New York Dolls

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Nah, jess is right on, they're overrated. Glad to see him here.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Saturday, 14 June 2003 06:43 (twenty-three years ago)

(but still, Johansen in Let It Ride = brilliant)

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Saturday, 14 June 2003 06:43 (twenty-three years ago)

(which guy in the clash?) um you know, the guitarist. steve jones tho - i like the sex pistols but oh man, don't you think he is one of the most unimaginative squares in the hist of the elec gtr...i didn't mean "terrible" like "can't play", just stodgy & undynamic...you know when he does stuff like that (bo diddley/pete townshend type) scrape along the strings thing, "raunchy" hi-energy takeoff sound as used by say for inst maybe the gtrist for pat benetar or someone - a real stiff!

― duane, Saturday, 14 June 2003 09:19 (twenty-three years ago)

the clash had two guitarists, Mick Jones and Strummer. I can see what you mean, S. Jones isn't the most interesting or original punk guitarist by a long shot, but I think his very direct style works for the Pistols' songs and Thunders' doesn't for the Dolls: as someone said upthread, it just sounds sloppy.

(haha Pat Benatar = OK by me)

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Sunday, 15 June 2003 04:56 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh, it was hott! Classic.

― Francis Watlington, Sunday, 15 June 2003 05:28 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah i knew that about the clash really, i don't think joe strummer played much gtr on their records tho. also like someone else upthread said There's something genuinely expressive about Johnny Thunder's guitar playing. He solos all through the songs – often just distorted extended notes. It bears little relation to the 'acceptable' guitar playing of commercial radio; it's even 'decorative,' fragile, or delicate. It makes all the lyrics of the songs much more melancholy, because they're accompanied by this sporadic, almost contrapuntal, harmony. It doesn't sound like other music. I think the producers tried to make up for it by making these random notes really quiet except in the 'proper' places (at the end of the song usually) but you can still hear them, all the time – it's quite disturbing. I guess he's actually listening to what they sound like.

Johnny Thunders was the one who went on to make great music after the New York Dolls, in my opinion. , i agree although actually most johnny thunders solo albums are pretty bad i guess

― duane (doorag), Sunday, 15 June 2003 06:37 (twenty-three years ago)

how do you all feel about buster poindexter?

― amateurist (amateurist), Sunday, 15 June 2003 06:41 (twenty-three years ago)

i thought he sucked but i only remember seeing him on tv, i never listened to the actual records

― duane (doorag), Sunday, 15 June 2003 06:45 (twenty-three years ago)

he's hot hot hot

― jess (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 15 June 2003 06:46 (twenty-three years ago)

Criticizing the New York Dolls for sounding "sloppy" = Classic

― David Allen, Sunday, 15 June 2003 06:47 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah they could've tightened up & been as good as the clash or the sex pistols

― duane (doorag), Sunday, 15 June 2003 06:51 (twenty-three years ago)

>how do you all feel about buster poindexter?

Thrilled that DavJoh finally made some money, although it figures it would come from extending "Stranded in the Jungle" into a full act.

>i don't think joe strummer played much gtr on their records tho

What?!? All that Telecaster dub-scratching/powerchord mania is him! Jones handled the Mott the Hoople lead lines and harmonic counterpoints. Both totally classic, as was Steve Jones, who merged Ramones chainsaw with Chuck Berry boogie (well, so did Eddie and the Hot Rods) to make the Pistols (dare I say it?) swing!

― Chris Clark (Chris Clark), Sunday, 15 June 2003 09:42 (twenty-three years ago)

Joe Strummer just played along unplugged while he sang, didn't he? He probably played a bit later, I suppose.

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Sunday, 15 June 2003 09:45 (twenty-three years ago)

there's good drumming & bass playing on the sex pistols stuff

― duane (doorag), Sunday, 15 June 2003 10:20 (twenty-three years ago)

but i think that about the new york dolls too so

― duane (doorag), Sunday, 15 June 2003 10:21 (twenty-three years ago)

classic, though I can see why some people aren't feelin' it and I probably like Aerosmith more. Though I'm surprised JBR likes the solo stuff but NOT the Dolls.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 15 June 2003 20:58 (twenty-three years ago)

why?

