RESULTS (of the very nebulously defined) 110 ELECTRONIC DANCE TRACKS of the 00s

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xxpost lol, pretend I didn't just put quote marks around that

Eric H., Wednesday, 29 August 2012 03:57 (thirteen years ago)

http://i.imgur.com/GOO1R.jpg
12. The Knife - Heartbeats (Rex the Dog remix) (431 points, 14 votes, 1 first place vote)
Year: 2009
Youtube: http://youtu.be/bn7_4jNSD7U

the genius of "Heartbeats" is that it is euphoric and melancholic simultaneously, it makes the resulting awkwardness sound like the most amazing emotion. the Rex remix is all about the euphoria though.
― The Lex (The Lex), Sunday, February 20, 2005

he original is a lovely synth pop thing, but there's a remix by Rex the Dog that's even better and makes me wish I still went clubbing as often as I used to. It's bloody fantastic, I'm sharing the love.
― Anna (Anna), Friday, August 6, 2004

so the rex remix is nice, no doubt, but it sounds a little afraid to be anything other than 'heartbeats' pt.2. it's got the same super-clipped vocal manipulation tension building that 'heartbeats' did (the only kind rex can do?), but the chorus is appropriately hand-in-the-air, so i'm happy enough. even if the sorta eastern-european sounding melody makes the whole thing feel a bit like a latvian trance record...
― jermaine (jnoble), Saturday, May 13, 2006

don't really see how anything could be better than that rex the dog mix. that minute and fifteen seconds between choruses is excruciatingly anticipalicious.
― m. (mitchlnw), Monday, August 23, 2004

Okay, having just heard this Rex the Dog mix, it is officially the Best Thing Ever. It's like the post-electroclash "Take Me With You".
I think generally though Rex the Dog has a slightly more camp feel than Ewan Pearson. This is not a bad thing.
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, August 28, 2004

Moka, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 04:02 (thirteen years ago)

I think I accidentaly linked to an edited version of the remix so here it goes in longer format:

http://youtu.be/1MtjgVQemcM

Moka, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 04:03 (thirteen years ago)

How did I forget to vote for "In White Rooms"/Booka Shade? I don't know the '09/'10 stuff that's turning up in the top 20 overly well, or hadn't realised how canonised things like "Hyph Mngo"/"OAR003 B" had become.

Pleased but surprised "Casual Friday" placed as highly as it did; above where I'd put it in my ballot due to the presumed disapproving glare of V4hid re: already having three other DFA-related tracks ranked highly.

etc, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 04:05 (thirteen years ago)

http://i.imgur.com/q1Zdi.jpg
11. Burial - Archangel (438 points, 14 votes, 1 first place vote)
Year: 2007
Youtube: http://youtu.be/IlEkvbRmfrA

Archangel is the only Burial record I ever want to listen to these days, maybe the only one I really wanted to hear at the time, probably the only one you really need, and yet I still go back to it time and time again.
It's got exactly the right euphoric-melancholic balance you want in the best dance music as well, I remember Ripperton playing it in the middle of a set of ultra-dry minimal and it was like he'd suddenly sprayed the place with water. Amazing record.
― Vulvuzela (Matt DC), Tuesday, July 6, 2010

Matt DC kind of OTM about "Archangel", although I like "Unite" too. Saying it's the only track one needs by Burial is doing an injustice to the man's oeuvre (which is genius as a whole), but yeah, it's a transcendent track which sits next to "Hyph Mngo", retaining a kind of cool euphoria that only usually translates through house and trance music. The rest of his stuff is great, but it's the ardkore continuum version of something like Sunn O))), where it works better as aural texture to soundtrack your day-to-day life rather than something hooky you can play at a party. "Archangel" is both.

― village idiot (dog latin), Tuesday, July 6, 2010

archangel is the archetypal burial song. everything else is just a clone or a prototype for it...
...i love the way it doesn't sound like anything else out there but his own works so when you campare the rest of the album or other tunes of his to it, they're found wanting
― pollywog, Monday, December 17, 2007

Moka, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 04:11 (thirteen years ago)

This run is killin' it.

