Neil Young Vs Rolling Stones

well, the Stones have "Indian Girl" and Young his Native American trilogy.

I don't have a problem with those themes Bill but I reserve the right to object when those themes are dealt with in an unappealing way. some songs about rape/murder are better than other songs about rape/murder.

some songs about rape/murder give me money, some songs about rape/murder buy me clothes

nothing against neil, but I would guess the ratio of stones songs played to neil young songs played at social gatherings I have attended over the last 25 years would something like 500 to 1.

neil isn't much for social gatherings. his songs go over better than the stones' in the hovels of cantankerous loners.

well, except for mine

xposts Neil also "Borrowed" the tune of "Lady Jane" for..."Piece of Crap".

for the record 'under my thumb' is one of my top 5 stones tracks easy but i'm not deluded enough to not realize that it's pretty misogynistic and that a depressingly high number of stones songs express similarly vile sentiments.

also fwiw i'd rather listen to mitch miller than neil young, any fuckin' day.

??? Mick Jagger was a feminist ahead of his time. He is simply stating that women can be huge assholes just like men. None of this sugar and spice crap. "Under My Thumb" is about payback.

sure pal

how soon we forget jagger's feminist manifesto "she's the boss"

UMT is clearly misogynistic but I read it as a bitter revenge fantasy, emphasis on fantasy. Nothing has changed, she still pushes him around, he's just daydreaming or deluding himself.

yeah i'm sure mick wasn't in any position of power in his relationships w/women when he wrote that song

Slight derail: is 'Stupid Girl' the only song title NY and the Stones share?

"Round and Round", but Chuck Berry wrote it so maybe it doesn't count?

xp you misunderstand me. I don't believe that Jagger intended it that way, I just choose to read that into it because it amuses me.

ah gotcha

I guess I generally tend to think that when somebody is boasting that much they're full of shit and the opposite is actually true.

mick jagger most likely wishes he was a woman. did you catch his uber macho role in Performance?

knee-jerk "political correctness" is fucking stifling.

I don't have a problem with those themes Bill but I reserve the right to object when those themes are dealt with in an unappealing way. some songs about rape/murder are better than other songs about rape/murder.

― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, September 27, 2012 11:24 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Hey, can you burn me some Four Freshman cd's? I'll take some Joan Baez while your at it.

bill that's such an infantile stance it's like...v. heavy infant mentality there man

hahahahah, thanks for your advice, Dad. this is great advice on a message board where adults are actually voting on who is better, neil young v. rolling stones. the paragon of mature discourse.

son I'm just concerned - your mother and I had high hopes for you - you like some cool tunes - but you keep rocking this "you didn't like something maybe kinda ugly WELL ENJOY YOUR PERRY COMO RECORDS" thing that you've been doing since you were a baby - we just worry, son, we worry

I tried singing "Magic Moments" to my daughter last night and she punched me in the face.

I did the Jagger moves from "Start Me Up" in front of my niece and she kicked me in the balls.

If you did "Moves Like jagger" she would have been ecstatic.

she does like "Marry The Night."

i talked about this on the Stones poll thread a few months ago but Ellen Willis makes a good case for why "Under My Thumb" is not sexist, or at least not as bad as a lot of other Stones songs:

http://jezebel.com/5797747/the-willis-test-is-the-new-bechdel-test

I am fairly certain Joan Baez has some dope songs about rape/murder (she must have done Silver Dagger at some point, right?) but I hate her voice, so

xp

the Stones (Jagger!) are evil sons of bitches, everybody knows that. just like everybody knows they are the biggest fucking band ever. Play With Fire, Under My Thumb, Street Fighting Man, Let It Bleed, Brown Sugar... morally disagreeable songs are what made them who they are. deal with it

how can anybody who likes voices hate Joan Baez's voice

says the guy who hates Fogerty's voice

lol

i'm kinda tantalized by Mick as a feminist actually

by the idea of Mick as a feminist I should say

you meant it the first way

i thought about bringing up the willis test (or as i like to call it, the "nookie" test, in honor of the ladies at limp bizkit concerts who holler along in identification with fred and his regret over the nookie) but honestly mick is such an obvious pig that i don't feel like defending him when one of his mid-60s "haha, i am over yew" songs is thrown under the bus.

"Under My Bus"

Have You Seen My Song, Baby, Thrown Under the Bus

Under the Gold Bus.

sorry if that imagery was cliche, guys, but i'm not here to make friends

I don't think that willis test really works.

http://www.wonkavisionmagazine.com/images/web_zine_images/webzine8_images/bruno.jpg

yeah i'm not wholeheartedly endorsing it, it just feels worth bringing up when "Under My Thumb" is singled out, especially in the context of the Stones' catalog when there are much more inarguably problematic songs (xpost)

I don't think that willis test really works.

admittedly when she brought up cat stevens' "Wild world" as something that would never exist in a gender inverse, she couldn't have foreseen concrete blonde's "joey"

or the Killers' "Somebody Told Me."

bill that's such an infantile stance it's like...v. heavy infant mentality there man

you're actually surprised?

willis is probably OTM, or maybe i just want her to be because i love 'under my thumb' so much.

Maybe you'd prefer i said this instead:

Di Meola's intrigue with complex rhythmic syncopation, combined with provocative lyrical melodies always incorporate sophisticated harmony at the root of these serious but heartfelt works is central and foremost.

say it but with a backbeat

and marimba

I don't see anything wrong with the bitter revenge fantasy, but I don't think there's a history of men being expected to speak only when spoken to, and I'm having trouble imagining a woman describing a man as a siamese cat. On the other hand, I can totally imagine a song like Wild World with "a woman sadly warning her ex-lover that he's too innocent for the big bad world out there." I don't get why she thinks that's unlikely.