XTC vs. REM

REM, easy

Voted XTC obviously
Would vote Church over REM too
Would vote almost anyone over REM, who bore me

I love both bands for different reasons and refuse to vote.

In the meantime, here's Andy Partridge's thoughts on REM's 'E-Bow The Letter' from an interview circa 1997:

"I thought it was appalling, very crap indeed. I would be embarrassed to put out a song like that and considering I was breaking some musical barrier. It was like some 4th form poetry, smacked of pretention!"

source?

Source:

Online interview from the MSN Rifff show, 12th June 1997.

http://www.mysipod.co.uk/bungalow/articles/riffchat.htm

I recall this very well, he'd referred to the track as 'E-Bow Shite' in an interview from around the time the track first came out, and in this interview he was asked to elaborate on his comment.

I love both bands for different reasons and refuse to vote.

― The Jupiter 8 (Turrican), Sunday, September 16, 2012 6:08 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^^

I like the aesthetic/'vibe' of (early) R.E.M. very much, have had the songs kicking around in my brain from earliest childhood onward, and, if I ever move out of the southern United States, I'll probably end up listening to Murmur and staring at the cover whenever I get homesick.

but I think XTC, despite not resonating as deeply with me *as a person*, simply made better music. I'm far more likely to enthusiastically play their songs for someone who's never heard them before, for what that's worth.

if 80s college radio were 00s chillwave, XTC would be Ariel Pink and R.E.M. would be, I dunno, Best Coast?

I love REM up through "Document". I love XTC until the bitter end, though the production of their last few albums did them no favors. But ultimately I find the replay-ability of XTC to be far greater than REM. Plus they had the best b-sides!

This is kind of a lazy poll, though. I'd be more interested in XTC vs. some 21st century equivalent, though I'm not sure who that'd be.

Gotta go with XTC here. Just because I am shallow and like drug and club music and am not always up for the politics of REM, though I have great respect for them!

XTC as drug and club music...!

There's nuts and crisps and Coca-Cola on tap

if 80s college radio were 00s chillwave, XTC would be Ariel Pink and R.E.M. would be, I dunno, Best Coast?

― He revs the language like a hypersonic superbike. (bernard snowy), Sunday, September 16, 2012 3:31 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

...

XTC are great but REM are one of my four or five favourite bands ever.

What Gavin said.

voted for XTC because all the music of theirs that i haven't heard is better in my imagination than all the REM i have heard

and they had a better rhythm section

XTC >>> Rene, Esther, and Martha

XTC >>>

voted for XTC because all the music of theirs that i haven't heard is better in my imagination than all the REM i have heard

― nutrition aziz (some dude), Sunday, September 16, 2012 2:44 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

and they had a better rhythm section

― nutrition aziz (some dude), Sunday, September 16, 2012 2:45 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ooh don't know about that!

this is a question i asked myself most earnestly in 8th grade (1988)
still not sure what my answer is?!

Which XTC rhythm section are you referring to, some dude, out of curiosity? The original Moulding/Chambers config... or Moulding/Phipps, Moulding/Prince, Moulding/Mastelotto, Moulding/Mattacks... or all of them? While I appreciate that Moulding is a key part of the XTC sound and the constant here, I do feel that a different drummer = a different rhythm section. The human element in each of their drumming styles practically ensures that no two rhythm sections are the same.

i think probably REM in spite of their many embarrassments because when the day is done, i always going to be from the usa.

this is a better poll than INXS vs U2 though

xpost to self:

Actually, has a 'best XTC drummer' poll been done yet!?

REM . . . sigh. I loved "Chronic Town, most of "Murmur" and sporadic tunes (often b-sides) from the era of the next two albums. But god, they got boring in a hurry, and worse than that, they managed to eliminate 99% of what made them interesting in the first place. First and foremost, the loss of any sense of mystery. They became preachy in a way that was more annoying than the way U2 became preachy, primarily because they tried to be clever about it, but it was still so obvious. U2 just sort of hit you over the head with it! "Everybody Hurts" is like a U2 pity anthem, but a whiny listen-to-it-in-your-bedroom one that was constructed just to elicit a pathetic emotional response from the grown-up college rockers of 1983. The aural equivalent of a "sentimental montage" in the last ten minutes of "Without A Trace" - an approximation of art that only fools fools.

