Is SPIN really circling the drain?

The ones who perpetuate the problem are major corporations like BUZZMEDIA OMG

it just feels ironic to me that a critic responded to an impersonal song that makes large blanket statements about what people should and should not say by making an impersonal large blanket statement about what people should and should not say. How can you end a review with "the discussion doesn't need a backpack rap hustler selling cynicism" and not realize you yourself are selling cynicism? If he just admitted he doesn't get anything out of a particular moralistic rap, rather than trying to say this kind of moralism is The Real Enemy, people might feel less of a need to call him out.

yet largely influenced by White male label executives, fans

this premise also sounded pretty outdated to me. obviously i don't have numbers but there's a number of important black executives at rap/r&b labels now and as rap falling off the pop charts (at least compared to 10 years ago) has coincided with a concentration around the core of the fanbase.

most rap critics (predominant ones especially) are white males but people always ascribe too much power/importance to critics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Re6pZri8Gw

also it ignores whether or not the song is enjoyable to listen to as music (it isn't)

― young money color me badd (J0rdan S.), Monday, August 27, 2012 1:22 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

to be fair the entire began with someone saying "put aside the music entirely, let's just critique the message of the song"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kRIV23LQyI
this bitch bad

the piece also operates with the base position that all gangster rap is harmful/poisonous.

not sure this is true? seems to operate with the base position that harmful/poisonous crap is harmful/poisonous. that most of her examples in talking about this in a hip hop context come from gangster rap isn't at all surprising.

xp (just hoping we can work santeria into the discussion somehow)

true -- i mean in general i think when discussions like this blow up on a larger scale, the conversation gradually loses whatever root it has in music, and there's a whole lot of elements there that affect how people feel about these songs. "bitch bad" is not an essay.

that's an xp to ship

not sure this is true? seems to operate with the base position that harmful/poisonous crap is harmful/poisonous. that most of her examples in talking about this in a hip hop context come from gangster rap isn't at all surprising.

― i know your nuts hurt! who's laughing? (contenderizer), Monday, August 27, 2012 1:31 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

there's a pretty clear binary set up

fair enough, but "all gangster rap is harmful/poisonous" seemed like an awfully sweeping characterization. i think she does set up a binary and seems to think that gangster rap is responsible for a lot of harmful/poisonous bullshit ("alas, '93 was the same year that Snoop’s Doggystyle was released and rap was becoming an increasingly hostile space for women."), but it's hard not to agree.

okay, i finally listened to the song and no one needs to comment on this like ever

aw damn, forks just shut it down

it's hard not to agree.

― i know your nuts hurt! who's laughing? (contenderizer), Monday, August 27, 2012 1:40 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

this is why i never get in arguments w/ you

sorry jordan, it's what i do

http://www.ebony.com/entertainment-culture/in-defense-of-lupe-fiascos-btch-badand-inspiration

prolly relevant here

andrew ‏@noz
the music crit hipster hegemony will only crack when specialist institutions get their shit together.

andrew ‏@noz
pitchfork consistently publishes better and more thoughtful music writing online than xxl does. that's a problem for hip hop.

points to solomon for talking about why the song affects her personally, rather than entering the "you don't understand rap/race/gender politics in 2012, I do" game notrivia started

egghead critic
egghead critic

also helps that Solomon's piece is shorter.

points to solomon for talking about why the song affects her personally, rather than entering the "you don't understand rap/race/gender politics in 2012, I do" game notrivia started

― da croupier, Monday, August 27, 2012 1:48 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

yes. dying @ "egghead critic" tho

ha, i liked that because i could tell she was holding back

any discussion that gets people talking about how you degrading and horrible it is for me to call women "females" is a net positive imo so I give props to Lupe & Spin

trying to imagine Marilyn Hagerty reviewing "B*tch Bad":

The use of "bitch" is crunchy and unexpected. The beats have force. The song makes its points and ends quickly. Lupe is angry and has something to say. Rosie, the promo person who sent me the single, was pleasant and signed off her email with an emoticon.

lol for men, not "me"

aero are you really griving props to spin for doing the thing you find degrading and horrible

haha the way that post came off was hilarious. "i love being called out on what a prick i am!" (xpost)

aero are you really griving props to spin for doing the thing you find degrading and horrible

no it was like giving props to somebody for farting in an elevator because it got a discussion going about how bad it smells in the elevator

props to krugman and newsweek for pointing out how horrible guys like Niall Ferguson are

man I really like that Jamilah Lemieux piece

lol for men, not "me"

big lol here

I was all "when did you join Opus Dei"

I was all "when did you join Opus Dei"

I couldn't help it, their name reminded me of Laibach and next thing I knew I had abandoned my principles

The main lesson I've taken away from all of this is...