Legendary General Cypher Raige (Gukbe), Wednesday, 29 August 2012 04:13 (thirteen years ago)

Top 10 will have to wait because I'm hungry! Maybe tomorrow. Who knows?

You want me to post it right now? Or do you prefer to wait?

Moka, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 04:14 (thirteen years ago)

Now, before everyone posts it for you.

Eric H., Wednesday, 29 August 2012 04:16 (thirteen years ago)

I seriously doubt anyone in here will get it 100% right. There's a couple of dark horses in there. Or at least there's two in there that I would never had guessed they were ILM canon.

Moka, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 04:21 (thirteen years ago)

i can't believe "casual friday" was that high. haven't thought about that track in years. if watussi's "if all we had was love" doesn't make the top ten, i wonder what black hole it got sucked into. i know "happy house" is coming. the version at the double door in chicago...

zingzing, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 04:35 (thirteen years ago)

http://i.imgur.com/5H0wm.jpg
10. Daft Punk - One More Time (469 points, 15 votes, 2 first place votes)
Year: 2001
Youtube: http://youtu.be/FGBhQbmPwH8

One of the best singles of the last ten years, instant classic/constant 'grower' etc etc. I LIKE the 'overly' long break in the middle - delayed gratification pushed to its limits, and when the beat does comes in ..."celebrate and dance so free". The lyrics are wonderful too, so simple, so perfect - how else could it be said?
― Andrew L, Monday, May 7, 2001

My first real exposure to it was through the album, and initially it felt like a dud single tacked on at the start. Before long I found out I was wrong! 'Discovery' has shaken up my musical world this year, and now "One More Time" makes just perfect sense as a single or an opener to the album. The beats on this track are great - at first listen very simple, but after repeated exposure they push on and break down at exactly the right moments.
― Dr. C, Tuesday, May 8, 2001

Despite being Daft Punk's first release in about five years, (in my opinion a band who have done for same dance music in the 90's that the Smiths did for indie in the 80s) surrepticiously released without promo or publicity, they don't make a fuss. It's hardly representative of the Album, more of a interface between Discovery and Homework. It's for the dance floor, and that's where it's best judged. That it stands up as a track on it's own is a testament to their versatility, but it is also exists to be mixed, between between similar tracks, part of something else. I think their triumphancy carries us through the break, but like so much of the Roule output it's also there to be used by DJ's- (eg Alan Brake's Vertigo). The lyrics compliment the beat, it's brute hedonism. But as far as the vocal inflections go, it's down to taste, but as Stardust said pretty plainly
"The music sounds better with you"
― K-reg, Tuesday, May 8, 2001

"One More Time" and "Face To Face" are the only two songs released so far this year that can bring tears to my eyes - "One More Time" in particular is to me much heavier with meaning than I think a lot of people give it credit for. Still, it surprises me that no-one has yet mentioned the absolute best moment of the song - those bars just before breakdown where the phasing goes briefly, gloriously psychedelic.
― Tim, Wednesday, May 9, 2001

This is one of the best records ever made, I think. It came up on the other thread as a song that's emotionally effective but you can't tell why - but I can tell why, it's sad and yearning and defiant and uplifting all at once, that slight strain in his voice like a battery that's running down, a party that's almost over, it's the perfect end of night song for that reason. Every time I hear it its a reminder that I'm getting older, that pleasure is finite but that's all the more reason to seize on it. It's a wonderful record.
― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, January 23, 2004

Moka, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 04:36 (thirteen years ago)

Interesting to see this thread were I lifted the quotes from:

Taking Sides: Daft Punk's 'One More Time'

Those were the positive ones but more than half of the posters are dissing on Discovery and this song. I still remember Discovery was looked down on by most music critics when it came out. Most of them ended up having a change of heart in the following years.

Moka, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 04:38 (thirteen years ago)

This was another early anti-Discovery thread:

Daft Punk - Ha!

Tim F, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 04:45 (thirteen years ago)

I expected it to be higher, but I'm glad it's only at number 10 because there's some stupid part of me that never wants the obvious, canon songs to top polls, even if it totally deserves to.

