amanda palmer's open poem to jonathan chait (and other crimes)

Speaking of Steve Albini

http://pitchfork.com/news/47845-steve-albini-slams-amanda-palmer-for-asking-fans-to-play-in-her-band-for-free/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+PitchforkLatestNews+%28Pitchfork%3A+Latest+News%29&utm_content=Google+Reader

Er, uh, that's exactly WHY we were talking about Albini.

"Don't encourage your audience to gather at a mud pit downstate and sell meth and blowjobs to each other - be more like GG Allin instead"

Hah, I'd missed that the kickstarter actually links Albini's "The Problem With Music".

hahaha that's perfect

Time to show all messages...

As a musician, I find it annoying, but not all that surprising. Getting paid in beer and hugs most of my life anyways, like most musicians. And yes if there are fans and it makes them happy then that's great. I personally wouldn't do it, but then again I haven never heard AP, and if the Boredoms were asking for musicians or something I'd jump at that chance. I think her big crime here is timing, coming right after a Kickstarter where her fans gave her $1.2 million dollars.

Is there a breakdown upthread about the spending on that? I'm really skeptical that she ends up with only $65,000 of that...

about that "show all messages" idea...

lol.

Ctrl-F 'breakdown' like you were on a house thread!

Hey, how about she brings in barstaff who like her and will work for free too? And security (qualified of course, but fans). And gets fans who like her to make her merch.

Then sells it.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/amandapalmer/amanda-palmer-the-new-record-art-book-and-tour/posts/232020

Hmm....immediately deducts $250,000 for "all of that behind-the-scenes stuff which just got us to DAY ONE of kickstarter"

.....okay. That seems to be the most-in depth description of that quarter of a million dollars.

Imma keep reading here...

I think people jumping on the million dollar thing (or that this is coming after her "making a million dollar")should read the breakdown of her budget and then maybe judge her based on that rather than assuming she's got millions to spend. She's pretty clear about where all the money goes.

I;m no fan her music, but there's a lot of assumptions being kicked around here.

edit: which it appears someone is doing.

http://medeaconnection.com/needmoney.jpg

^ Just looking at this photo and seeing how many cards for other stuff she has lined up

xp: everyone read the breakdown and is pointing out that if she'd paid $35K to fill out the rest of her band, she'd still have $65K left over, which is well above the median US yearly salary

Also that's based on a million, she's on 1.2 at the moment.

Ok the rest of it looks pretty sensible. Really effing ambitious kickstarter, if you ask me!

Of course, all the money she makes on tour will be profit, but she deserves that if she's pre-funding the entire thing.

I got this recently (I'm on this mailing list for a Christian song parody band) -- what do you guys feel about this in comparison?:

"J. Jackson, lead singer for ApologetiX here.

I prayed a long time before writing this, so I hope you can take a moment and read it.

We try to never make our trials sound worse than they are, but frankly, our financial situation is dire.

This ministry supports six families and 17 children. Right now, some of those families, including my own, aren't getting their monthly paychecks. Other bills are overdue, too.

In this economy, ApologetiX has become increasingly dependent upon donations from fans."

Vinyl & CD releases sound pretty deluxe, art book, 7" vinyl mailorder series, 'arts & crafts', art shows, custom turntables (???), pretty amazing use of that money if you ask me!

Most offensive thing about the kickstarter is using the hand-written notes on posterboard. "Hello 2005 cellphone commercial."

Nobody on this thread (I think) is criticising the Kickstarter itself. I mean, she says she is CHOOSING to do it like it's some sort of martyrdom burden that she's putting on herself rather than her fans, which is a bit odd, but fair enough - you're making an artefact that people will treasure or whatever, if you have fans who want to back that then go for it. What people are criticising is the fact that she says she will bank $100k (and yes, AF is right, this is under the assumption she makes a million, and she made more than that), but then says she can't afford to pay a band. That is bullshit.