Spin bad. Twitter good. Blogger better.

yeah that ebony thing made my day. i was having a crappy day and then i was smiling after that.

x-post

can we focus on whats important here

http://www.spin.com/articles/kanye-west-cruel-summer-good-music-leak-bingo

massive lols

did you guys do the graphic design on that yourselves? nice work if so

wait the terrible song from the 80's sampled better not be a reference to "cruel summer" or i am boycotting spin for real.

if, in theory, i ever saw a copy of spin for sale anywhere.

i would get on my twitter feed though. when i start one.

i gotta get on the twitter.

yup, aero, all us!

I got clowned so hard for liking bananarama in high school. well who's laughing now you dicks. me. I am laughing. at something totally unrelated, yes, but my point stands

my favorite joke on there is the one about teyana taylor

haha same here

there, i feel better already.

https://twitter.com/skotrok

My main problems with the (first) Ebony thing are:

1) The writer takes for granted that BS loves ignorant gangster rap because he is white, writes for Spin and criticizes Lupe, when in fact BS is one of very few white rap critics writing for mainly rockist publications (Spin, P4k, VV, Stereogum, etc.) who nearly always tries to combine an aesthetic critique with an ethical one. Not saying that he always gets it right, but, hey, it's what he does. He also hates Rick Ross with a passion - but is called out for finding him exciting while not liking Lupe. The comment that "The imagery in rap music is even more damning than early 20th century minstrelsy because there are so many folks inside and outside of the Black community who will fight tooth and nail to suggest that the buffoonery is not only authentic Blackness, but the most authentic form of Blackness" gracelessly misses BS's perspective. BS has never to my knowledge suggested that buffoonery is "the most authentic form of blackness".

2) The writer takes for granted that because BS is white and writes for a mainly rockist publication, he can't possibly bring something of value into the discussion - a stance that reduces what every white rap critic - and yeah, that goes for quite a few of the people in this thread, myself included - writes to misguided aesthetics. The white writer is merely an observer, incapable of feeling, and unable to connect emotionally to the music he hears. Distance, then, brings about estrangement rather than perspective. This is particularly bad since, as Noz points out, mainstream rap media don't really publish substantial criticism of new rap music. There is also the general point that criticism as such in some ways hinges on a certain distance - distance enables criticism. The critic is always in some way an outsider. This is why BS's "lady"/"female" misstep is not merely a howler - it points to a different cultural perspective from which Lupe's simple hierarchy isn't necessarily the right answer to the question he poses but rather the source from which that question arises (deconstruction, folks!). Hogan and Soderberg both dismiss Lupe's song's ability to provide a good enough answer to the question it raises and which is obviously its raison d'être - that's the context wherein they find it relatively worthless. As do I.

3) The point that "Contradictions and complications are not new territory for rap music, be from a “sanctimonious” emcee or a blissfully ignorant one, so the anger at “B*tch Bad” really seems unwarranted" is really half baked. Anger at Bitch Bad may well be warranted even though contradictions and complications are not new territory for rap music.

4) The writer takes for granted that "popping her butt" to Nicki Minaj will get the "12-year-old girl" in trouble, and that gangsta rap can *only* be bad because of its negative impact on young black kids. She also claims that BS "says little about the scenes featuring small children watching rap videos and emulating them (I don’t think this dude is particularly concerned about what little Black girls are witnessing that may be to their detriment, sorry)" - but really, there's no evidence in the SPIN piece to back that statement up. BS says "little" about it, but he does mention that the girls in the video are unsupervised and notes that this is the main difference from the previous scene wherein the mother is the hero. The problem to me is that Lemieux takes for granted that if you somewhat agree that unsupervised kids watching Nicki pop her butt is bad, you must also commend Lupe for making a song wherein this scene takes place.

So no. Outside of the impressive energy she put into scolding her opponent, her piece did little for me.

Eh. I'll stop there.

Sorry. I wrote while y'all lolled.

i prefer the red card
also kudos for "I'm rushin to start a pussy riot HANH"