1980'S ROCK POLL ALBUMS/TRACKS VOTING THREAD. (Voting closes September 20) (all welcome to vote inc Lurkers)

I don't follow RS at all, so I was using an admittedly outdated, half-remembered version of the RS canon. if you'd like, you can substitute the 10:1 Black Flag to GNR ratio, which definitely corresponds to a "Forget the Rolling Stone Canon" list (at least until Damaged is included five or ten or fifteen years from now). my only "thought" about the RS canon is that I've always loathed it in all its manifestations.

ILM Albums of the 1980s
Now this is how it started: THE ILX 1980s ALBUM POLL RESULTS!!

100. Robyn Hitchcock - I Often Dream of Trains [1984] (75 points, 5 votes)
98. (tie) Scraping Foetus off the Wheel - Hole [1984] (76 points, 5 votes)
98. (tie) Spacemen 3 - The Perfect Prescription [1987] (76 points, 5 votes)
97. Big Black - Atomizer [1986] (77 points, 8 votes)
96. Associates - Sulk [1982] (79 points, 6 votes)
95. Jane's Addiction - Nothing's Shocking [1988] (79 points, 7 votes)
94. Def Leppard - Pyromania [1983] (80 points, 6 votes, 1 first place vote)
93. Thomas Dolby - The Golden Age of Wireless [1982] (80 points, 7 votes, 1 first place vote)
92. Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark - Dazzle Ships [1983] (80 points, 9 votes)
91. Run-D.M.C. - Raising Hell [1986] (80 points, 10 votes)
90. Meat Puppets - Meat Puppets II [1984] (81 points, 9 votes)
89. Prince and the Revolution - Parade [1986] (83 points, 10 votes)
88. Bruce Springsteen - Tunnel of Love [1987] (86 points, 7 votes)
87. Pet Shop Boys - Actually [1987] (86 points, 8 votes)
86. Pet Shop Boys - Please [1986] (87 points, 8 votes)
84. (tie) Nine Inch Nails - Pretty Hate Machine [1989] (87 points, 8 votes, 1 first place vote)
84. (tie) Talking Heads - Speaking in Tongues [1983] (87 points, 8 votes, 1 first place vote)
83. David Bowie - Scary Monsters [1980] (89 points, 6 votes, 1 first place vote)
82. Scraping Foetus off the Wheel - Nail [1985] (91 points, 5 votes, 1 first place vote)
81. The Beat (aka The English Beat) - I Just Can't Stop It [1980] (91 points, 13 votes)
80. Various - The Indestructible Beat of Soweto [1985] (93 points, 6 votes, 1 first place vote)
79. The The - Soul Mining [1983] (93 points, 7 votes, 1 first place vote)
78. The Pogues - Rum, Sodomy & the Lash [1985] (93 points, 16 votes)
77. Meat Puppets - Up on the Sun [1985] (94 points, 8 votes)
76. U2 - The Joshua Tree [1987] (95 points, 7 votes, 1 first place vote)
75. Cyndi Lauper - She's So Unusual [1983] (95 points, 9 votes)
74. Galaxie 500 - On Fire [1989] (96 points, 10 votes)
73. X - Wild Gift [1981] (97 points, 9 votes)
72. The Chills - Kaleidoscope World [1986] (98 points, 7 votes, 1 first place vote)
71. Roxy Music - Avalon [1982] (99 points, 10 votes)
70. Laurie Anderson - Big Science [1982] (99 points, 11 votes)
69. Scritti Politti - Cupid & Psyche 85 [1985] (100 points, 7 votes)
68. New Order - Power, Corruption & Lies [1983] (100 points, 16 votes)
67. Violent Femmes - Violent Femmes [1983] (101 points, 12 votes)
66. Prefab Sprout - Steve McQueen [1985] (104 points, 10 votes, 1 first place vote)
65. Donald Fagen - The Nightfly [1982] (105 points, 8 votes, 1 first place vote)
63. (tie) Tom Waits - Rain Dogs [1985] (106 points, 12 votes)
63. (tie) Cocteau Twins - Treasure [1984] (106 points, 12 votes)
62. Grace Jones - Nightclubbing [1981] (106 points, 12 votes, 1 first place vote)
61. Arthur Russell - World of Echo [1986] (108 points, 11 votes, 1 first place vote)
60. Eric B. & Rakim - Paid In Full [1987] (111 points, 8 votes, 1 first place vote)
59. Mekons - Fear and Whiskey [1985] (111 points, 8 votes, 2 first place votes)
58. The Cure - Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me [1987] (112 points, 7 votes, 2 first place votes)
57. Arvo Pärt - Tabula Rasa [1984] (112 points, 9 votes, 1 first place vote)
56. R.E.M. - Lifes Rich Pageant [1986] (112 points, 12 votes)
55. Dinosaur Jr. - You're Living All Over Me [1987] (115 points, 13 votes)
54. Bruce Springsteen - Born in the U.S.A. [1984] (118 points, 14 votes)
