amanda palmer's open poem to jonathan chait (and other crimes)

"A list of gigs you've played or a video of a gig" is really not that massive an ask to provide.

And $50 - $100 isn't unreasonable to ask as compensation for your talent.

I admittedly know a disproportionate number of conservatory kids but the vast majority of them who would have regular gigging experience on non-rock instruments would not do this.

Distant xpost to Dan (I think?) but I brought up her take-home as compared to teachers not to say that teachers are getting paid too much but that I don't really consider $65,000 a year a shit-load of money. Maybe it is compared to what I make, and certainly it is compared to average salaries in America, let alone to the 20% of Americans living on $20,000 for a family of four, but really, $65,000 is not Scrooge McDuck swimming in cash loot. It's a very good living for a moderately popular act, which she has earned through years of work, and frankly if that's all she's making I'm shocked, given her profile. But this is no whatever the name of that band was that audaciously wrote a much-mocked Op ed about how expensive it is to be a hot young new band living in NYC. Palmer seems to work pretty hard (unless you don't consider what she does hard work at all, in which case, bring it up with the full-time touring musicians on the board) and she's entitled to make money any way she can. It's hardly exploitative to take volunteer fan musicians and put them on on stage, no more than it would be to ask fans to help carry equipment to the van.

BTW, I saw Springsteen twice last weekend, and both times the asshole brought some kid on stage to sing part of a shitty song while he took a break. Child labor, past their bedtime and not even paid! The nerve of the dick. For what he makes he really should be shelling out some clams.

And $50 - $100 isn't unreasonable to ask as compensation for your talent.

Yeah, this makes sense to me if you're asking for even a reasonable level of competence (as opposed to just a fan shouting into a mic or somesuch).

can you provide specific examples of the uncalled for personal attacks on AP you've read itt?

http://twitter.com/#!/search/amanda%20palmer%20sucks

Why is everyone acting like the money left over from her Kickstarter is definitively the only money she's making this year? She's not even halfway through her tour yet; she could lose or gain much more still.

Also, in her own words, she said she'd be happy to break even on this; currently she is $100K ahead and still short on musicians for her tour, claiming she can't afford them. The numbers don't actually add up with the rhetoric.

If her whole thing had been "I want to network with and reward fans with an experience" rather than "I can't afford $35K" this would be an entirely different conversation.

She should have held a contest/auditions for fans to comprise her band, then taken a group of them on the road for a while. And paid them. That would have been pretty cool, too, like some old school MTV contest.

http://twitter.com/#!/search/amanda%20palmer%20sucks

Oh, sorry, let me explain that itt = in this thread.

Did Bruce have the fan send in audition tapes & resume, show up early for rehearsal? Bring an expensive instrument that may be in danger of getting messed w at a rock concert?

No, the dude just grabbed the poor kid out of the crowd! Conscription!

there's a difference between a magician spontaneously asking a fan to come on stage to be part of an act and asking the fan to be the leggy assistant that actually secretly performs the trick, and asking for vetted backup instruments does feel more in the leggy assistant category.

It is hilarious to read this thread while listening to the new PSB song "Ego Music"

lol @ Josh just willfully trolling at this point

Yeah, sorry, didn't intend anyone to take me seriously.

Chuck Berry had the right idea. Don't play a note until you have the bag of money in your hands.

Glitter and nipple pasties are pretty pricey these days.

Now I'm imagining Chuck Berry in glitter and nipple pasties, thanks.

how about his ding-a-ling?

I think part of my initial ire at complainers about this is that I first heard about this from multiple whiny musician friends on facebook who seem to feel entitled to a living playing music and seem to be convinced that if they can't, it's because people don't value music enough or something

Fans shelling out 1.2 mil is proof that someone out there values music, even if it's hers.

the amanda palmers of the world are crowdsourcing me out of a living!

otm. I really don't have a problem w her fans wanting to play or her asking them. I've never thought anything at all about Amanda Palmer til this thread, and I started reading up on her, and now I'm LOL @ Drama Students cos her thing really sounds like a cliched drama student's wet dream.

xp get better fb friends i guess

Maybe it's better that her fans' parents' money goes to her rather than a Romney SuperPAC, amiright?

according to the Q&A video re: the staged suicide recordings, she was 18 when the recording/"performance" happened, the album with the clips was released in 2008. so she sat on the recordings for 14 years and then decided as a 32 year old grown ass adult to include the recording in the album.

i'm not familiar with the album in question so i'm not sure whether it fits in thematically, but that is just completely mindblowingly indefensible imo

her thing really sounds like a cliched drama student's wet dream

bingo!

