Is SPIN really circling the drain?

goddam i'm going to be calling out white ppl all fucking day on ILX feels good man

lmao @ m@tt

lolll

well played matt.
are we gonna have to start saying "the b word" now
*shakes fist angrily* SPIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNN!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKpqyZCH0BI

Brandon detests Rick Ross, lol. Some of that is definitely on point, but it also definitely crosses the line I mentioned above, pulling the outsider card in a way that's ultimately problematic.

i tend not to worry about how problematic something is when my first response to it is: oh thank you.

but that's just me! to me, its invigorating. i wanna read stuff like that every day.

piece is entertaining, fraught w/ its own problems tho

― young money color me badd (J0rdan S.), Monday, August 27, 2012 10:45 AM (46 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

idk i've read through this twice and even though it seems like it should be full of holes given how strongly worded it is i can't find any

My first response to Brandon's piece was "oh, thank you!"...

Speaking as an Actual Black Woman, not Race Non Specific Pretend Woman referenced in this article, I can tell you that the word “female” is a far greater point of contention than “lady” amongst sisters. And while plenty of women eschew the word “lady” or the expectation that one has to be “ladylike” to be respectable, others still cling tightly to the term and the traits. “Female,” however, is a term often hurled from the same lips that favor “b*tch.”

other people have sort of made this point itt, but i still don't think i get it. it didn't seem like brandon chose the word "female" very carefully (really like he was just picking the most prosaic thing possible other than "woman" because y'know that's actually in the song), but why is it 'hurled from the same lips that favor 'bitch''????

i don't know WHY it is but it is, don't know how you've never heard it before

Ironically, this same writer cried earlier this summer that the current dearth of “street rap” on mainstream radio is a bad thing. This is White privilege at its finest: being able to complain that there aren’t enough narratives about Black death and pain on the Pop stations, without being touched by said death and pain outside of one’s headphones or whatever corny hipster bar one goes to drink artisanal beer and nod awkwardly along to Chief Keef.

ok i actually do take issue with this part. why is it impossible that Brandon (or even the hipster stock character) is genuinely affected by the deaths of black people irl? because they're black and he's not?also while i love the 8-ball and mjg tapes thing, i think this part was a little sensitive for a Chief Keef cheap shot.

can't tell you either i guess xp

because female refers to sex, woman refers to gender, one is biological and refers to insects, llamas, xlr jacks, etc, and the other refers to human beings

other people have sort of made this point itt, but i still don't think i get it. it didn't seem like brandon chose the word "female" very carefully (really like he was just picking the most prosaic thing possible other than "woman" because y'know that's actually in the song), but why is it 'hurled from the same lips that favor 'bitch''????

female as a noun is largely about the tone of voice. so if you've never heard a man talk about "a female" in that way then I guess you wouldn't get it. it's basically talking about women like they're animals. female as an adjective isn't so bad, but has been kind of tarnished by the association imo.

agree that the shots at hipsters felt a little cheap, but not enough to undercut the validity of the author's main points or the piece as a whole. i don't reject the insiders/outsiders division being drawn.

and "lady" has the dark history of being associated with Jerry Lewis movies

it's also a pretty huge strawman. i don't know brandon personally but just generally speaking the fact that he's white doesn't mean that he's a hipster who goes to artisanal bars (and all the economic/social implications that go along w/ that characterization)

xp to een

artisanal beer is not really a 'thing,' shouldve gone w/ microbrews

idg why the ebony article tries to tie the "female" issue to race and culture.

"it's basically talking about women like they're animals."

yeah this. pretty common.

idg why the ebony article tries to tie the "female" issue to race and culture.

Because in my experience white guys don't call women "females" in that way?

something i realized a long time ago is that if you're white and you listen to hip hop, there's pretty much no type of hip hop you can listen to that doesn't open you up to an obvious "of course you like THAT kind of hip hop, because you're white and..." potshot. gangsta rap, conscious rap, white rappers, there's a killer zing for all of 'em. and you only invite those if you argue for one type of rap over the other, especially if you do so articulately and/or as a professional critic. sometimes it's a conversation worth having, but it's also pretty frequently exhausting and fruitless.

white racists will often refer to black women as female in the animal/breeder sense. have since the good old slave days.

also while i love the 8-ball and mjg tapes thing, i think this part was a little sensitive for a Chief Keef cheap shot.

Because in my experience white guys don't call women "females" in that way?

Someone hasn't been watching recent seasons of The Real World

(NOTE: I do not recommend watching recent seasons of The Real World)

Because in my experience white guys don't call women "females" in that way?

hmm, ok. not the case in my experience at all. I think it's pretty heavily ingrained in police and military culture. the people I've heard say it that way are pretty uh... I guess "rural" would be the polite way to put it.

Because in my experience white guys don't call women "females" in that way?