53. Bruce Springsteen - Nebraska [1982] (120 points, 14 votes)
52. Brian Eno / David Byrne - My Life in the Bush of Ghosts [1981] (120 points, 17 votes)
51. Leonard Cohen - I'm Your Man [1988] (121 points, 11 votes)
50. The Feelies - Crazy Rhythms [1980] (123 points, 13 votes)
49. The Go-Betweens - 16 Lovers Lane [1988] (125 points, 9 votes, 1 first place vote)
48. XTC - Skylarking [1986] (127 points, 16 votes)
47. Steely Dan - Gaucho [1980] (128 points, 9 votes)
46. R.E.M. - Reckoning [1984] (131 points, 14 votes)
45. Captain Beefheart and the Magic Band - Doc at the Radar Station [1980] (133 points, 11 votes)
44. The Fall - This Nation's Saving Grace [1985] (136 points, 13 votes)
43. Sonic Youth - EVOL [1986] (143 points, 12 votes, 1 first place vote)
42. Hüsker Dü - New Day Rising [1985] (146 points, 14 votes)
41. The Cure - Pornography [1982] (148 points, 9 votes)
40. Dexy’s Midnight Runners - Searching for the Young Soul Rebels [1980] (148 points, 11 votes, 1 first place vote)
39. Manuel Göttsching - E2-E4 [1984] (154 points, 12 votes, 2 first place votes)
38. New Order - Substance [1987] (156 points, 16 votes)
37. De La Soul - 3 Feet High and Rising [1989] (164 points, 23 votes)
36. The Fall - Hex Enduction Hour [1982] (166 points, 14 votes, 1 first place vote)
35. ABC - The Lexicon of Love [1982] (173 points, 11 votes, 1 first place vote)
34. The Smiths - Hatful of Hollow [1984] (173 points, 16 votes)
33. The Smiths - Louder Than Bombs [1987] (174 points, 20 votes)
32. Prince - 1999 [1982] (191 points, 17 votes, 1 first place vote)
31. Sonic Youth - Sister [1987] (199 points, 21 votes, 1 first place vote)
30. Hüsker Dü - Zen Arcade [1984] (200 points, 13 votes)
29. Young Marble Giants - Colossal Youth [1980] (200 points, 17 votes, 1 first place vote)
28. The Stone Roses - The Stone Roses [1989] (201 points, 15 votes, 2 first place votes)
27. Guns N' Roses - Appetite for Destruction [1987] (201 points, 18 votes)
26. Prince - Dirty Mind [1980] (210 points, 14 votes, 1 first place vote)
25. The Clash - Sandinista! [1980] (211 points, 11 votes, 3 first place votes)
24. The Cure - Disintegration [1989] (218 points, 19 votes, 1 first place vote)
23. The Human League - Dare [1981] (219 points, 17 votes, 2 first place votes)
22. My Bloody Valentine - Isn't Anything [1988] (229 points, 19 votes, 2 first place votes)
21. Paul Simon - Graceland [1986] (237 points, 17 votes, 1 first place vote)
20. The Jesus and Mary Chain - Psychocandy [1985] (243 points, 23 votes, 1 first place vote)
19. The Replacements - Let It Be [1984] (252 points, 18 votes, 1 first place vote)
18. Joy Division - Closer [1980] (255 points, 24 votes)
17. Kate Bush - The Dreaming [1982] (269 points, 13 votes, 3 first place votes)
16. New Order - Technique [1989] (273 points, 15 votes, 2 first place votes)
15. Pixies - Surfer Rosa [1988] (273 points, 21 votes, 1 first place vote)
14. Talk Talk - Spirit of Eden [1988] (274 points, 18 votes, 2 first place votes)
13. Beastie Boys - Paul's Boutique [1989] (291 points, 25 votes, 1 first place vote)
12. Minutemen - Double Nickels on the Dime [1984] (300 points, 15 votes, 3 first place votes)
11. The Smiths - The Queen is Dead [1986] (307 points, 26 votes, 1 first place vote)
10. Pixies – Doolittle [1989] (323 points, 31 votes)
9. Michael Jackson - Thriller [1982] (331 points, 35 votes)
8. Kraftwerk - Computer World [1981] (338 points, 29 votes)
7. Sonic Youth - Daydream Nation [1988] (356 points, 28 votes, 3 first place votes)
6. R.E.M. - Murmur [1983] (359 points, 30 votes, 2 first place votes)
5. Prince - Sign “O” the Times [1987] (381 points, 28 votes, 2 first place votes)
4. Kate Bush - Hounds of Love [1985] (422 points, 35 votes, 2 first place votes)
3. Prince and the Revolution - Purple Rain [1984] (423 points, 35 votes, 2 first place votes)
2. Public Enemy - It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back [1988] (478 points, 39 votes, 2 first place votes)
1. Talking Heads - Remain in Light [1980] (568 points, 37 votes, 4 first place votes)