But most importantly, I have actually come to think of REM in terms of U2. The ultimate insult. But they earned it!

XTC wrote sharper songs, and were uneven from time to time, but spread the highs pretty evenly throughout their career. Their work doesn't feel like a long downward slide in the way that REM's does. I don't rate the first two albums as faves, but "Drums And Wires," "Black Sea" and English Settlement" were a near perfect trio of albums that managed to stand high as "postpunk" efforts (when that was more-or-less commercial suicide) while still spewing forth incredible pop songs in something vaguely like standard form. The social commentary curt and blunt, the melodies top-notch, the rhythm section tight as fuck. The only comparison to this period would be the three albums by Elvis Costello & the Attractions from "This Year's Model" to "Get Happy!!!," but EC and gang never attempted anything like the mighty stretch of "Travels In Nihilon" or a way fucked-up experimental dub album and often resorted to nostalgic covers when the steam started faltering. XTC's "love" songs during this period displayed more alienation, anger and psychosis than Elvis managed even when he was aiming for it.

Though that's my favorite period of XTC, it's amazing how great some of their later stuff holds up - the whole of "Skylarking," the perfection of "Mayor Of Simpleton" and even their "comeback" Apple Venus-era stuff. Yow!

So XTC, obviously.

You're OTM re: R.E.M. I got off the bus at Out Of Time, and even then I'd probably stayed on for two too many stops. The two things that signaled the permanent decline in R.E.M.'s work were 1) Stipe's sudden enunciation, starting with Lifes Rich Pageant (a concession, rumor has it, to IRS); and 2) their decreasing interest in playing live, which naturally coincided with their move to arenas. Everything was now spelled out, gestures were broader, and like you said, the mystery had vanished.

ooh don't know about that!

― timellison, Sunday, September 16, 2012 5:55 PM (31 minutes ago) Bookmark

yeah but i could say Zep had a better rhythm section than REM and you'd be all "hey now, that's a matter of opinion!"

Which XTC rhythm section are you referring to, some dude, out of curiosity? The original Moulding/Chambers config... or Moulding/Phipps, Moulding/Prince, Moulding/Mastelotto, Moulding/Mattacks... or all of them? While I appreciate that Moulding is a key part of the XTC sound and the constant here, I do feel that a different drummer = a different rhythm section. The human element in each of their drumming styles practically ensures that no two rhythm sections are the same.

― The Jupiter 8 (Turrican), Sunday, September 16, 2012 6:03 PM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark

i honestly don't know much about XTC and their different lineups, i just know that the bass and drums have been a big part of the appeal of the stuff i've heard and liked

I love both bands for different reasons and refuse to vote but I voted anyway. It felt like Sophie's Choice.

That's kind of a can of worms for me re. heavy rock but substitute plenty of bands for Zep there and that ain't true.

Or not even "bands" necessarily but like all of soul music and, you know...

yeah, as much as i love REM's early days (chronic town through reckoning, more or less), XTC kept up an at least comparable level of quality for decades, album after album, in bunch of different styles. white music, drums and wires, the big express, skylarking, psonic psunspot, etc. no contest.

Did anyone born after 1985 vote for REM here? REM fans usually have to bring up the band's influence when appealing to younger folks. I spent a 12 hour round trip car drive to San Francisco trying to make REM's greatness jell for me. I listened to a lionizing Sound Opinions podcast and most of their albums. XTC's greatness, on the other hand, was apparent to me and my high school friends in the early 2000s.

I dunno, I think REM were near-spotless up until Bill Berry left the band, with Out Of Time and Monster being my two least favourites from that period, and New Adventures In Hi-Fi being one of my favourite things the band has ever done. I like the odd song here and there, and have a soft spot for Accelerate, but the chemistry had definitely gone.

