amanda palmer's open poem to jonathan chait (and other crimes)

love the idea of letting fans be your band, with or without pay, even if it's just a means of cheaping out on tour costs. this may devalue the efforts of working musicians, but not in a way i personally find objectionable. it's artistically interesting and, i imagine, makes a lot of people very happy. good enough for me.

if she's said some dumb stuff about it, that's a different matter. i'm going to take the controversial position that people shouldn't say dumb stuff.

Ironically, I have totally done free poster and t-shirt designs for bands I really loved, but usually in return for merch, and beer, and hugs.

It's like she wants to operate at that transactional level of the small band touring in a transit van when she's on a million dollar budget, which brings the cognitive dissonance.

I suspect the "turn up for soundcheck and play through it, make sure it's cool" thing is probably more due to some kind of perfectionism, but I am being turned more and more onto this woman's side just because of the vitriol of the people criticising her, which doesn't seem to be so much about what she's done as about ~her as a person~ and that's when I turn off.

this may devalue the efforts of working musicians, but not in a way i personally find objectionable.

Let me guess... you're not a musician?

i'm going to take the controversial position that people shouldn't say dumb stuff.

Yup, I really really wish you would take this position far more frequently, TBH. With a mirror in hand.

lol quality zing of contenderizer

any good songwriters out there!? haha!

I think Jon Anderson actually did something like this, setting his lyrics to MP3s fans sent him. Not sure how fair a shake they got, but there was some griping iirc.

which doesn't seem to be so much about what she's done as about ~her as a person~ and that's when I turn off.

I genuinely do not see much of this itt at all, people seem to be pretty clearly focused on the things she has actually said, posted, and done.

xposting

No, but you should probably spend some of it instead of getting everyone else to work for free and keeping it all for yourself.

Spending the money on tours, books, making records, etc. is not the same as "keeping it for yourself." I have no idea what she is spending her money on, but it's unfair to say "not spending it on brass section" or whatever is the same as "keeping it," is it?

Yup, I really really wish you would take this position far more frequently, TBH. With a mirror in hand.

hey, coming from the single most wretched "human being" on ILM, i have to take that as a compliment

but, she is a PERSON saying those things

Fuck off contenderizer.

Let me guess... you're not a musician?

― emil.y, Thursday, September 13, 2012 12:48 PM (2 minutes ago)

i am, but i don't make money at it. i do make money at other stuff (like writing) that i don't mind other people soliciting without promise of pay.

jon/via/chi OTM.

Fuck off contenderizer.

― emil.y, Thursday, September 13, 2012 12:51 PM (38 seconds ago)

um, no

Spending the money on tours, books, making records, etc. is not the same as "keeping it for yourself." I have no idea what she is spending her money on, but it's unfair to say "not spending it on brass section" or whatever is the same as "keeping it," is it?

Didn't she say she'd come away with a bankable $100k? And that the musicians she's replacing would cost about $35k? So yes, that is the same as keeping it, instead of paying 35 quid to people who are working for you and keeping 65 for yourself.

oh, contenderizerpaws.

Is she allowed to make money? How much?

jesus, contendo

I have no idea what she is spending her money on, but it's unfair to say "not spending it on brass section" or whatever is the same as "keeping it," is it?

There's a quite detailed (almost Albini-ish!) post where she breaks down the millions into what it will go on, including Kickstarter pledges and such, and ends with 100k for putting in the bank. So yay her for thinking that much, but it looks like she is explicitly counting on not paying for the horns+strings.

Is she allowed to make money? How much?

― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, September 13, 2012 8:56 PM (58 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

By her estimation, with fair pay, the answer to this is $65,000.

incidentally, what WAS AP's problem with robert smith anyway?

xp Flag Post button's there for a reason, folks.

Is she allowed to make money? How much?

― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, September 13, 2012 3:56 PM (12 seconds ago) Bookmark

you're allowed to do a lot of things... that doesn't exempt you from being criticized for being exploitive

btw all contendo did was clap back to a fair zing, what's the big deal

incidentally, what WAS AP's problem with robert smith anyway?

No problem -- she was and is a massive fan, and the post was about that!

I think he was crystal pepsi and she had to settle for regular pepsi.

oh. people don't usually write open letters for that!

xp

idk, calling someone the worst human being, in scare quotes no less, is a bit of an escalation from "don't say stupid things"

WCC should understand the nature of detente well enough not to fire shots

this is pt barnum level bullshit under the guise of 'fun'

― maura, Thursday, September 13, 2012 1:33 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I like this observation. She's so deep into the carny freakshow vibe that she even operates her business like one.

even going to have a fake siamese twin project

Oh look who helpfully provided an example of "people saying stupid things"

Anyway, as the man says, you all know where the FP button is.

I like the SNA link better, go back there and find a different thread. Fewer clicks than that annoying FP confirmation malarkey.

apart from this whole mess, "the idea of letting fans be your band, with or without pay, even" sounds like total garbage to me, but i don't really go for cult-y scene-y acts like this

I liked it better when we were all just mad at AP and laughing at Lefsetz. :(

what would be funny is if AP just told her fans to bring their instruments to the show and let them play along from the audience, like how people sing along with their favorite songs

She can totally deserve whatever she's getting, ire-wise, but $65,000 ... does she pay taxes on that? What's her gross? Whatever, it's not exactly pocketing $1.2 million. It's a living. And it's also less than the average salary of a Chicago public school teacher. ;)

That would actually be really cool.

xpost

Oh look who helpfully provided an example of "people saying stupid things"

you still owe me an apology, btw

The Grand Theft of the Grand Theft Orchestra?

contenderizer, what the fuck are you doing?

She can totally deserve whatever she's getting, ire-wise, but $65,000 ... does she pay taxes on that? What's her gross? Whatever, it's not exactly pocketing $1.2 million. It's a living. And it's also less than the average salary of a Chicago public school teacher. ;)

― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, September 13, 2012 9:10 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Ummm, so what? What's your point now? That's how much she would make fairly. As you say, it's a living (a living which actually sounds like bloody loads to me, but that's beside the point). It sounds like your point is that she should be allowed to exploit her workers if she wants to, in order to earn a better living than a teacher, because pop stars should OF COURSE earn more than teachers.

The Increasingly Accurately Named Orchestra

I think they still charge for tickets on this tour, $25 at a regional venue, doesn't sound too horribly pricey.

But.. I saw Steve Albini play at the same place for $12! controversy

She can totally deserve whatever she's getting, ire-wise, but $65,000 ... does she pay taxes on that? What's her gross? Whatever, it's not exactly pocketing $1.2 million. It's a living. And it's also less than the average salary of a Chicago public school teacher. ;)

The avg US wage for 2010 was $41,673.83. She's taking more than that home before tallying the expenses and profits on the tour and merchandising.

Maybe as things stand now, the tour is a massive money pit and she's going to end up netting something more like $40K, but I doubt it.

contenderizer, what the fuck are you doing?

New board description.

Oh yeah, the breakdown is on the Kickstarter

contenderizer, what the fuck are you doing?

talking to WCC

don’t forget: i’m CHOOSING to spend all this money making the packages fancy as shit….and i’m CHOOSING to tour this way. EXPENSIVELY.

And you're choosing not to pay your musicians, okay.

Speaking of Steve Albini

http://pitchfork.com/news/47845-steve-albini-slams-amanda-palmer-for-asking-fans-to-play-in-her-band-for-free/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+PitchforkLatestNews+%28Pitchfork%3A+Latest+News%29&utm_content=Google+Reader