I don't follow RS at all, so I was using an admittedly outdated, half-remembered version of the RS canon. if you'd like, you can substitute the 10:1 Black Flag to GNR ratio, which definitely corresponds to a "Forget the Rolling Stone Canon" list (at least until Damaged is included five or ten or fifteen years from now). my only "thought" about the RS canon is that I've always loathed it in all its manifestations.

IN the UK we use Q as the equivalent though I think Mojo might have taken over that mantle. You could get Rolling Stone and Spin in smiths/menzies but I dont know anyone who bought them regularly.

RS does seem to stand for boredom and in particular 1 guys view from what american friends always say.

Jann Wenner, right?

look, add whatever you'd like. I don't think I'm way off w/r/t the confusion surrounding the conceptual basis of the poll, and how, at this point, some stability might be beneficial. I'm really not looking for an involved argument about the shifting nature of the RS canon, or w/e. I'm merely saying that making very arbitrary last-minute additions is problematic, which I think you already acknowledge. and RS doesn't just "stand" for boredom, it actively cultivates it with zeal.

making additions to the poll at this point probably won't make a bit of difference either way. I just threw out my off-the-cuff thoughts. I'm actually hoping the poll goes well, and of course I'm really hoping to see some genuinely anti-RS albums and tracks make a good showing.

What do you all think of Spin through the ages and their canon?

See the next time I do a poll will someone remind me that when doing a youtube companion thread, that It should be shortened links only instead of embeds as the threads are murder to open?

What do you all think of Spin through the ages and their canon?

Spin initially positioned itself in the market as the anti-RS, and its lists have always been a little more interesting. the mag was definitely more engaging in the first few years, with the Byron Coley reviews and features on Foetus and whatnot, but it fairly quickly fell in lockstep with the ascendant alt. culture, and I stopped reading shortly after that. now they seem more like Pfork, which at this point is probably more mainstream than RS (a debatable point, but w/e). their recent 100 Greatest Guitarists of All Time article is seemingly tailor-made for a noise curmudgeon like myself, but it would've actually had some edge thirty years ago. now it seems weirdly sentimental, and feels a lot like the lists RS was publishing in the 80s (in terms of targeting a very specific demographic). how that list is actually different from the list of tracks that I nominated is a good question without an easy answer. I think that I'm less interested in a classics-for-classics-sake approach (even w/r/t "alt." culture), and more interested in the actual music. but I could also be delusional. to get back to your question, I think that although Spin is more interesting than RS, they still have that stultifying urge to dominate the politics of canonization, which dulls their approach considerably.

I'm pretty damn sure Whiney will be working to change that. Heard lots of good things about recent Spin. The irony being wh smiths no longer stocks it here. It still does Rolling Stone but it stopped selling Spin, Hit Parader, Metal Edge years ago. (do the latter 2 still exist?)

The bigger smiths in big cities may well still stock them btw just not the towns like mine. They only still get The Wire cuz I kicked up a fuss when they stopped getting it.

Music magazines are getting to the stage where its nearly as hard here to buy them as cd's.

Is it any different elsewhere?

I think canonization requires a certain amount of mindless repetition, which results in records like Daydream Nation being pushed as the "best" SY album for over twenty years with nary a dissenting voice. this is why engaging in the politics of canonization is so fucking boring (and why Spin is still so boring, even though it's slightly more interesting than RS).

xxxp

Yeah DN is nowhere near my fave SY.

