amanda palmer's open poem to jonathan chait (and other crimes)

Oh look who helpfully provided an example of "people saying stupid things"

Anyway, as the man says, you all know where the FP button is.

I like the SNA link better, go back there and find a different thread. Fewer clicks than that annoying FP confirmation malarkey.

apart from this whole mess, "the idea of letting fans be your band, with or without pay, even" sounds like total garbage to me, but i don't really go for cult-y scene-y acts like this

I liked it better when we were all just mad at AP and laughing at Lefsetz. :(

what would be funny is if AP just told her fans to bring their instruments to the show and let them play along from the audience, like how people sing along with their favorite songs

She can totally deserve whatever she's getting, ire-wise, but $65,000 ... does she pay taxes on that? What's her gross? Whatever, it's not exactly pocketing $1.2 million. It's a living. And it's also less than the average salary of a Chicago public school teacher. ;)

That would actually be really cool.

xpost

Oh look who helpfully provided an example of "people saying stupid things"

you still owe me an apology, btw

The Grand Theft of the Grand Theft Orchestra?

contenderizer, what the fuck are you doing?

She can totally deserve whatever she's getting, ire-wise, but $65,000 ... does she pay taxes on that? What's her gross? Whatever, it's not exactly pocketing $1.2 million. It's a living. And it's also less than the average salary of a Chicago public school teacher. ;)

― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, September 13, 2012 9:10 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Ummm, so what? What's your point now? That's how much she would make fairly. As you say, it's a living (a living which actually sounds like bloody loads to me, but that's beside the point). It sounds like your point is that she should be allowed to exploit her workers if she wants to, in order to earn a better living than a teacher, because pop stars should OF COURSE earn more than teachers.

The Increasingly Accurately Named Orchestra

I think they still charge for tickets on this tour, $25 at a regional venue, doesn't sound too horribly pricey.

But.. I saw Steve Albini play at the same place for $12! controversy

She can totally deserve whatever she's getting, ire-wise, but $65,000 ... does she pay taxes on that? What's her gross? Whatever, it's not exactly pocketing $1.2 million. It's a living. And it's also less than the average salary of a Chicago public school teacher. ;)

The avg US wage for 2010 was $41,673.83. She's taking more than that home before tallying the expenses and profits on the tour and merchandising.

Maybe as things stand now, the tour is a massive money pit and she's going to end up netting something more like $40K, but I doubt it.

contenderizer, what the fuck are you doing?

New board description.

Oh yeah, the breakdown is on the Kickstarter

contenderizer, what the fuck are you doing?

talking to WCC

don’t forget: i’m CHOOSING to spend all this money making the packages fancy as shit….and i’m CHOOSING to tour this way. EXPENSIVELY.

And you're choosing not to pay your musicians, okay.

Speaking of Steve Albini

http://pitchfork.com/news/47845-steve-albini-slams-amanda-palmer-for-asking-fans-to-play-in-her-band-for-free/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+PitchforkLatestNews+%28Pitchfork%3A+Latest+News%29&utm_content=Google+Reader

Er, uh, that's exactly WHY we were talking about Albini.

"Don't encourage your audience to gather at a mud pit downstate and sell meth and blowjobs to each other - be more like GG Allin instead"

Hah, I'd missed that the kickstarter actually links Albini's "The Problem With Music".

hahaha that's perfect

Time to show all messages...

As a musician, I find it annoying, but not all that surprising. Getting paid in beer and hugs most of my life anyways, like most musicians. And yes if there are fans and it makes them happy then that's great. I personally wouldn't do it, but then again I haven never heard AP, and if the Boredoms were asking for musicians or something I'd jump at that chance. I think her big crime here is timing, coming right after a Kickstarter where her fans gave her $1.2 million dollars.

Is there a breakdown upthread about the spending on that? I'm really skeptical that she ends up with only $65,000 of that...

about that "show all messages" idea...

lol.

Ctrl-F 'breakdown' like you were on a house thread!

Hey, how about she brings in barstaff who like her and will work for free too? And security (qualified of course, but fans). And gets fans who like her to make her merch.

Then sells it.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/amandapalmer/amanda-palmer-the-new-record-art-book-and-tour/posts/232020

Hmm....immediately deducts $250,000 for "all of that behind-the-scenes stuff which just got us to DAY ONE of kickstarter"

.....okay. That seems to be the most-in depth description of that quarter of a million dollars.

