Is SPIN really circling the drain?

idg why the ebony article tries to tie the "female" issue to race and culture.

"it's basically talking about women like they're animals."

yeah this. pretty common.

idg why the ebony article tries to tie the "female" issue to race and culture.

Because in my experience white guys don't call women "females" in that way?

something i realized a long time ago is that if you're white and you listen to hip hop, there's pretty much no type of hip hop you can listen to that doesn't open you up to an obvious "of course you like THAT kind of hip hop, because you're white and..." potshot. gangsta rap, conscious rap, white rappers, there's a killer zing for all of 'em. and you only invite those if you argue for one type of rap over the other, especially if you do so articulately and/or as a professional critic. sometimes it's a conversation worth having, but it's also pretty frequently exhausting and fruitless.

white racists will often refer to black women as female in the animal/breeder sense. have since the good old slave days.

also while i love the 8-ball and mjg tapes thing, i think this part was a little sensitive for a Chief Keef cheap shot.

Because in my experience white guys don't call women "females" in that way?

Someone hasn't been watching recent seasons of The Real World

(NOTE: I do not recommend watching recent seasons of The Real World)

Because in my experience white guys don't call women "females" in that way?

hmm, ok. not the case in my experience at all. I think it's pretty heavily ingrained in police and military culture. the people I've heard say it that way are pretty uh... I guess "rural" would be the polite way to put it.

Because in my experience white guys don't call women "females" in that way?

Oh dude hang out around frat dudes, cops, stock brokers, etc and you'll hear it plenty.

also while i love the 8-ball and mjg tapes thing, i think this part was a little sensitive for a Chief Keef cheap shot.

you realize this reads like you saying, yeah the older heads are tools of the man but why she gotta be angry at ME
― The muted sensation feels amazeballs. (forksclovetofu), Monday, August 27, 2012 12:03 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

no i didn't, probably because in my mind the stereotype of a white guy w/ pretensions to being a real head is still centered around fetishism of 90s gangster rap more than anything else. and ME ftr well i love both

okeydoke

the spin guy should just hang out with more thinkpiece-writing raconteurs who spend their days on hip-hop panels. maybe he'll learn something.

and yeah fair enough wrt the female thing, it honestly isn't something i hear but i can see it taking on a demeaning tone.

as for "lady," some dude's Jerry Lewis joke aside, it really does carry a slight antifeminist connotation for me, almost like 'sweetheart'--like trying to flatter a woman in a way that is actually condescending. but that's obviously the kind of cultural discrepancy the article is pointing out, and i do think it's an amazing piece altogether

the piece also operates with the base position that all gangster rap is harmful/poisonous. based off brandon's writing, he doesn't presume the same about backpack/conscious rap even tho he doesn't like lupe. it also (like lupe's song) ignores every other factor that influences how kids act/think. there's a presumption in the piece (as far criticism of music goes) that if you eradicated waka flocka and 2 chainz and boosie and elevated lupe, the world would be a much better place for kids, and i don't think that's true at all.

skateboards everywhere

there's also just so many false binaries going on, because, like 8Ball is basically a conscious rapper if you actually listen to his albums, and Lupe always makes a big deal of having listened to Ball & G more than A Tribe Called Quest growing up.

also it ignores whether or not the song is enjoyable to listen to as music (it isn't)

artisanal beer is not really a 'thing,' shouldve gone w/ microbrews

― max, Monday, August 27, 2012 12:57 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

guys its called 'craft beer'

the piece also operates with the base position that all gangster rap is harmful/poisonous. based off brandon's writing, he doesn't presume the same about backpack/conscious rap even tho he doesn't like lupe. it also (like lupe's song) ignores every other factor that influences how kids act/think. there's a presumption in the piece (as far criticism of music goes) that if you eradicated waka flocka and 2 chainz and boosie and elevated lupe, the world would be a much better place for kids, and i don't think that's true at all.

This guy from the Spin comments section is trying to think that line of argument to the bloody end:

What people and this generation of listeners who are so riled up at Brandon for is pointless. He is opinionated and obviously isn't a fan of what Lupe Fiasco was trying to say, but so what, he's a small fry compared to the larger problem. The wasted energy of boycotting Spin magazine does not help the focus of the argument or motive of this all. Lupe and other like minded people should be attacking the people who use the word and make it more a problem in the world today. Let's start with all of YMCMB, MMG, Azalea Banks, Cam'ron, Nick Minaj, French Montana, Lil B, Mike Posner, Drake, Odd Future, Riff Raff The Weeknd, Trey Songz, Kreayshawn, B.o.B, Iggy Azalea, the list goes on, WSHH, then go after radio personalities, and media mainstream that force the use of the word upon us and make it normal. Sending hate comments to Brandon is so trivial, go on to the twitter of those people who degrade women and boycott them and there music and what they do. Lupe you should too, I mean , he is on the same bill (lineup) of performers who apparently use the word in it's worst ways. If You Lupe can't stand up against the actual people who are creating the problem, your just a false prophet. True leaders make sacrifices even if they lose popularity, music friends, or whatever in the industry, but it will create a true voice of others to rally behind till that change is made. If you aren't after a major change then stop all together. Go after the real problem. The ones who perpetuate the problem.