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 15 June 2003 21:17 (twenty-three years ago)

cuz what I've got of the David Johnansen solo stuff (the first two albums and Live It Up) sounds slightly tired and stuffier (not unlike Lou Reed solo compared to Velvets, though the Dolls-to-DaJo shift was nowhere as severe), and the best songs all remind me of New York Dolls (and were usually Dolls leftovers). Woah, I'm having deja vu from that Walkmen thread.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 15 June 2003 21:25 (twenty-three years ago)

I like the stuffiness. I like him better as a wizened late '70s soul-punk than a stoopid early '70s trash-punk... plus, I prefer the clear production on the solo recs, and the instrumentation (I'm a sucker for pianos in rock, especially when you can hear 'em out front like you can on songs like "Frenchette") and the songwriting. I know "maturity" is a dirty word around here but I think the mature Johansen is a pretty cool guy (yeah, even in his Buster years).

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 15 June 2003 21:36 (twenty-three years ago)

I'll definitely agree that Johansen has never been not cool (and "Frenchette" is great).

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 15 June 2003 21:38 (twenty-three years ago)

I also want to give him bigs up for his film career. His goofy performances in films like Scrooged and Freejack (which features fellow simean-type Mick Jagger!) were great. Though I've never seen his star turn in the allegedly horrific Car 54, Where Are You?

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 15 June 2003 21:40 (twenty-three years ago)

bigs up. yeesh.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 15 June 2003 21:47 (twenty-three years ago)

ten months pass...

The Dolls reunite. You can thank Morrissey.

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Monday, 19 April 2004 17:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm totally digging the underground reunion fever, personally.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 19 April 2004 20:09 (twenty-two years ago)

all board the train of suck. next stop: suckness.

― jack cole (jackcole), Monday, 19 April 2004 20:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't have the patience to read this whole thread but if no one said it before, Meltzer's take on the Dolls (opening chapter of A Whore Just Like The Rest) seemed spot on to me. I'll quote it if I can find the book. Gimme a minute...

anyway, they had their moments, sure. "Frankenstein" kicks ass. But I absolutely can't stand Johnny Thunders (even though So Alone was one of my desert island discs in college - I've done a complete 180 on that fucker for some reason)

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Monday, 19 April 2004 20:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Meltzer totally missed their appeal.

― Tim Ellison, Monday, 19 April 2004 21:01 (twenty-two years ago)

nah. This nails it:

"...these jerks who will ultimately pull no more weight that to make the world safe for Motley Crue, whose sole function of note during their collective professional tenure will be as Malcolm McLaren's first test barrel of monkeys..."

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Monday, 19 April 2004 21:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, I think they were rocking--in fact, amazingly so for 1973. Do you dislike the Sex Pistols, too? Because I don't think they did much more musically than reiterate Dolls stuff.

Maybe Johansen's lyrics turn you off? If so, you ought to hear the wacky Actress demos from '71 or whenever (been bootlegged and was pressed on LP by the Italian label Get Back in 2000 or so). With Johnny Thunders on lead vocals, they were a very different thing. It's almost Electric Eels-like.

― Tim Ellison, Monday, 19 April 2004 21:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Ooh, that sounds neat.