Re: the 'mystery' thing...

I understand that American music fans who grew with REM in the early-to-mid '80s might have their own take on things, and I can understand why they felt that REM lost some mystery towards the end of the IRS period/beginning of the Warners period. For me, being a Brit, I have a different take on the band. REM didn't really break through here until Out Of Time, I wasn't used to hearing the type of accent that Michael Stipe sings in, and when I did pay attention to what he was singing oftentimes I had no fucking clue what he was on about.

But man, I loved those guitars and those melodies.

*like the odd song here and there AFTER Berry left, should I say.

I had originally gotten off the REM bus at "Monster," but have in recent months been listening to it and the albums I skipped up until "Accelerate," and found that both a) I'm in a lot better position as a music listener now to appreciate the "rock star" ironies they were indulging in on "Monster" [which I guess is maybe their "Zooropa" or "Achtung Baby?"] and b) there's a lot to love on some of those post-Berry albums, plus "New Adventures" is a lot better than I had known at the time. If "Electrolite" or "New Test Leper" had been the first single, history might have judged it differently.

My interest in REM fell off after Berry left, but they get my vote because the records through Document were so important to me when they came out. I'm not nearly as familiar with the XTC catalog, which is probably why I listen to those albums more often now.

I saw REM open for XTC in 1981. My friends and I were pretty excited because British bands rarely played Athens and we'd been hearing XTC's singles on college radio for a couple of years. REM's set was fun, but that night XTC was unmistakably the better and more experienced band.

oh, XTC, obv.

Voting for SOD. Failing that, Dukes of Stratosphear is not a bad answer. I wonder what other bands did "cute" side-projects that are way better than the actual band.

In the meantime, here's Andy Partridge's thoughts on REM's 'E-Bow The Letter' from an interview circa 1997:

"I thought it was appalling, very crap indeed. I would be embarrassed to put out a song like that and considering I was breaking some musical barrier. It was like some 4th form poetry, smacked of pretention!"

welp, guess I'm voting for REM out of spite then

what's XTC's fucked up experimental dub album tho? is that the Dukes of Stratosphear thing everybody keeps alluding to itt?

nope, partridge remixed a load of go 2 and drums & wires tracks, and released them as EPs

You'd be thinking of Go+, the EP that came with their second album, Go 2!

The Dukes Of Stratosphear is their psixties psychedelic alter-ego!

What Jupiter said. I can totally appreciate the mystery of early REM and certainly the first three albums are quite magical, but they changed as a band and as people, and I don't think they could have, or should have, kept making the same kind of records. One of the reasons those early albums are so perfect is the fact that they didn't devalue them with diminishing pastiches.
As a Brit discovering them in the early 90s I found Automatic and OOT plenty mysterious. Songs about death, the south, lost youth... plus the videos added to that aesthetic. I mean, for a huge band to make as arty videos as they did was a really cool thing. Add to that the portal aspect - through REM i got into Patti Smith, Television, Mission of Burma, Replacements, Husker Du, The Byrds, Richard Thompson, Jack Kerouac, Howard Finster, Man Ray etc etc...
I can understand why people got off the REM bus at Document cos that's actually one of my least favourite REM albums. But what came after is better IMO. I much prefer OOT, Automatic, Monster and even New Adventures. Of all their albums Document and Green have the most dated sound and while both have some great songs, they've also got some ho-hum stuff. The Wire cover on Document is probably the weakest track they'd put on an album to that point, turning the nervy energy of the original into straight up bar-band chug.
Aaaanyway, I bloody love XTC as well, but having only got into them in the past 5 years, they inevitably don't mean as much to me as REM.
Both fucking great bands, why should we fight.