Imma keep reading here...

I think people jumping on the million dollar thing (or that this is coming after her "making a million dollar")should read the breakdown of her budget and then maybe judge her based on that rather than assuming she's got millions to spend. She's pretty clear about where all the money goes.

I;m no fan her music, but there's a lot of assumptions being kicked around here.

edit: which it appears someone is doing.

http://medeaconnection.com/needmoney.jpg

^ Just looking at this photo and seeing how many cards for other stuff she has lined up

xp: everyone read the breakdown and is pointing out that if she'd paid $35K to fill out the rest of her band, she'd still have $65K left over, which is well above the median US yearly salary

Also that's based on a million, she's on 1.2 at the moment.

Ok the rest of it looks pretty sensible. Really effing ambitious kickstarter, if you ask me!

Of course, all the money she makes on tour will be profit, but she deserves that if she's pre-funding the entire thing.

I got this recently (I'm on this mailing list for a Christian song parody band) -- what do you guys feel about this in comparison?:

"J. Jackson, lead singer for ApologetiX here.

I prayed a long time before writing this, so I hope you can take a moment and read it.

We try to never make our trials sound worse than they are, but frankly, our financial situation is dire.

This ministry supports six families and 17 children. Right now, some of those families, including my own, aren't getting their monthly paychecks. Other bills are overdue, too.

In this economy, ApologetiX has become increasingly dependent upon donations from fans."

Vinyl & CD releases sound pretty deluxe, art book, 7" vinyl mailorder series, 'arts & crafts', art shows, custom turntables (???), pretty amazing use of that money if you ask me!

Most offensive thing about the kickstarter is using the hand-written notes on posterboard. "Hello 2005 cellphone commercial."

Nobody on this thread (I think) is criticising the Kickstarter itself. I mean, she says she is CHOOSING to do it like it's some sort of martyrdom burden that she's putting on herself rather than her fans, which is a bit odd, but fair enough - you're making an artefact that people will treasure or whatever, if you have fans who want to back that then go for it. What people are criticising is the fact that she says she will bank $100k (and yes, AF is right, this is under the assumption she makes a million, and she made more than that), but then says she can't afford to pay a band. That is bullshit.

But it does seem like there's about 500k floating around in a mystery vortex.

also even if she WANTS to bank $100k, she could, uh, rebudget in other places and cut back on costumes or some other bullshit.

the other thing about the breakdown is that the up-front costs (product design and packaging, etc) she's fundraising for are entirely recoupable. they're all basically investments to enable greater future earnings. in the past, people have usually taken out loans or secured other forms of financial backing when they couldn't afford to fund their own for-profit art projects outright. she's getting her fans to pay for the manufacture of goods and provision of services that they will then re-buy! quite an amazing scheme/scam, tbh.

"If I sleep on friends couches" does not compute with "my album cost $250K"

The mystery vortex of her new car and house. Seriously though, emil.y otm.

suddenly a contendo appears and he's otm. that kickstarter is mostly expenses without profits.

"7"s cost $100 a unit" is absolutely the most insane thing I've ever heard. Gold-foil stamped 180-gram 2 x vinyl with full bleed full colour silkscreened fold-out packages and Swarovski crystal inserts will not run you $100 a unit.

Just someone explain how it costs $250k to prepare for a kickstarter?

she's getting her fans to pay for the manufacture of goods and provision of services that they will then re-buy! quite an amazing scheme/scam, tbh.

Not really. Because the fans that contribute to the kickstarter automatically get the goods she is producing when their done, they don't have to rebuy them.

re: 250k to run kickstarter, there are professional kickstarter firms that handle and promote your kickstarter projects now...

embarrassed at my egregious misuse of "they're"

BTW just incidentally, do they pay sales tax on on all this? THAT aspect of it does seem like a scheme.

Not really. Because the fans that contribute to the kickstarter automatically get the goods she is producing when their done, they don't have to rebuy them.

― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, September 13, 2012 4:48 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Right -- kickstarter "donations" include a pre-order of the album, and more in some cases.

you guys should check out http://yourkickstartersucks.tumblr.com as it makes it clear how amazing some things getting funding really are