Legendary General Cypher Raige (Gukbe), Wednesday, 29 August 2012 04:46 (thirteen years ago)

http://i.imgur.com/2FK3i.jpg
9. Friendly Fires - Paris (Aeroplane remix feat. Au Revoir Simone) (483 points, 19 votes, 1 first place vote)
Year: 2008
Youtube: http://youtu.be/3_oUogAKF8I

I love it when things you learn on a thread make you go back and listen to a record in a completely different way. Like, I hadn't even noticed the Kompakt influence but it's really there. I'm not used to 00s indie dance records sounding this expansive. When you listen to the Rapture or Hot Chip the sound is always endearingly ramshackle, and there's a sense of a "hey this is cool noise" approach to electronics.
Where Friendly Fires differ is there's a sense that they really appreciate why certain sounds in techno work the way they do - I'm thinking of the second half of Lovesick in particular, and the whole of Ex Lover. Also those huge pads on Jump In The Pool and Paris sound like they're consciously trying to recreate the "ahhhhhhhhhhh" feeling you get when you hear the lusher Kompakt stuff played on a huge sound system at 5am, except tethered to this tight punk-funk song structure with clattering drums and cowbells and whistles.
― Matt DC, Friday, 5 December 2008

Considering ILM had no thread about Friendly Fires at all until I started one in December, that is placing astonishingly high. It's probably artificially high seeing as they're conflated votes for two completely different records, the Aeroplane/Au Revoir Simone version is a cover really.
That said, I love both versions unreservedly. The original is what I've wanted mainstream indie to be like for most of the 00s, the swell in the chorus really fits with the total unabashed excitement in the lyrics. "One day we're gonna live in Paris... you'll find me that French boy I'll find you that French girl... and every night we'll watch the stars coming out for us" and then there's that huge Kompakt rush in the chorus - it totally fits with that feeling of "yes I'm going to do something fucking exciting!"
And the Aeroplane remix is just the best fake Saint Etienne song ever, and it has that big Balearic payoff in the second half.
― Holy Suffering Gobi Desert Clit Nun (Matt DC), Friday, February 6, 2009

ronan, have you heard the friendly fires remix? surely it's like the best end-of-night close your eyes and smile tune ever. i got the dj in the place i work to play it on friday night when the place was empty and i swear i was getting rushes while cleaning down the bar! anyways going to see them in liverpool next month and i'm soooo excited.
― or something, Sunday, January 25, 2009

I would love to hear a remix of the friendly fires remix that was about 45 minutes long.
― Plaxico (I know, right?), Sunday, January 25, 2009

Moka, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 04:47 (thirteen years ago)

Sorry to dissapoint Gukbe but the top 3 is pretty canon and predictable maybe. In a good way of course.

Moka, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 04:48 (thirteen years ago)

I doubt I'll be disappointed. If my number one is up there I'll be thrilled. Daft Punk/"One More Time" is such a crossover though, and if I were to make a playlist of the best tracks from this countdown I think it would interrupt the flow.

Legendary General Cypher Raige (Gukbe), Wednesday, 29 August 2012 04:50 (thirteen years ago)

Work for the single "Hey Coach" and more tracks for the full length album will continue this March!!!
― jed_, Monday, February 27, 2012
― Moka, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 13:52 (48 minutes ago) Bookmark

there's yr classic ilm

i know "happy house" is coming. the version at the double door in chicago...
― zingzing, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 14:35 (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

yes, this should be the video imo, official one is only for an edit anyway

itt: i forgot that he yells at a butt (sic), Wednesday, 29 August 2012 04:50 (thirteen years ago)

glad One More Time didn't top it

itt: i forgot that he yells at a butt (sic), Wednesday, 29 August 2012 04:51 (thirteen years ago)

too

itt: i forgot that he yells at a butt (sic), Wednesday, 29 August 2012 04:52 (thirteen years ago)

Happy to see Paris, but that track is really locked into a specific time for me. Real ILM love-in for Aeroplane for a while there.