BTW I am currently laughing inside at the image of 14 drama students on a bus in animal costumes berating Adam for being too money-driven

like I am picturing this felt lion a la school play wizard of oz shaking his round felt lion head exaggeratedly and saying "this isn't about the money!"

lol me too. Just add discussions on what each person's Spirit Animal is, how good they are at Reiki, their crystal collection, etc.

it's like a really fucked up, psychedellic version of a C.S. Lewis novel

if we're saying that the participants should be demanding $50-$100 (and presumably aren't), then it seems to me that the onus falls on them more than AP. sure, everyone has the right to make a living at their chosen profession, but we also have the right to give it away for free if we so choose. and, like AP, we have the right to ask others to work for any or even no wage. they can always refuse, after all.

i suppose that argument might open a nasty can of worms wr2 worker's rights and fair hiring practices, but in this particular case, i don't think those sorts of concerns apply.

There are good points and counterpoints on both sides here. If Palmer wasn't such a polarizing figure, maybe it would be more cut & dried... What if, say, Ian MacKaye did something similar? Would there be such an uproar? (Or would Ian simply never do such a thing because it is the "wrong" thing to do? Someone get Ian on the phone...)

The Branca thing does seem to be similar, aside from the "one-off art installation" nature of it. I've asked my friends who played in it what they think, but nobody has replied yet.

When this story first dropped someone told me that she plays ukulele with a capo. Is that true? Cos it's quite possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

I jumped at the opportunity to do the Branca thing in 2001. Rode the Greyhound for 11h to do it and it felt like an honour at the time (early 20s). No way would I do that for free now. But yeah, I mentioned above that I thought about this right away. One difference is that, iirc, admission was free for this event. It was funded by a public grant. I don't know how much it was, or whether Branca took home much, but I imagine that it would not have been enough to pay 100 musicians.

Provide some kind of proof you can play an instrument" is not that great of an expectation, considering people are presumably going to be paying something for this performance

Is this what people refer to as an "own goal?"

hahahaha let's back away from the controversy stirred by Amanda Palmer and pretend this is Ian "Guilty Of Being White" MacKaye

didn't ian dance for free at that saturday night live thing?

One difference is that, iirc, admission was free for this event.

In the UK admission was £25, apparently (I did not see it, though I would have liked to). No idea how much Branca got out of it.

Yeah, the guy who's scrupulous about tracking down people who recorded 7 inches for Dischord when they were 18 so he can give them $30 cheques would definitely do this.

xp

don't drag fugazi into this u dildos

I'm going to start a band called U Dildos.

Done.

We need $50,000 to put out our first 7". In return, I will personally stamp each sleeve, and include a Polaroid of my cat.

I also need money for a Polaroid camera, unless someone wants to, um, volunteer one.

Q: do you need a cat?

if so, you can use mine while you're in town. she will not require payment, but might appreciate some lap time.

I need $10,000 just for all the polaroid cameras and cats and stuff I need just to get this kickstarter going!

btw remember when the dude from animal collective actually literally scammed people through kickstarter and basically just bought drugs or idk what with the funds and there were like 1/100 as many posts about it?

the dude from animal collective also wasn't getting feted on npr etc

and yes, he is an asshole too

So, wait, that was real? I figured it was someone posing as him.

btw remember when the dude from animal collective actually literally scammed people through kickstarter and basically just bought drugs or idk what with the funds and there were like 1/100 as many posts about it?

― look at this quarterstaff (Hurting 2), Friday, September 14, 2012 12:47 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I just saw this last week - seems dodgy as hell, have they ever actually addressed this anywhere?