Oh dude hang out around frat dudes, cops, stock brokers, etc and you'll hear it plenty.

also while i love the 8-ball and mjg tapes thing, i think this part was a little sensitive for a Chief Keef cheap shot.

you realize this reads like you saying, yeah the older heads are tools of the man but why she gotta be angry at ME
― The muted sensation feels amazeballs. (forksclovetofu), Monday, August 27, 2012 12:03 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

no i didn't, probably because in my mind the stereotype of a white guy w/ pretensions to being a real head is still centered around fetishism of 90s gangster rap more than anything else. and ME ftr well i love both

okeydoke

the spin guy should just hang out with more thinkpiece-writing raconteurs who spend their days on hip-hop panels. maybe he'll learn something.

and yeah fair enough wrt the female thing, it honestly isn't something i hear but i can see it taking on a demeaning tone.

as for "lady," some dude's Jerry Lewis joke aside, it really does carry a slight antifeminist connotation for me, almost like 'sweetheart'--like trying to flatter a woman in a way that is actually condescending. but that's obviously the kind of cultural discrepancy the article is pointing out, and i do think it's an amazing piece altogether

the piece also operates with the base position that all gangster rap is harmful/poisonous. based off brandon's writing, he doesn't presume the same about backpack/conscious rap even tho he doesn't like lupe. it also (like lupe's song) ignores every other factor that influences how kids act/think. there's a presumption in the piece (as far criticism of music goes) that if you eradicated waka flocka and 2 chainz and boosie and elevated lupe, the world would be a much better place for kids, and i don't think that's true at all.

skateboards everywhere

there's also just so many false binaries going on, because, like 8Ball is basically a conscious rapper if you actually listen to his albums, and Lupe always makes a big deal of having listened to Ball & G more than A Tribe Called Quest growing up.

also it ignores whether or not the song is enjoyable to listen to as music (it isn't)

artisanal beer is not really a 'thing,' shouldve gone w/ microbrews

― max, Monday, August 27, 2012 12:57 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

guys its called 'craft beer'

the piece also operates with the base position that all gangster rap is harmful/poisonous. based off brandon's writing, he doesn't presume the same about backpack/conscious rap even tho he doesn't like lupe. it also (like lupe's song) ignores every other factor that influences how kids act/think. there's a presumption in the piece (as far criticism of music goes) that if you eradicated waka flocka and 2 chainz and boosie and elevated lupe, the world would be a much better place for kids, and i don't think that's true at all.

This guy from the Spin comments section is trying to think that line of argument to the bloody end:

What people and this generation of listeners who are so riled up at Brandon for is pointless. He is opinionated and obviously isn't a fan of what Lupe Fiasco was trying to say, but so what, he's a small fry compared to the larger problem. The wasted energy of boycotting Spin magazine does not help the focus of the argument or motive of this all. Lupe and other like minded people should be attacking the people who use the word and make it more a problem in the world today. Let's start with all of YMCMB, MMG, Azalea Banks, Cam'ron, Nick Minaj, French Montana, Lil B, Mike Posner, Drake, Odd Future, Riff Raff The Weeknd, Trey Songz, Kreayshawn, B.o.B, Iggy Azalea, the list goes on, WSHH, then go after radio personalities, and media mainstream that force the use of the word upon us and make it normal. Sending hate comments to Brandon is so trivial, go on to the twitter of those people who degrade women and boycott them and there music and what they do. Lupe you should too, I mean , he is on the same bill (lineup) of performers who apparently use the word in it's worst ways. If You Lupe can't stand up against the actual people who are creating the problem, your just a false prophet. True leaders make sacrifices even if they lose popularity, music friends, or whatever in the industry, but it will create a true voice of others to rally behind till that change is made. If you aren't after a major change then stop all together. Go after the real problem. The ones who perpetuate the problem.

http://www.retro-housewife.com/images/holiday/christmas/2006/peace-love-gap.jpg

The ones who perpetuate the problem are major corporations like BUZZMEDIA OMG

it just feels ironic to me that a critic responded to an impersonal song that makes large blanket statements about what people should and should not say by making an impersonal large blanket statement about what people should and should not say. How can you end a review with "the discussion doesn't need a backpack rap hustler selling cynicism" and not realize you yourself are selling cynicism? If he just admitted he doesn't get anything out of a particular moralistic rap, rather than trying to say this kind of moralism is The Real Enemy, people might feel less of a need to call him out.

yet largely influenced by White male label executives, fans

this premise also sounded pretty outdated to me. obviously i don't have numbers but there's a number of important black executives at rap/r&b labels now and as rap falling off the pop charts (at least compared to 10 years ago) has coincided with a concentration around the core of the fanbase.

most rap critics (predominant ones especially) are white males but people always ascribe too much power/importance to critics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Re6pZri8Gw

also it ignores whether or not the song is enjoyable to listen to as music (it isn't)

― young money color me badd (J0rdan S.), Monday, August 27, 2012 1:22 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

to be fair the entire began with someone saying "put aside the music entirely, let's just critique the message of the song"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kRIV23LQyI
this bitch bad

the piece also operates with the base position that all gangster rap is harmful/poisonous.

not sure this is true? seems to operate with the base position that harmful/poisonous crap is harmful/poisonous. that most of her examples in talking about this in a hip hop context come from gangster rap isn't at all surprising.

xp (just hoping we can work santeria into the discussion somehow)

true -- i mean in general i think when discussions like this blow up on a larger scale, the conversation gradually loses whatever root it has in music, and there's a whole lot of elements there that affect how people feel about these songs. "bitch bad" is not an essay.

that's an xp to ship