amanda palmer's open poem to jonathan chait (and other crimes)

You're comparing apples to oranges here.

It seems like she's doing this in addition to her regular, paid band members. If her entire band were crowdsourced, you might have an argument.

Yeah, OotS has basically ground to a halt thanks to Kickstarter. Not that it hadn't ground to a halt a few times before, but it was just getting some momentum back up.

Dunno how this works re: Kickstarter, but isn't keeping to a budget the secret to indie success, whether you are Steve Albini or Jim Jarmusch or whomever? Your total net worth or total account is not the same as your budget. If I have $100 it doesn't mean I can or should spend $100.

i've never heard of drugstore so i guess it makes sense that they would need free drummers.

i'd play drums for free with anyone. what the hell do i care?

It is still professional musicians to a job vital to the gig though (what was the line about them being the support band about?) - it seems a few lines crossed from someone on a tambourine.

Drugstore are totally a thing, in the right circles.

If I have $100 it doesn't mean I can or should spend $100.

No, but you should probably spend some of it instead of getting everyone else to work for free and keeping it all for yourself.

And Drugstore were ace back in the day.

i'm surprised this hasn't been turned into one of those image things where people substitute their own
hilarious text:
http://waxy.org/random/images/weblog/patrons_into_producers-20120607-222204.png

White Magic for Lovers war pretty good.

She's willing to do this, are you?

this is like the argument that got bill maher kicked off of ABC, but backwards (and wrong)

i'm gonna look up drugstore. i like new things. or even new old things.

i can never tell what the hell lefsetz's point is, ever.

I don't think it's comparing apples to oranges, I think it's comparing tangerines to oranges. It's scaling up a small thing to a very large thing.

I think there were ways she could have expressed it that would have made her look less like a breadhead, in terms of making it more clear that it was about special-experience-for-fans.

But I have really mixed feelings about session players, despite (or because of) having been one.

Drugstore were/are ace, but the s/t first album was my favourite.

That he's a longwinded grouch. xp

I must admit I'd love to see AP haul up an excited fan to 'jam on a tune' and then berate them because they only took one year of tambourine in 5th grade

this whole thing is kinda the epitome of the notagoodlook thing. basically. people were already huffy about the million bucks. then this. she could have asked people more discreetly if they knew any good oboe players on her tour route or whatever and set the whole thing up herself and nobody would have been the wiser.

That he's a longwinded grouch. xp

― controversial cabaret roommate (Nicole), Thursday, September 13, 2012 2:34 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah well sure

he flips back and forth between internet futurist social blah blah shit and then whining about how it all used to be about hustle and grit and heart back in the old days before... well, what? before technology? guy makes no damn sense.

Wasn't Damo Suzuki's tour thing that he'd just show up and basically jam with a band at each tour date? I think they got paid, though.

If it was "pull a volunteer from the audience and have them play on a song" it's a lot different from "learn a part, come here around soundcheck, make sure it's cool." If they don't have anyone volunteer at a tour date, are they doing the songs without those parts? I guess that's the key, if the band can't play without these essential parts, then they're basically leaning on scab musicians to do it for free.

I mean, I don't really begrudge her or give a shit, but I certainly get why people are calling this out.

scott crazy otm as usual

He's like this weird combination of an aging hippie and an earnest freshman with his first internet connection.

(xpost re Lefsetz)

and she seems creative so she just should have been more creative. she could have picked two lucky fan/musicans to travel the country in an amanda palmer-mobile and paid them and the fans could have set up a youtube channel charting their magical journey and all her fans would of thought it was the coolest thing in the world. you gotta think outside the box when it comes to the future of music.

god remember when that type of dude used to be thick on the ground? mondo 2000!!

idk, it'd be pretty funny if she did the kickstarter and then tried to crowdsource the materials for the album, too

"So this poster we're giving away. We love the artistic potential of our fans, would YOU like to submit some awesome poster designs?!?"

R.U. Sirius?

(xpost)

any good songwriters out there!? haha!