Stew otm, I def dislike Document and for the most part tend to prefer REMs 90s stuff to their 80s

btw, confidential to D.A.M.: it cannot be too strongly emphasized that the Dukes of Stratosphear 'side project' was a career highlight and deserves to be heard even by non-fans

Add to that the portal aspect - through REM i got into Patti Smith, Television, Mission of Burma, Replacements, Husker Du, The Byrds, Richard Thompson, Jack Kerouac, Howard Finster, Man Ray etc etc...

There is no wrong or right

btw, confidential to D.A.M.: it cannot be too strongly emphasized that the Dukes of Stratosphear 'side project' was a career highlight and deserves to be heard even by non-fans

― He revs the language like a hypersonic superbike. (bernard snowy), Monday, September 17, 2012 12:19 AM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Confidential to D.A.M. it may be, but still no less OTM.

http://rlv.zcache.com/confidential_shhh_dont_let_the_secret_out_stickers-p217730143322412774bah05_400.jpg

And, if I'm truly honest with myself, Andy Partridge is just fucking annoying sometimes! Grating in his presentation and vocal affectations. Does anyone else feel this way?

― Clarke B., Sunday, September 16, 2012 5:36 PM (5 hours ago)

I second that emotion. XTC were interesting for about 5 minutes in the early 80s. They haven't troubled my consciousness since then.

that's shit

E-bow shite.

EMOTIONS

grrrrrr...

i'm not reading this thread but voted REM by a gajillion squillion light years

REM appeal has faded so dramatically since my teenage years I pretty much never want to listen to them ever. XTC's catalog only grows richer as a I get older, so them.

I think REM came on stronger out of the gate (although I like the first three XTC albums fine.) But from Black Sea onwards XTC scale heights for me that REM never approached.

The Church, waaaaaaay over both of them.

― mr.raffles, Sunday, September 16, 2012 9:40 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

for 80s + 90s output together that continues to be listenable (and enjoyable and low on countable cringe moments/emotional outburst inducing qualities) in 2012 yeah, definitely
at least for me (but i like all three bands for different reasons so i'm not sure they're even comparable in my mind at all)

XTC, because, as crustaceanrebel stated eloquently upthread, the span from Drums + Wires to English Settlement hits such dizzying heights. XTC, for me, were never quite as great again once they lost that slashing rhythmic edge to the guitars, but the later paintbox pastoralist stuff had its share of wonderful moments even if only Skylarking sustainsa feature-length listen.

REM, by comparison, start out full of treasure, make real magic for about four years, then produce 20 odd years of mawk which I never want to hear again.

Andy and Stipe tied for potential to be annoying twits, in radically different ways, of course.

For one last bit of REM magic you can squeeze from their stone, seek the fan club singles - brilliant covers, oddities and live bits. Hope they riessue those properly!

dave gregory has gone full prog, covering genesis and everything, in tin spirits
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTLhdnbDQeA
and peter buck is touring minor league baseball stadiums. i wonder if we'll ever hear much again from any of the rest of these guys

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

While XTC hasn't been wearing well for me at all over the last decade (due almost solo to Andy Partridge's vocals), they loomed pretty large for me at certain points in the past, and I still love a handful of their songs more than anything from REM. I was never particularly into REM, except for briefly listening very heavily to Green around the time it came out. (I got to like some songs from that, and a few other songs, while drunker than I've ever been, at a work-related party.)

But "Ten Feet Tall" alone, for instance, thrills me more than everything I've heard by REM put together.

Though I would probably take most REM over 90s XTC.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

hahaha

http://stuffflypeoplelike.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Hundreds-celebrate-death-of-Osama-bin-Laden-in-Washington_1.jpg

incorrect outcome

and they're marching through swindon
s-s-s-s-swindon

Sock the Vote!

Damn you, Peter Buck and your 30 ILX accounts!

good to see the zappabots evolved btw

Neither.

and apparently andy partridge is recording with . . . mike keneally?

http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=38692

what?

REM standom befuddles me

I feel like there needs to be a Fall song on the Hey! Student/Hey! Fascist template called Hey! G00gler

hey! scambot 1

unskewedpolls.com

hahaha

― balls, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 01:59 (16 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

praise alarm