NME used to push warehouse as the best Husker Du and it's my least fave. Also the queen is dead isnt as good as the debut album to me. So I see what you're getting at. 1st Joy Division is better than Closer i think.

Still, at least people finally realised Sgt Peppers is a pile of shite and Revolver is better.......... except Rolling Stone still thinks Sgt Peppers is best, right?

The thing is, are these magazines just representing what their readers think or are they just influencing them? If you poll most people (inc ilm) they would pick daydream nation for instance.

yeah, well that particular point brings us back to the recent Pfork poll, and the clusterfuck that ensued. I don't really have anything to add to that mess, but w/r/t Daydream Nation, the record's predominance among both critics and listeners has always had a circular nature, and when combined with an almost wholesale lack of criticism from major publications has created a monster (which means it will eventually get knocked down rather forcefully, I imagine).

*which, when combined, ugh

I've never liked Daydream Nation. Sister was the last good one. Anyone who can't hear that doesn't have ears or never heard the first 3 albums.

It's a great record and I'd hate to see it knocked down, but Sister, Evol deserve as much praise. And then there's been great 90s and 00s albums.

I know I'm wasting my time but I'd love to see a couple of Candlemass, Saint Vitus and Trouble albums make our poll so I'm urging the doom metal fans to vote for the key albums in the genre and introduce them to people who have not heard them.

https://www.burningshed.com/covers/large1751.jpg
http://karlssonz.se/images/10859f.gif
http://www.metalkingdom.net/album/cover/d49/19650_saint_vitus_saint_vitus.jpg
http://www.cargo-records.de/cover/00016184.jpg
http://www.herbmusic.net/album/cover/2012/04/4239_trouble_psalm_9.jpg

Actually what a great way to try boost albums. Post a (300x300 preferably) pic of the album cover of the albums you want people to check out/vote for.

In all my previous polls boosting has worked! Just ask aldo & jeff for starters.

xp to a doom metal guy who half agreed with me on sonic youth haha.

Hey Nate the Neurosis album you like before you think they got shit is nominated!

Pedantic shit - The album title is Dead Kennedys - Fresh Fruit For Rotting Vegetables, not "Rotten"

also I don't want to rock the boat here, but is that seriously the only nommed Dead Kennedys album?!

yeah you didn't nominate any of them jjj

Try get djp not to do his usual nominate but forget to vote thing too :)

Fucking hell I just assumed they had all been nommed, arrrgghhh

never assume! The nominations period was long enough. More people should have paid attention to the thread and read it more often.

I get the feeling as far as ILM goes for the 80s people generally prefer mainstream rock,pop/synthpop and indie pop.

Actually maybe ilm consensus with the 80s canon is closer than with other decades?

daydream nation was inducted into the library of congress archive of historically important records or w/e

ultimately everyone who isn't the rolling stones gets to have one famous canonical album and in this instance it is apt

wrt the thing itself, it does usefully encapsulate sonic youth......the name, the richter cover, the sprawl of it, the vaulting ambition mostly realized; its structural integrity is greater than any of their other lps

And it's nowhere as good as the two albums before it.

well sylvie and babs by NWW is also not nommed so trust me i am angry at myself for not nomming that, but the dk oversight is kind of a poll-breaking omission imo.

daydream nation was inducted into the library of congress archive of historically important records or w/e

ultimately everyone who isn't the rolling stones gets to have one famous canonical album and in this instance it is apt

wrt the thing itself, it does usefully encapsulate sonic youth......the name, the richter cover, the sprawl of it, the vaulting ambition mostly realized; its structural integrity is greater than any of their other lps

unfortunately, I really don't have time atm to get into this, but the Library-of-Congress BS is just tautological nonsense outside of the realm of aesthetic discourse per se. I would say the record is "numbingly boring" instead of "sprawling". I also know that trad. critics go nuts for those double albums and see the form as inherently more serious than single albums, but SY's musical ambitions by that point had actually shrunk compared with the earlier records. their pop ambitions, though, had soared. and that's my problem with both pop criticism and canon building, which are almost inextricable: they both are heavily engaged w/extra-musical concerns. I like SY the form-destroying rock band, not the SY that writes catchy pop tunes. I don't expect you to agree w/me at all, but this is essentially where I'm coming from. I'm generalizing all over the place b/c I have to run, but I'm essentially looking at SY from the opposite side of the street, so to speak.