Legendary General Cypher Raige (Gukbe), Wednesday, 29 August 2012 04:53 (thirteen years ago)

http://i.imgur.com/KLjTl.jpg
8. Âme - Rej (505 points, 17 votes, 1 first place vote)
Year: 2007
Youtube: http://youtu.be/JgBLAA7eCC0

the high end of "rej" is like a pointillist painting of a cloudless, starry night sky
‎― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Thursday, July 1, 2010

Ah Rej - a real creeper of a track. Kind of infamous for being a "nothing" tune, until you hear it in a darkened room at Plastic People at full volume.
― village idiot (dog latin), Thursday, July 1, 2010

ow do people know what the name of a track is? I mean, you go out with your on-the-pulse mate and you hear a load of excellent tunes and want to know what they are... How do you find out?

"Hey this is wicked, what's this one called?"
"Oh it's called 'Rej' by Ame"
"Huh?"
"Ame - 'Rej'"
"Armrage?"
"NO! Ame - 'Rej'"
"What about this one? This is ace!"
"This is 'Fizheuer Ziheuer' by Ricardo Villalobos"
"Fizzo Zeeo? Retardo Eat A Horse?"...

Of course you could ask when you get home, but trying to hum the tune to 'Doppelwhipper' when your on a comedown is no mean feat...
― the next grozart, Thursday, March 15, 2007

Definitely not a electro house track ... but the track of the moment (of the year?) for me is ...."Rej" by Âme.
I wouldn't expect Sonar Kollektiv releasing such an amazing track. Intense, deep, classic stuff!!
― ifeelspace, Thursday, November 3, 2005

Moka, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 04:55 (thirteen years ago)

even though i know everybody loves 'paris' there's still something about it that makes it feel like it's ~my song~ in the way i could with some forgotten track by some obscure 70s singer songwriter or something like that, so having aeroplane drop it in his dj set a couple of nights ago and having the room explode and a hundred people sing along was pretty crazy and beautiful.

tubular, mondo, gnabry (Merdeyeux), Wednesday, 29 August 2012 05:00 (thirteen years ago)

http://i.imgur.com/accJY.jpg
7. Delia Gonzalez & David Russom - Relevee (Carl Craig remix) (516 points, 15 votes)
Year: 2006
Youtube: http://youtu.be/Ai1sfPKq2gk

Both times I heard Carl Craig's remix of Relevee out were amazing dancefloor moments for me. The song I enjoyed playing out was Ada's Each and Everyone. We should have our own 00's dance tracks poll.
― Jacob Sanders, Thursday, February 18, 2010

carl craig relevee is pretty holy shit the first time you play it for anyone
― ❉❉❉❉❉❉❉❉Plaxico❉❉❉❉❉❉❉❉❉ (I know, right?), Wednesday, July 1, 2009

one of my favourite albums of the decade. would love to have heard a remixed version of the whole thing, the carl craig version of 'relevee' doesnt get old at all
― vain_bowers, Saturday, August 15, 2009

Moka, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 05:03 (thirteen years ago)

^ this is one of the two dark horses in the top 10 (at least for me). Love this remix but had no idea it was that important over here.

Moka, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 05:04 (thirteen years ago)

http://i.imgur.com/4OsxK.jpg
6. Mark E - R&B Drunkie (518 points, 16 votes)
Year: 2009
Youtube: http://youtu.be/5zPC5Vz2jAY

So this is a thread for people who wish they were Theo but aren't nearly as good? Exciting. R&B Drunkie is my jam tho, I also had to pick up the JJ 12" to mix in with it.
― pipecock, Friday, May 1, 2009

i like both, i keep the Janet 12" next to R&B Drunkie in the box. i have been playing the Janet much more often recently.
― dan138zig (Durrr Durrr Durrrrrr)

I could still dance to "Rnb Drunkie" for hours if I had the chance to.
― ha ha ha ha jack my swag (boxedjoy), Friday, September 9, 2011

Moka, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 05:13 (thirteen years ago)

... and that was the other one.

