Is SPIN really circling the drain?

don't think deej is either

contenderizer is white?

don't think deej is either

then the surrogate he sent to the bar with me was a ruse...damn you deej you win again

i mean that deej is speaking mostly about etiquette for white guys weighing in on stuff like this, which seems appropriate

lex is not a white guy

i know, fair enough. if you think deej was out of line there, i'll leave it to him to defend himself.

i kind of agree with this but you don't go far enough. As a critic there are times you HAVE to be strident & forceful. I think this comes down to less being sensitive & feeling like you're walking on thin ice all the time, than writing as precisely as possible, being able to back up what you say (these are basics for all writers), and most importantly, being very aware of the dynamics of the conflict you're about to embark on. Just as in the real world, you don't overcompensate by stammering & acting awkward & giving up your critical judgements or principles just because you are talking to a nonwhite person, but you also don't bombard them with condescension.

I agree with this.

Lex is also british, not black, and not a part of the discussion that the tweet I linked was referring to.

Lex has decided the dynamics of gender justify the tonal arrogance of the piece. I linked to the perspective of an african american writer who disagreed and found the piece culturally arrogant. all ive said is that I thought as a critic one should be aware of these dynamics, and as a nonblack critic, when a prominent black intellectual checks u by saying your piece is "culturally arrogant," take a step back and think about why. You dont nec. need yo reconsider your conclusion even, but def your approach

To not yo (fucking swype)

The shittiness of the song justifies the tonal arrogance of the piece.

The opposing argument would say the lack of voices addressing the issue it presents means it should be handled carefully regardless of the shittiness of the song

i can't tell--does anyone think this song has redeeming qualities?

no one is qualified to offer that opinion

Dude Perspective would be an amazing name for a fictional rock star character in a Pynchon book

The opposing argument would say the lack of voices addressing the issue it presents means it should be handled carefully regardless of the shittiness of the song

The totally hamfisted and offensive way the song addresses the issue trumps any pat on the back Fiasco thinks he should get for effort. And if he really wants have a conversation he should welcome any voice to the debate and engage with them if he thinks they're wrong. Not just #boycott them and then sit back while his fans get all "how dare the jew attack our culture".

Its not about what lupe deserves, its about what the issue deserves

i can't tell--does anyone think this song has redeeming qualities?

― call all destroyer, Saturday, August 25, 2012 6:22 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i dont think anyone's even arguing about the song, more about the ~kerfluffle~

https://twitter.com/Brz0z0wski/status/239501855883935744

xp i know i'm just actually curious about that question

brainwasher likes it which is kind of freaking me out

i like the beat \o_O/

I was really hoping post-Lasers Lupe was going to go back to the shit I liked about The Cool but it seems like he has just taken that shit I liked and made it extra super stupid

I bought The Cool on CD and listened to exactly once, possibly twice

is lupe friends with kanye? they seem annoying in a similar way.

Kanye gave Lupe a leg up very early on but it seems like aside from that 'Child Rebel Soldier' group that did one song they haven't crossed paths at all the last five years

i can't tell--does anyone think this song has redeeming qualities?

― call all destroyer, Saturday, August 25, 2012 4:22 PM (Yesterday)

fuck no. it sucks.

if someone has already said they do you can't really answer no to that question

i talked to everybody. they said i could speak for them.

Parental Advisory bad.... clean edits better.

Lex has decided the dynamics of gender justify the tonal arrogance of the piece.

i don't think the spin piece is perfect but the arrogance is not its main problem. do you have any links to pieces expanding on the racial issues? pref not written by a dude

newsflash: you're a dude

https://twitter.com/nualacabral/status/239209757192380417

the conversation i was reading that i linked to mark anthony neal & bakari kitwana comments on was w/ this woman, who engaged w/ him on twitter & apparently found the piece culturally arrogant.

oh here she did a 'storify' thing on her take on it

http://storify.com/nualacabral/on-bitch-bad-lupe-fiasco?utm_campaign=&utm_medium=sfy.co-twitter&awesm=sfy.co_a61h&utm_content=storify-pingback&utm_source=t.co

fwiw i'm not even nec. agreeing w/ what shes saying as ive said, just that I would rethink how I approach this sort of thing if I saw this kind of resistance.

but im not sure why im telling that to one of ilx's most strident posters lol

I'm sure we can all agree that Brandon's tone doesn't always make him more friends. But isn't this at least partly about whom the "black community" is willing to receive such criticisms from? So much of the anger seems to rest on a conception of Brandon and Spin being outsiders to a "real conversation".

Or to put it another, more constructive (perhaps) way, just how do you think a critique of the Bitch Bad video and song could be presented in a way that did not seem culturally arrogant in, say, a publication such as Spin?

I find this kinda thread really weird...can people actually get that worked up about a Lupe Fiasco song?

there's a bit of concern trolling going on at every layer of this, yeah

just how do you think a critique of the Bitch Bad video and song could be presented in a way that did not seem culturally arrogant in, say, a publication such as Spin?

what is "a publication such as spin"? its purview in the early days was alternative music and culture, and that's still its primary focus. like many music magazines, its readership skews young. the one thing i notice looking at the magazine's "about us" page is that all the pictured executives, editors and contributors at least seem to be white.

newsflash: you're a dude

― The rain in Spin circles mainly on the mansplain (D-40), Monday, August 27, 2012 7:19 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol

can someone please mansplain concern trolling to me please

http://www.ebony.com/entertainment-culture/whats-so-bad-about-lupes-latest-single-622

He goes on to reiterate Hogan’s assertion that the song is guilty of “mansplaining,” but in the very next sentence asks “but does any female want to be called "a lady"?

Son.

This is what happens when a person who is far removed from someone else’s world decides not only to peek in, but also tries to narrate from the outside. Speaking as an Actual Black Woman, not Race Non Specific Pretend Woman referenced in this article, I can tell you that the word “female” is a far greater point of contention than “lady” amongst sisters. And while plenty of women eschew the word “lady” or the expectation that one has to be “ladylike” to be respectable, others still cling tightly to the term and the traits. “Female,” however, is a term often hurled from the same lips that favor “b*tch.”

I don’t care how hip-hop ‘approved’ you are, how many Eightball and MJG tapes you have from seventh grade or even if you bothered to take an Afro-studies class at whatever liberal arts college that taught you how to wax poetic about Dipset, you are on the outside.

dang

This is White privilege at its finest: being able to complain that there aren’t enough narratives about Black death and pain on the Pop stations, without being touched by said death and pain outside of one’s headphones or whatever corny hipster bar one goes to drink artisanal beer and nod awkwardly along to Chief Keef.

hammer

boom

thank you jamilah lemieux

the fact that none of that shit seems even to have occurred to anyone at spin is kind of jaw-dropping

lol, was gonna quote those same three passages

there you go, lex!

i would probably like hipster bars with artisanal beer a lot better if they played chief keef

lock thread!

oh wait this is still a spin thread. never mind.

I have not yet heard "B*tch Bad" yet but that response is amazing