-somethings talk about playing Beatles singles on their own in their bedroom, too.

Thanks for your incite on this one. I never knew that.

I mean c'mon where did I say people never used to listen to music on their own?

Neither am I really saying that people don't listen to music together any more, which is what a lot of people ITT seem to think I am saying.

i dunno how you would accumulate numbers on this, but i suspect that being able to get any kind of music whenever you want has increased the kind of communal audience for any number of prickly and unpopular genres that was supposedly being facilitated by physical media trading, though i will get on board the idea that being able to filter for just the music you want contributes to a kind of unhealthy balkanization.