Moka, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 05:14 (thirteen years ago)

See? You wouldn't have guessed these two made it to the top 10? or would you?

Moka, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 05:14 (thirteen years ago)

David Russom ?!

Neither of these seem at all like dark horses to me! OTOH I have no idea if I've ever heard "Paris" (but Aeroplane mostly passed me by).

toby, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 05:16 (thirteen years ago)

x-post I would have thought at least Relevee was a lock for top 10 (although I only had it as number 18) and the Mark E thread here is pretty popular.

toby, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 05:18 (thirteen years ago)

I imagine my numbers 1/2 are still to come in the top 5. Haven't paid quite enough attention to what else is left to have a clue about the other 3, though.

toby, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 05:19 (thirteen years ago)

i was getting real shitty until those showed up

the late great, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 05:23 (thirteen years ago)

http://i.imgur.com/svzVs.jpg
5. Metro Area - Miura (574 points, 19 votes, 2 first place votes)
Year: 2001
Youtube: http://youtu.be/jT9IPPuNDyg

Disco stripped back to its funk roots. The way its builds (in an almost too polite way) and only offers the smallest of peaks - At around the 4th and 5th minute is where it happens with 5 seconds of Philly style strings, and then Miura just getting back to its business. This trick makes me just play it on loop.
― Tannenbaum Schmidt, Sunday, November 15, 2009

Moka, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 05:34 (thirteen years ago)

http://i.imgur.com/jw3Wd.jpg
4. The Juan Maclean - Happy House (588 points, 16 votes, 3 first place votes)
Year: 2008
Youtube: http://youtu.be/NfJYtbGPgQs (full 12 min version)

so excellent
― The Reverend, Sunday, February 3, 2008

Juan always left me colder than a witch's tit (except for GMELT and his live show, which was good enough to stand out as exemplary in my mind despite being the last act I saw before Daft Punk at Coachella), but this is just something else. I'm %10000 fine with zero update factor in light of Nancy's performance and All That Piano.
― jamescobo, Saturday, February 2, 2008

This track is indeed, excellent, so excellent. In fact, I'm now listening to it, sped up by 24%, with old rave tracks on top of it, to hear what it would sounds like as an actually happy house song. The question now is why?
― mehlt, Monday, February 4, 2008

song rocks most because of the wang
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, May 14, 2008

Having listened to the BiS rip of this about a million times, the last 3 mins of the full version are a nice suprise.
― jng, Friday, March 7, 2008

Moka, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 05:42 (thirteen years ago)

Rocket.gif

Legendary General Cypher Raige (Gukbe), Wednesday, 29 August 2012 05:43 (thirteen years ago)

http://i.imgur.com/azzcE.jpg
3. Jürgen Paape - So Weit Wie Noch Nie (644 points, 18 votes)
Year: 2002
Youtube: http://youtu.be/LQWuNTlY6_M

Ger: Wir hören ein Singen im Raum,
Eng: We hear singing in the room,
Ger: Wir jagen die Monotonie,
Eng: We hunt/chase the monotony,

Ger: Wir machen aus Stunden ein Jahr,
Eng: We make out of hours a year,

Ger: Und Mondschein aus unserem Haar,
Eng: And moonlight out of our hair,

Ger: Wir fliegen so weit wie noch nie.
Eng: We fly farther than ever before.

― nader (nader), Tuesday, November 16, 2004

Moka, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 05:47 (thirteen years ago)

I totally missed this track. I don't think I've ever heard it.

