amanda palmer's open poem to jonathan chait (and other crimes)

I think the worst thing I've said about Amanda Palmer is that she seems to be incredibly terrible at managing money

I'd say she's very good at it, actually

You know, if Palmer just admitted she's happy to profit from her work, and is grateful that fans give her the opportunity, it would be bullshit if she continued to get grief. She'd be no fucking worse than Kiss or 90% of rock bands. But if she continues to make the case that she's being really admirable and valiant here and blazing new pathways for ART, she basically is feeding the trolls.

Let's save judgment on that until we've seen her house and her pension fund.

She's great at managing others to give her money, not so good with it once it's hers.

"i talked with emily white over our beer about how she felt, being the living symbol in a giant cultural battle. as you would expect, it sucks the life out of you a little."

I can't believe that I feel twinges of remorse whenever I eat a few French fries, meanwhile this woman has the entire world screaming "PAY YOUR MUSICIANS PLEASE" at her and she can't muster up even an iota of self-doubt re: this issue

french fries, owen?

Freedom fries.

I'd say she's very good at it, actually

lol touche

Yeah, French fries. I'm not a kid, I don't eat that stuff. (Except when somebody accidentally orders them for me then I'll eat all of them.)

Albini again:

http://www.thestoolpigeon.co.uk/features/interview-steve-albini.html

I wonder if Palmer will eventually go full Rob Liefeld and sign another major label contract

I don't understand the french fry remorse. Or the "kid" thing.

even neil, my husband who has NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS, has been fielding hate and anger from people who just see him as a fun target because he’s high-profile.

M@tt you hurt the Sandman's feelings!

I'm starting to think a world where grown-ups don't eat french-fries is a world where I don't want to pay musicians.

That is a very strange bit of lateral logic!

even neil, my husband who has NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS

He was involved with her other kickstarter, so this strikes me as more than a little disingenuous.

what albini said, yes.

If french fries are off the table, so is equitable compensation.

I have a compromise; all musicians will be paid in french fries

Ah, well, aside from French fries and soda being like the worst shit you can put in your body, I suffer from acid reflux and can't eat them. You can pay me in hummus

we will mash up your french fries and you can do what you will with the resulting paste

did she really compare the way she's attempting to fund her artistic work to NPR's model? I don't think we even need to break that one down.

http://chandler.concreterepairman.com/wp-content/uploads/wpbdm/1302354389_0.jpg

I thought you might want a bigger shovel, Amanda.

He was involved with her other kickstarter, so this strikes me as more than a little disingenuous.

that kickstarter has nothing to do with this tour though - it's like attacking her for shows on the Moth tour he's doing right now being sold out

albini otm, especially about the barely-literate nature of the bloggity-blog echo chamber. makes me want to go see him on the Australian tour I just learned about from his replies.

fwiw I don't think that anyone is getting super-rich from this, and if she wants to create content and sell stuff this way, that's cool. For all I know, the album this kickstarter is for might be something I'd be into, but what I do know is how to recognize when someone is flailing around trying to justify actions they may not know their own reasons for taking.

fwiw I don't know why she didn't just say something like "I didn't think it was a good use of resources to take several musicians on tour when they only play for two songs in my set," but again, I'm not her.

because ppl would respond with "but what about the songs you alluded to that are in your opening act's set, esp. since your opening act is a dude in your band whom you are paying"

"beats me"

"they get extra beer for that"

I am 100% with Albini on these two points:

Part of Amanda’s defence of her scheme seems to be that, simply, many fans would jump at the chance to play with their favourite musicians for no money — does this argument seem fair?
On the part of the fans, I totally understand and sympathize with this impulse. That’s starkly different from a millionaire asking people to do things for free, under the guise that she is giving them something by indulging them. It’s cheapness repainted as generosity and it’s gross. Using people in this way, exploiting their good nature for one’s own benefit, is a cancer that taints many enterprises and it always reflects poorly on the exploiter. It’s one of the things I hated most about the old-school record business, the practice of fucking with people who loved music so much they would put up with endless greed and abuse just to be a part of it. A new music business paradigm, if it is worth anything, should strive to be free of exploitation and be honest about its motives.