Wasn't Damo Suzuki's tour thing that he'd just show up and basically jam with a band at each tour date? I think they got paid, though.

I know loads of people who have played with him but none of them seem to be on facebook at the moment, so I can't get a definitive answer to this. Grrr.

any of my fans have an amazing recording studio i can use? xxxtra hugs if you do, lol!

that apple/microsoft/atlas shrugged/iphone digression in the middle of the lefsetz post is a thing of total beauty

/flying bmws

my right eyebrow tattoo got a scratch from my cat and the scar shows up. anyone know a sweet tattoo artist to touch this up before I go on tour? get in touch!

love the idea of letting fans be your band, with or without pay, even if it's just a means of cheaping out on tour costs. this may devalue the efforts of working musicians, but not in a way i personally find objectionable. it's artistically interesting and, i imagine, makes a lot of people very happy. good enough for me.

if she's said some dumb stuff about it, that's a different matter. i'm going to take the controversial position that people shouldn't say dumb stuff.

Ironically, I have totally done free poster and t-shirt designs for bands I really loved, but usually in return for merch, and beer, and hugs.

It's like she wants to operate at that transactional level of the small band touring in a transit van when she's on a million dollar budget, which brings the cognitive dissonance.

I suspect the "turn up for soundcheck and play through it, make sure it's cool" thing is probably more due to some kind of perfectionism, but I am being turned more and more onto this woman's side just because of the vitriol of the people criticising her, which doesn't seem to be so much about what she's done as about ~her as a person~ and that's when I turn off.

this may devalue the efforts of working musicians, but not in a way i personally find objectionable.

Let me guess... you're not a musician?

i'm going to take the controversial position that people shouldn't say dumb stuff.

Yup, I really really wish you would take this position far more frequently, TBH. With a mirror in hand.

lol quality zing of contenderizer

any good songwriters out there!? haha!

I think Jon Anderson actually did something like this, setting his lyrics to MP3s fans sent him. Not sure how fair a shake they got, but there was some griping iirc.

which doesn't seem to be so much about what she's done as about ~her as a person~ and that's when I turn off.

I genuinely do not see much of this itt at all, people seem to be pretty clearly focused on the things she has actually said, posted, and done.

xposting

No, but you should probably spend some of it instead of getting everyone else to work for free and keeping it all for yourself.

Spending the money on tours, books, making records, etc. is not the same as "keeping it for yourself." I have no idea what she is spending her money on, but it's unfair to say "not spending it on brass section" or whatever is the same as "keeping it," is it?

Yup, I really really wish you would take this position far more frequently, TBH. With a mirror in hand.

hey, coming from the single most wretched "human being" on ILM, i have to take that as a compliment

but, she is a PERSON saying those things

Fuck off contenderizer.

Let me guess... you're not a musician?

― emil.y, Thursday, September 13, 2012 12:48 PM (2 minutes ago)

i am, but i don't make money at it. i do make money at other stuff (like writing) that i don't mind other people soliciting without promise of pay.

jon/via/chi OTM.

Fuck off contenderizer.

― emil.y, Thursday, September 13, 2012 12:51 PM (38 seconds ago)

um, no

Spending the money on tours, books, making records, etc. is not the same as "keeping it for yourself." I have no idea what she is spending her money on, but it's unfair to say "not spending it on brass section" or whatever is the same as "keeping it," is it?

Didn't she say she'd come away with a bankable $100k? And that the musicians she's replacing would cost about $35k? So yes, that is the same as keeping it, instead of paying 35 quid to people who are working for you and keeping 65 for yourself.

oh, contenderizerpaws.

Is she allowed to make money? How much?

jesus, contendo

I have no idea what she is spending her money on, but it's unfair to say "not spending it on brass section" or whatever is the same as "keeping it," is it?

There's a quite detailed (almost Albini-ish!) post where she breaks down the millions into what it will go on, including Kickstarter pledges and such, and ends with 100k for putting in the bank. So yay her for thinking that much, but it looks like she is explicitly counting on not paying for the horns+strings.