― morris pavilion (samjeff), Monday, 19 April 2004 21:12 (twenty-two years ago)

that DOES! Gotta track that down - thanks

for the record, I don't like the Pistols either (and prefer the Dolls anyway)

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Monday, 19 April 2004 21:14 (twenty-two years ago)

""...these jerks who will ultimately pull no more weight that to make the world safe for Motley Crue"

As if that's a bad thing! I remember now why Meltzer has been a bore for so long.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Monday, 19 April 2004 21:15 (twenty-two years ago)

blasphemy!!

to be honest though, Too Fast for Love still totally rocks, I'll give you that. It's almost punk in places.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Monday, 19 April 2004 21:17 (twenty-two years ago)

El Diablo OTM

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 19 April 2004 21:20 (twenty-two years ago)

BTW, Roger, given your Neil Hagerty threads, I do think that Neil is or was very post-Johnny Thunders. Called his band "the Jet Boys" (his pre-Pussy Galore D.C. band). That song "Junkie Nurse" is obviously very Johnny Thunders. I think his vocals are (or can be) kind of Johnny Thunders-influenced, too.

― Tim Ellison, Monday, 19 April 2004 21:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree. I guess it's not Johnny Thunders I hate so much as what he represents / what he's responsible for. Like I said, I used to listen to So Alone every day.

Man I'd kill to hear The Jet Boys

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Monday, 19 April 2004 21:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Rog, a pal of mine mentioned recently that someone's sending him a Jet Boys of the NW recording... maybe I can share with you if I get a copy at some point.

― morris pavilion (samjeff), Monday, 19 April 2004 22:07 (twenty-two years ago)

wow man that'd be great. I have tons to trade, lemme know what yr lookin for

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Monday, 19 April 2004 22:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't know, there's something troubling about the Dolls -- and the MC5 oddly enough -- reuniting w/ 3/5 of the suriviving lineup. I don't fault the guys themselves for the payday/nostalgia/whatever motiviation. Maybe it'll even be fun for them but the idea of either band without their signature guitar player (Johnny Thunders and "Sonic" Smith respectively)is musically suspect.

― lovebug starski, Monday, 19 April 2004 22:15 (twenty-two years ago)

no, the survivors are reuniting, 3/5/ of the original lineups. You know what I'm trying to say.

― lovebug starski, Monday, 19 April 2004 22:17 (twenty-two years ago)

New York Dolls are good.

'Chinese Rock' was a song by Dee Dee Ramone.

Listen to Sonic Youth's cover of 'Personality Crisis'.

― Sasha (sgh), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 04:07 (twenty-two years ago)

No thanks.

― morris pavilion (samjeff), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 06:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Morrissey of all people should realise that trying to recreate the NY Dolls without Johnny Thunders is about as pointless and futile as it would be to try to recreate The Smiths without Johnny Marr.

Was I having nightmares or did I really read somewhere that the late Mr Genzele's replacement for this - ahem - Frankenstein creation with a Personality Crisis, is actually going to be Chrissie "Bad Girl" Hynde?

Of course, I will go and see 'em if I get the chance....

Incidentally, my understanding is that Dee Dee wrote the lyrics to Chinese Rock but the Ramones refused to record it so Richard Hell finished it off when he was working with Jerry Nolan and Johnny Thunders in the first incarnation of The Heartbreakers. There are demos of this version about.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 09:12 (twenty-two years ago)

That song "Junkie Nurse" is obviously very Johnny Thunders

It's even moreso "Sister Morphine" by the Rolling Stones.

my understanding is that Dee Dee wrote the lyrics to Chinese Rock but the Ramones refused to record it so Richard Hell finished it off when he was working with Jerry Nolan and Johnny Thunders in the first incarnation of The Heartbreakers. There are demos of this version about.

It appears on the Time 2CD retrospective of Hell's work that Matador put out a couple years back, so its not hard to find. It's probably my favourite version of the song. In Hell's essay in the CD booklet, he points out what he wrote (the last two verses, if yr interested) and touches on the writing controversy (after he left the Heartbreakers, they took a writing credit on it).

― Vic Funk, Tuesday, 20 April 2004 09:42 (twenty-two years ago)

two years pass...

'Among their many accomplishments, the Dolls invented 80s hairspray metal (yes, this was a good thing)'

I know what you mean but bet a lot of those groups never even heard of the New York Dolls. Maybe they indirectly took their Dollish elements from KISS and Aerosmith.

