amanda palmer's open poem to jonathan chait (and other crimes)

There are actually way too many idiotic things in there to go through it seriously. But that is an awful, awful defence.

It's about a one time event, a happening.

I immediately stop listening to and/or respecting the opinion of anyone who uses the term "a happening".

Oh Lefsetz now, this whole thing is like a dog whistle for the blowhards.

i don't think anyone holds it against an ilxor for once having a controversial cabaret roommate. i mentioned it on the kickstarter thread.

x-post

i mean i kinda feel bad if they are friends, but musicians making news is gonna get reactions from people here.

I immediately stop listening to and/or respecting the opinion of anyone who uses the term "a happening".

― NR’s resident heavy-metal expert (Nicole), Thursday, September 13, 2012 8:16 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Awww. I really like bandying about that term. I also call people "hepcats" sometimes. You probably hate me now.

Fancy a jazz cigarette, cat?

Palmer can clearly record and tour without asking for cash. I guess that's the issue, right? Anyway, overlooked here is that Palmer asked fans for a slightly more modest (though not nothing) $100,000 for a book, album and tour, and ended up getting over ten times that. I just read a piece recently - in Wired? - on all the problems that arise when Kickstarter campaigns raise far more than asked for. Doesn't Kickstarter have some sort of cut-off?

This is going to x-post to all hell but...

I'm really of two minds about this.

Because, as a fan, and someone who has been around fandom of the sort of obsessive fans that follow bands around on tour and actually beg for the right to sell t-shirts on tour - I think the idea of inviting fans onstage to play along with their idol is amazing, it's beautiful. Speaking as someone who, well - one of the crowning ~amazing fan moments~ of my life was the time that I got to play drums for Drugstore, pulled up out of the audience as a volunteer. And that's something I will treasure forever. So the idea of doing that with two fans, every night for a whole tour, that's fantastic, it's the kind of reward that obsessive fans will carry around with them for a lifetime. Great idea.

But the money thing... that whole thing, the comments and her reaction has been, well, bad. Because if she had turned around and said "it's not about the fucking money, it's about giving two obsessive fans the experience of a lifetime EVERY DAMN NIGHT for a whole tour!" I would have said YOU GO, GIRL. But the moment she starts whinging about $35k when she has a budget of $1.2 million, that puts her on totally the wrong foot. But it wasn't *her* that brought the money into the conversation in the first place, it sounds like a lot of butthurt session players, which, fair enough, I've been a session player, you don't have to volunteer for those jobs. But it doesn't cheapen you and your job to have someone decide to give fans the night of their life. But her poorly handled reaction changed this from "giving fans the night of their lives" to "chump change from a millionaire."

But poorly handled reactions to criticism seem to be her stock in trade. I'm hardly one to point fingers on that count, so I can certainly understand.

No, I couldn't hate you. But when aging blowhards like Lefsetz use it is the worst. xxxp

def on the same page as you, scott, just kind of weird connection that I should forget for the context of this

This is that Wired piece: http://www.wired.com/design/2012/07/st_kickstarter/

Can't you just program/ask Kickstarter to cut off at your goal?

But it doesn't cheapen you and your job to have someone decide to give fans the night of their life.

Except it absolutely does cheapen. I'm with most of your post, but I think you are 100% wrong with this line.

"it wasn't *her* that brought the money into the conversation in the first place"

Have you not seen her THIS IS THE FUTURE OF MUSIC grandstanding re: her Kickstarter campaign?

So it cheapens professional drummers when the BJM decide to let a fan play tambourine onstage for a night? Really?

― controversial cabaret roommate (Nicole),

props for this, btw, you beat me by about 25 seconds

Did I cheapen all musicians everywhere by volunteering to play drums for Drugstore, instead of asking for musicians' union pay?

So it cheapens professional drummers when the BJM decide to let a fan play tambourine onstage for a night? Really?

When you do it over the extent of your entire tour and take jobs away from working musicians, yes, it absolutely does.

You're comparing apples to oranges here.

It seems like she's doing this in addition to her regular, paid band members. If her entire band were crowdsourced, you might have an argument.

Yeah, OotS has basically ground to a halt thanks to Kickstarter. Not that it hadn't ground to a halt a few times before, but it was just getting some momentum back up.