http://www.retro-housewife.com/images/holiday/christmas/2006/peace-love-gap.jpg

The ones who perpetuate the problem are major corporations like BUZZMEDIA OMG

it just feels ironic to me that a critic responded to an impersonal song that makes large blanket statements about what people should and should not say by making an impersonal large blanket statement about what people should and should not say. How can you end a review with "the discussion doesn't need a backpack rap hustler selling cynicism" and not realize you yourself are selling cynicism? If he just admitted he doesn't get anything out of a particular moralistic rap, rather than trying to say this kind of moralism is The Real Enemy, people might feel less of a need to call him out.

yet largely influenced by White male label executives, fans

this premise also sounded pretty outdated to me. obviously i don't have numbers but there's a number of important black executives at rap/r&b labels now and as rap falling off the pop charts (at least compared to 10 years ago) has coincided with a concentration around the core of the fanbase.

most rap critics (predominant ones especially) are white males but people always ascribe too much power/importance to critics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Re6pZri8Gw

also it ignores whether or not the song is enjoyable to listen to as music (it isn't)

― young money color me badd (J0rdan S.), Monday, August 27, 2012 1:22 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

to be fair the entire began with someone saying "put aside the music entirely, let's just critique the message of the song"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kRIV23LQyI
this bitch bad

the piece also operates with the base position that all gangster rap is harmful/poisonous.

not sure this is true? seems to operate with the base position that harmful/poisonous crap is harmful/poisonous. that most of her examples in talking about this in a hip hop context come from gangster rap isn't at all surprising.

xp (just hoping we can work santeria into the discussion somehow)

true -- i mean in general i think when discussions like this blow up on a larger scale, the conversation gradually loses whatever root it has in music, and there's a whole lot of elements there that affect how people feel about these songs. "bitch bad" is not an essay.

that's an xp to ship

not sure this is true? seems to operate with the base position that harmful/poisonous crap is harmful/poisonous. that most of her examples in talking about this in a hip hop context come from gangster rap isn't at all surprising.

― i know your nuts hurt! who's laughing? (contenderizer), Monday, August 27, 2012 1:31 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

there's a pretty clear binary set up

fair enough, but "all gangster rap is harmful/poisonous" seemed like an awfully sweeping characterization. i think she does set up a binary and seems to think that gangster rap is responsible for a lot of harmful/poisonous bullshit ("alas, '93 was the same year that Snoop’s Doggystyle was released and rap was becoming an increasingly hostile space for women."), but it's hard not to agree.

okay, i finally listened to the song and no one needs to comment on this like ever

aw damn, forks just shut it down

it's hard not to agree.

― i know your nuts hurt! who's laughing? (contenderizer), Monday, August 27, 2012 1:40 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

this is why i never get in arguments w/ you

sorry jordan, it's what i do

http://www.ebony.com/entertainment-culture/in-defense-of-lupe-fiascos-btch-badand-inspiration

prolly relevant here

andrew ‏@noz
the music crit hipster hegemony will only crack when specialist institutions get their shit together.

andrew ‏@noz
pitchfork consistently publishes better and more thoughtful music writing online than xxl does. that's a problem for hip hop.

points to solomon for talking about why the song affects her personally, rather than entering the "you don't understand rap/race/gender politics in 2012, I do" game notrivia started

egghead critic
egghead critic

also helps that Solomon's piece is shorter.

points to solomon for talking about why the song affects her personally, rather than entering the "you don't understand rap/race/gender politics in 2012, I do" game notrivia started

― da croupier, Monday, August 27, 2012 1:48 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

yes. dying @ "egghead critic" tho

ha, i liked that because i could tell she was holding back

any discussion that gets people talking about how you degrading and horrible it is for me to call women "females" is a net positive imo so I give props to Lupe & Spin

trying to imagine Marilyn Hagerty reviewing "B*tch Bad":

The use of "bitch" is crunchy and unexpected. The beats have force. The song makes its points and ends quickly. Lupe is angry and has something to say. Rosie, the promo person who sent me the single, was pleasant and signed off her email with an emoticon.

lol for men, not "me"

aero are you really griving props to spin for doing the thing you find degrading and horrible

haha the way that post came off was hilarious. "i love being called out on what a prick i am!" (xpost)

aero are you really griving props to spin for doing the thing you find degrading and horrible

no it was like giving props to somebody for farting in an elevator because it got a discussion going about how bad it smells in the elevator

props to krugman and newsweek for pointing out how horrible guys like Niall Ferguson are