Please expand on that later!

unfortunately, I really don't have time atm to get into this, but the Library-of-Congress BS is just tautological nonsense outside of the realm of aesthetic discourse per se

lol heaven forfend the pure realm of 'aesthetic discourse' be infringed

you will have noticed that the LOC citation was wrt the construction of reputation rather aesthetics

Born Too Late was the first album I checked out because of this poll. It's great! (Mercyful Fate's Melissa was the second and is also good. I already knew and loved King Diamond's Abigail.)

It's funny: I was saying all these things about Daydream Nation on this board 12 years ago or so. Now that I'm nowhere near as much of a SY fanatic, I enjoy throwing on DN sometimes as just this epic rock album, something like an alternative Zep IV, which was how I originally liked it when I was 16. Looking at it that way, I was thinking of ranking it #1 on my ballot. Evol still moves and impresses me more, although I never really think of it as a 'rocking' album. I think "Schizophrenia" is the single best song they ever did.

ha that is scarily close to how my thoughts abt sonic youth have developed

If you dig Born Too Late Then make sure you listen to Saint Vitus (wino isn't on it but it's awesome) V is great too

And do check out all the Candlemass and Trouble albums as they're essential and rank in every doom top 10 ever.

Actually the 1st Candlemass and Trouble albums do get in most metal top 100s. Though I doubt they sold many, but their influence was massive for sure.

I tried to nominate as many things as I could but I have some pretty big blinders -- most of the stuff I thought of nominating turned out to actually have been made in the early 90s. I'm pretty stoked that Re*Ac*Tor is nominated, though!

btw I am still working on the albums playlist but I'm only to the Cs...

I hope it's finished by the end of voting!

I'm deep in the D's now!

Counting really quickly, I've heard about 88 of the nominated albums in their entirety. I'm working through the Saint Vitus debut right now, which is awesome.

Told ya!

They ruffled some feathers being on SST and supporting Black Flag. Nowadays all the vitus fans i know are flag fans too

Some Dude are you checking any albums out?

::rolls eyes, sighs loudly, turns off the laptop, goes to bed::

not last night then he didnt(which is what i was asking but n/m)

unfortunately, I really don't have time atm to get into this, but the Library-of-Congress BS is just tautological nonsense outside of the realm of aesthetic discourse per se. I would say the record is "numbingly boring" instead of "sprawling". I also know that trad. critics go nuts for those double albums and see the form as inherently more serious than single albums, but SY's musical ambitions by that point had actually shrunk compared with the earlier records. their pop ambitions, though, had soared. and that's my problem with both pop criticism and canon building, which are almost inextricable: they both are heavily engaged w/extra-musical concerns. I like SY the form-destroying rock band, not the SY that writes catchy pop tunes. I don't expect you to agree w/me at all, but this is essentially where I'm coming from. I'm generalizing all over the place b/c I have to run, but I'm essentially looking at SY from the opposite side of the street, so to speak.

― Hellhouse, Saturday, September 1, 2012 7:36 PM (Yesterday)

didn't reply to this in full earlier so

if u don't actually listen to rock music that much, it is striking to find all of these betrayal narratives and essentialist fallacies

they were releasing madonna covers years before daydream nation, they were fully invested in that west-coast pop maudit shtick, karen carpenter, charles manson & the age of aquarius (death valley 69 then expressway...)

so not really 'a form destroying rock band', maybe their very earliest hollowed out no-wave could be described thusly but by the time of evol they were deploying forms in parodic fashion, using strange tunings and so forth but still quite recognisably rock music

daydream nation is a lot more ambitious than either of its predecessors, the weight of a 70s concept rock lp in the service of entropy and dislocation, distended guitar workouts, concrete interludes, thrashy expulsions, the thrill of going nowhere

which summons that tired old question about antonioni 'how do you make a film about ennui without being boring?'......i suppose you don't worry about the ones you lose along the way

This has to be one of the oddest reviews ever: http://www.allmusic.com/album/watashi-dake-mw0001127080

I'm listened to the album a second time now. The first track is mostly vocal with a little feedback. Everything else is clearly noisy electric guitar and voice. I'm not sure there's any piano on this at all. I'm listening to a downloaded copy but the track lengths match up + I checked a clip on Youtube. It doesn't seem like the reviewer was even listening to the same album.