Legendary General Cypher Raige (Gukbe), Wednesday, 29 August 2012 05:55 (thirteen years ago)

http://i.imgur.com/XzVHb.jpg
2. Luomo - Tessio (729 points, 23 votes, 3 first place votes)
Year: 2000
Youtube: http://youtu.be/DeQchIQOL6I

I should point out, despite finding it depressing, I think it's one of the best singles I've heard this year and lyrically astounding in the context of the actual music.
― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, November 11, 2003

I have already told mrs Adam I want this song played at my funeral! Just because! I listen to it almost every day!
― a real live British pub hooligan (nordicskilla), Sunday, June 26, 2005

Tessio remains my fave, being the my introduction to him. I hadn't heard House beautiful as this since Blaze's "Basic Blaze" album. For a guy that spends too much time in a suit, this stuff is life-affirming.
― Nik (Nik), Friday, March 14, 2003

That's funny Jed because when I listen to the album the re-recording of "Tessio" sounds quite out-of-place with the rest of it, missing the sense of harmonious unity which very strongly characterises the best tracks - "The Present Lover" (although again it's v. slightly inferior compared to the version on Digital Disco), "Could Be Like This", "What Good", "Shelter". If I were basing an assessment of the two albums on comparing the two versions of "Tessio" I would have to agree with you; as it is I love them pretty much equally.
You're right though that length is sort of the point: trying to reach for a sort of becalmed tantric intensity. And certainly on both albums the nuances of the groove shift so much over the course of a track that an evaluation of whether they "do much" is entirely based on the zoom of your aural lens - from outerspace earth looks pretty non-eventful too...
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Wednesday, November 12, 2003

Moka, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 05:56 (thirteen years ago)

Yay for #3! "So Weit Wie Noch Nie" is the epitome of sweet, sad house music! Also, the genius sample should shut up anyone who thinks German is an ugly language. The way the the end of the second vocal line reverbs – "Wir jagen die Monotonie - tonie - tonie - tonie..." – is nothing short of sublime.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 05:57 (thirteen years ago)

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/154/912/berneydidnotread.gif

the late great, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 06:03 (thirteen years ago)

And here it is, ILM's most loved 'electronic dance' track of the past 12 years:

Moka, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 06:03 (thirteen years ago)

http://i.imgur.com/l95Ez.jpg
1. Lindstrom - I Feel Space (775 points, 27 votes, 2 first place votes)
Year: 2005
Youtube: http://youtu.be/i7_edU9T2Ho

Moka, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 06:03 (thirteen years ago)

http://thatsglitchy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/sad-ohioans.jpg

the late great, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 06:04 (thirteen years ago)

Good work! My number 1. You can blame me. It gets me every time.

Legendary General Cypher Raige (Gukbe), Wednesday, 29 August 2012 06:05 (thirteen years ago)

well...ok

andrew m., Wednesday, 29 August 2012 06:06 (thirteen years ago)

I had fun doing this. Hope you enjoyed it and found something worthwhile in here. Also sorry if I chose weird hours to publish the winners, I've been having a busy month. Here's the full list of results:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0ArHM5vPIjnrqdHFRUmQzdGtSOVBtcml1Y1RhZGFSVmc&output=html

Moka, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 06:07 (thirteen years ago)

If Tessio had won the poll we would have had Luomo at both ends. Think about it.

Moka, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 06:08 (thirteen years ago)

i like both, i keep the Janet 12" next to R&B Drunkie in the box. i have been playing the Janet much more often recently.
― dan138zig (Durrr Durrr Durrrrrr)

haha that's soo not my quote.

anticlimactic #1 in my eyes but can't argue with that.

dan138zig (Durrr Durrr Durrrrrr), Wednesday, 29 August 2012 06:11 (thirteen years ago)

The three versions of "Blind" had ~688 points if added together, which would have secured it #3; the two versions of "Flowers" had ~375, bumping it up to #17.

Wouldn't have guessed most of this top 10; can't complain and I've already discovered some pretty big blind spots. Thanks so much, Moka/TLG!

etc, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 06:19 (thirteen years ago)

For a while Jurgen Paape had the top spot. I think most of the voters got confident about it placing at the top and it got affected by it. Noone gave it a 1st place vote and from what I recall half of the ballots that had the song gave it less than 20 points.

I'll do heresy against these results but I've never really understood the appeal of 'I Feel Space'. I don't see it working on a dancefloor (or at least it failed miserably that one time I heard it on a club) and it's not layered enough to be 'trip' music. I love Lindstrom and I think the track is ok but I would never rate it top 10 of the 00s.

Moka, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 06:19 (thirteen years ago)


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