But it does seem like there's about 500k floating around in a mystery vortex.

also even if she WANTS to bank $100k, she could, uh, rebudget in other places and cut back on costumes or some other bullshit.

the other thing about the breakdown is that the up-front costs (product design and packaging, etc) she's fundraising for are entirely recoupable. they're all basically investments to enable greater future earnings. in the past, people have usually taken out loans or secured other forms of financial backing when they couldn't afford to fund their own for-profit art projects outright. she's getting her fans to pay for the manufacture of goods and provision of services that they will then re-buy! quite an amazing scheme/scam, tbh.

"If I sleep on friends couches" does not compute with "my album cost $250K"

The mystery vortex of her new car and house. Seriously though, emil.y otm.

suddenly a contendo appears and he's otm. that kickstarter is mostly expenses without profits.

"7"s cost $100 a unit" is absolutely the most insane thing I've ever heard. Gold-foil stamped 180-gram 2 x vinyl with full bleed full colour silkscreened fold-out packages and Swarovski crystal inserts will not run you $100 a unit.

Just someone explain how it costs $250k to prepare for a kickstarter?

she's getting her fans to pay for the manufacture of goods and provision of services that they will then re-buy! quite an amazing scheme/scam, tbh.

Not really. Because the fans that contribute to the kickstarter automatically get the goods she is producing when their done, they don't have to rebuy them.

re: 250k to run kickstarter, there are professional kickstarter firms that handle and promote your kickstarter projects now...

embarrassed at my egregious misuse of "they're"

BTW just incidentally, do they pay sales tax on on all this? THAT aspect of it does seem like a scheme.

Not really. Because the fans that contribute to the kickstarter automatically get the goods she is producing when their done, they don't have to rebuy them.

― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, September 13, 2012 4:48 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Right -- kickstarter "donations" include a pre-order of the album, and more in some cases.

you guys should check out http://yourkickstartersucks.tumblr.com as it makes it clear how amazing some things getting funding really are

Yeah, the Kickstarter isn't just a donation system, it's a pre-ordering goods system. But she will have surplus sales after that.

(A few xposts where others point out the same thing)

I like that ILMers feel qualified to decide what a fair wage is for a performing artist.

you wouldn't want to know what we think fair wages for lawyers are :)

fair point on the pre-order business, but not everyone who contributed to that 1.2 mil (or whatever) gets everything she's gonna use it to make/do, right? as i understand it, she's still using the money to make and do a lot of stuff that isn't pre-sold. i may have missed something crucial, though...

xxpost -- Given the number of ILMers posting who are performing artists one way or another, yeah, I'd say they do feel qualified for good reason.

Anyway I am:

a) totally pro-Kickstarter and Albini's statement is petty and weird

b) totally pro-high incomes for musicians and if Amanda Palmer is not banking $200K+ a year with the amount of fans she has and the amount of talent she possesses (which as far as I'm concerned is considerable) then I have several suggests on where she could trim production costs

c) feel like everything this woman has said on her Kickstarter page reads like she's a grifter. Anybody who's run a label or put out their own record would look at that in disgust.

Owen P wins thread, completely otm on all three counts.

what was the scope of the project when she was only asking for $100k?

xxpost -- Given the number of ILMers posting who are performing artists one way or another, yeah, I'd say they do feel qualified for good reason.

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, September 13, 2012 4:54 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

to set the upper limit?

I defer to Owen P.'s answer just now as making the case very well on all fronts.

7,000+ high-end CD-books & thank you cards cost about $15 a package to manufacture and ship. that’s $105,000.

BS? These guys say it would cost under $8k. Maybe not 'high-end' but still, that sounds about 5x more than it should be.
https://www.unifiedmanufacturing.com/products-page/product-category/cd-jewel-cases-folders-cd-jewel-case-clear-audio-cd-24-page-booklet-replication/

i dunno, albini's statement is more charitable than "she sounds like a grifter"

I guess people respect grifters more?

owen makes fair points (idk about "grifter" but otherwise). I still really don't see the big deal about getting musicians to do voluntarily and under no false pretenses do a couple hours of work (which they consider fun) for free.

She really missed an opportunity to offer "Play onstage with this rockstar!" and sell it for $50 or something.

Geeting musicians who want to go to the show anyway.

A lot of 1099s needed if everyone at every stop got 50 bucks.