Dunno how this works re: Kickstarter, but isn't keeping to a budget the secret to indie success, whether you are Steve Albini or Jim Jarmusch or whomever? Your total net worth or total account is not the same as your budget. If I have $100 it doesn't mean I can or should spend $100.

i've never heard of drugstore so i guess it makes sense that they would need free drummers.

i'd play drums for free with anyone. what the hell do i care?

It is still professional musicians to a job vital to the gig though (what was the line about them being the support band about?) - it seems a few lines crossed from someone on a tambourine.

Drugstore are totally a thing, in the right circles.

If I have $100 it doesn't mean I can or should spend $100.

No, but you should probably spend some of it instead of getting everyone else to work for free and keeping it all for yourself.

And Drugstore were ace back in the day.

i'm surprised this hasn't been turned into one of those image things where people substitute their own
hilarious text:
http://waxy.org/random/images/weblog/patrons_into_producers-20120607-222204.png

White Magic for Lovers war pretty good.

She's willing to do this, are you?

this is like the argument that got bill maher kicked off of ABC, but backwards (and wrong)

i'm gonna look up drugstore. i like new things. or even new old things.

i can never tell what the hell lefsetz's point is, ever.

I don't think it's comparing apples to oranges, I think it's comparing tangerines to oranges. It's scaling up a small thing to a very large thing.

I think there were ways she could have expressed it that would have made her look less like a breadhead, in terms of making it more clear that it was about special-experience-for-fans.

But I have really mixed feelings about session players, despite (or because of) having been one.

Drugstore were/are ace, but the s/t first album was my favourite.

That he's a longwinded grouch. xp

I must admit I'd love to see AP haul up an excited fan to 'jam on a tune' and then berate them because they only took one year of tambourine in 5th grade

this whole thing is kinda the epitome of the notagoodlook thing. basically. people were already huffy about the million bucks. then this. she could have asked people more discreetly if they knew any good oboe players on her tour route or whatever and set the whole thing up herself and nobody would have been the wiser.

That he's a longwinded grouch. xp

― controversial cabaret roommate (Nicole), Thursday, September 13, 2012 2:34 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah well sure

he flips back and forth between internet futurist social blah blah shit and then whining about how it all used to be about hustle and grit and heart back in the old days before... well, what? before technology? guy makes no damn sense.

Wasn't Damo Suzuki's tour thing that he'd just show up and basically jam with a band at each tour date? I think they got paid, though.

If it was "pull a volunteer from the audience and have them play on a song" it's a lot different from "learn a part, come here around soundcheck, make sure it's cool." If they don't have anyone volunteer at a tour date, are they doing the songs without those parts? I guess that's the key, if the band can't play without these essential parts, then they're basically leaning on scab musicians to do it for free.

I mean, I don't really begrudge her or give a shit, but I certainly get why people are calling this out.

scott crazy otm as usual

He's like this weird combination of an aging hippie and an earnest freshman with his first internet connection.

(xpost re Lefsetz)

and she seems creative so she just should have been more creative. she could have picked two lucky fan/musicans to travel the country in an amanda palmer-mobile and paid them and the fans could have set up a youtube channel charting their magical journey and all her fans would of thought it was the coolest thing in the world. you gotta think outside the box when it comes to the future of music.

god remember when that type of dude used to be thick on the ground? mondo 2000!!

idk, it'd be pretty funny if she did the kickstarter and then tried to crowdsource the materials for the album, too

"So this poster we're giving away. We love the artistic potential of our fans, would YOU like to submit some awesome poster designs?!?"

R.U. Sirius?

(xpost)

any good songwriters out there!? haha!

Wasn't Damo Suzuki's tour thing that he'd just show up and basically jam with a band at each tour date? I think they got paid, though.

I know loads of people who have played with him but none of them seem to be on facebook at the moment, so I can't get a definitive answer to this. Grrr.

any of my fans have an amazing recording studio i can use? xxxtra hugs if you do, lol!

that apple/microsoft/atlas shrugged/iphone digression in the middle of the lefsetz post is a thing of total beauty

/flying bmws

my right eyebrow tattoo got a scratch from my cat and the scar shows up. anyone know a sweet tattoo artist to touch this up before I go on tour? get in touch!

love the idea of letting fans be your band, with or without pay, even if it's just a means of cheaping out on tour costs. this may devalue the efforts of working musicians, but not in a way i personally find objectionable. it's artistically interesting and, i imagine, makes a lot of people very happy. good enough for me.

if she's said some dumb stuff about it, that's a different matter. i'm going to take the controversial position that people shouldn't say dumb stuff.