What other aspects of Palmer’s scheme strike you as ‘absurdly inefficient’?
Given that the typical budget for albums I work on is less than $10,000, you can take your pick of line-items in her budget, divide by ten and still have an order of magnitude worth of waste from my perspective. I haven’t looked at the breakdown since I first saw it so don’t quote me on it (haha, “don’t quote me,” I just said something funny), but I recall that she skimmed a couple hundred grand off the top for her pleasure prior to beginning to make the record. That alone is enough to make the record of your dreams a couple times over and seems like a straight-up “fuck you” to everybody who pledged money to the project.

It’s crazy that I have to explain to you how ridiculous it is to blow a million dollars. More than a million dollars. Just say it out loud and think about how much fucking money a million dollars is. That’s several really nice houses with a Jaguar in each garage. A lifetime’s wages. It’s just an incredible sum, enough to make a hundred records. Palmer had more than that at her disposal and now claims not to have enough left to pay musicians. To pay them for gigs she is also being paid to play. This coming from someone who already had a successful career before she had her audience begin paying all her expenses in advance. A millionaire pleading poverty and asking for additional charity. It’s fucking ridiculous and it mocks all the bands who genuinely need their audience to help them conduct their business.

So that’s what I think. Nobody’s an idiot, some ways of conducting business are just uglier and more exploitative than others.

Full context.

My POV boils down to this: Yes, Palmer's musician-fans would be fucking overjoyed to join her onstage at a show in their town. That doesn't make it any less fucking gross that she asked them to do it. She shouldn't ever have asked.

Just say it out loud and think about how much fucking money a million dollars is. That’s several really nice houses with a Jaguar in each garage.

Really? Fuck it, I'm moving to Chicago.

Share your wealth col poo

(I agree with what he's saying but I don't get why it's necessary to exaggerate that much to make his point)

was gonna say

xxpost

tbf Albini's idea of a really nice house is probably different, dude doesn't exactly spend extravagantly

"really nice" is the only exaggeration there

lol I just looked up average house prices for Chicago. It is actually really insanely cheap to live there apparently. Maybe I really should try and move there! (there may be some complications)

yeah there are many ways in which Chicago is the ideal American city to live in

the homes are so cheap there, the musicians who who live in them work for free

Chicago is badass if you can stand the winters - I myself could not

So, I've only read four AFP tumblr posts ever (Kickstarter, "I don't have 30K", "I once played ukelele on a beach for free" and "Somebody made an SNL reference to me and I started shaking") but I am kind of surprised at how often she makes reference to alcohol consumption. "Most importantly... does everybody have a drink?" "...and beer!" et cetera.

I'm gonna start paying my musicians in cigarette cartons

xp: welcome to Boston

Not condoning calling anybody an "ignorant slut" but I was called an "ignorant slut" by a nerd friend on the daily c. grade 7, maybe she hasn't seen that skit tho

My POV boils down to this: Yes, Palmer's musician-fans would be fucking overjoyed to join her onstage at a show in their town. That doesn't make it any less fucking gross that she asked them to do it. She shouldn't ever have asked.

^^^ I guess there're all sorts of problems with the following analogy, but, like, if you are way famous, there are plenty of people who would be very happy to have sex with you because they like your work. They'll probably enjoy it, too! But that's still exploiting your position as a Way Famous Person and it's kinda gross whether your conquests are having a good time or not. Obligatory self-disclosure, as both DJP & Ówen can attest our dressing room post-Aerosmith gig is basically a massive, exhausting orgy that doesn't end until somebody has a plane to make. we are ashamed yet sated

I am kind of surprised at how often she makes reference to alcohol consumption. "Most importantly... does everybody have a drink?" "...and beer!" et cetera.

don't be too surprised by this btw - making reference to alcohol is an easy way to get people to have something to latch onto in your music/persona. A decade ago I wrote about some alcoholics - lots of people like that story because, hey, we get drunk too! afp is really savvy businesswise and "appeal to people who drink to unwind" is basically Good Entertainment Business 101

So, I've only read four AFP tumblr posts ever (Kickstarter, "I don't have 30K", "I once played ukelele on a beach for free" and "Somebody made an SNL reference to me and I started shaking") but I am kind of surprised at how often she makes reference to alcohol consumption. "Most importantly... does everybody have a drink?" "...and beer!" et cetera.

― E.I.E.I. (Ówen P.), Monday, September 17, 2012 3:06 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

She reminds me of my friends and family who are super into RenFest in this regard.

Obligatory self-disclosure, as both DJP & Ówen can attest our dressing room post-Aerosmith gig is basically a massive, exhausting orgy that doesn't end until somebody has a plane to make. we are ashamed yet sated

An orgy of hummus?