― Carlos Keith (Buck_Wilde), Thursday, 18 May 2006 22:16 (twenty years ago)

Guns N Roses did; they covered "Human Being" on The Spaghetti Incident!

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 18 May 2006 22:33 (twenty years ago)

The New York Dolls, Hanoi Rocks and Roxy Music invented Guns n Roses

― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 18 May 2006 22:40 (twenty years ago)

Put them up there with Radio Birdman in hugely revered bands with very poor rhythm sections
-- Mr. Diamond (electrifyingmoj...) (webmail), June 13th, 2003 7:12 AM. (diamond) (link)

WHOA THERE MR. DIAMOND CIRCA TWO THOUSAND THREE. JERRY NOLAN WAS A KILLER DRUMMER.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 18 May 2006 22:50 (twenty years ago)

Also, the Count Five invented Goth.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 18 May 2006 23:04 (twenty years ago)

What a coincidence! I just this minute got finished watching New York Doll, the documentary about Arthur Kane and their reunion show. It is so incredibly sad!!

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Thursday, 18 May 2006 23:11 (twenty years ago)

Skipping 269 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

I was wondering what ever happened to the New York Doll Hospital on Lexington Ave between 61st/62nd Sts which inspired the band’s name… bc I remember spying the old NY Doll Hospital sign when it was still in business and suddenly realizing that’s where the name came from, and feeling the thrill of historical connection.

It’s now an establishment called 787 Unique Head Spa. And not for nothing, Unique Head strikes me as a good band name as well.

Oh yeah. Saw both of those, hadn’t realized it was the same location.

― Who Are the Mystery URLs? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 7 March 2025 01:28 (one year ago)

It’s now an establishment called 787 Unique Head Spa. And not for nothing, Unique Head strikes me as a good band name as well.

I was in the laundromat one day when it occurred to me that 80 Lb. Speed Queen would be a great band name. (Speed Queen is a brand of industrial clothes dryer.)

― Instead of create and send out, it pull back and consume (unperson), Friday, 7 March 2025 01:38 (one year ago)

80 lb Speed Queen = Taylor Mead?

Sorry, I’ll see myself out

― Josefa, Friday, 7 March 2025 02:34 (one year ago)

one year passes...

Spin Article about Quintano's School for Young Professionals, where Johnny, Syl and Billy apparently went:
https://books.google.com/books/about/SPIN.html?id=-6u53go_Q1oC

― The Man Who Sold the Unisphere (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 15 May 2026 15:21 (one month ago)

Page 92.

― The Man Who Sold the Unisphere (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 15 May 2026 15:22 (one month ago)

91 really.

― The Man Who Sold the Unisphere (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 15 May 2026 15:22 (one month ago)

90 to see the photos

― The Man Who Sold the Unisphere (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 15 May 2026 15:23 (one month ago)

just posted this previously uncirculated (and great) tape of the Dolls in late 72:
https://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/post/816597663926697984/ny-dolls-mercer
There's also a nice vinyl edition making the rounds.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/m4QAAeSwCbZp92Ft/s-l1600.webp

― tylerw, Friday, 15 May 2026 16:02 (one month ago)

Nice, thanks!

― The Man Who Sold the Unisphere (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 15 May 2026 16:56 (one month ago)

I always love the weird high backing vocals on things like "Pills" and "Trash," both of which I assume are Johnny.

― The Man Who Sold the Unisphere (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 15 May 2026 17:03 (one month ago)

Heh, like how a bunch of tracks are just Tuning, so you can edit out if you want, although I don't want.

― The Man Who Sold the Unisphere (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 15 May 2026 19:32 (one month ago)

hey thanks for the heads up on that dolls boot. there's also this late-inning johansen single:

https://schnitzel.co.uk/2026/david-johansen/

― Thus Sang Freud, Saturday, 16 May 2026 22:26 (one month ago)

Can we be shown weirdos + L-U-V?

― The Man Who Sold the Unisphere (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 17 May 2026 02:03 (one month ago)

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