The Pitchfork People's List - top albums 1996-2012

i'm saying that 'narcissistic' is the wrong word because listmaking is not abnormal. pretty simple, some dude

I hear that you and your band have sold your cargo pants and bought jeans. I hear that you and your band have sold your jeans and bought cargo pants

sorry deej

d-40 you're conflating sharing tastes with writing long lists of THE TOP MUSIC from 1996-2012

difference between pinterest and rateyourmusic

okay that's the first thing written about this whole exercise that's made me feel bad about myself for participating

well ideally listmaking would be closer to the former than the latter imo, that's how i used this exercise anyway. looked at lists from ppl who's taste interests me, found records i hadn't heard in awhile or had avoided, thought abt stuff, idk it was fun

well you've got the self-esteem for it

I wonder how many keyboards have been irreparably damaged by replies to this thread.

*narcissism all over my keyboard*

"here's my top 50 albums and i don't care if they're the best, they're what i love at the moment" may actually be a level of pride above "i have painstakingly gone through my collection and here are my top 50 albums after looking to reaffirm they're within the right timeframe"

self-expression, creativity, and lots of forms of communication bring a lot of good in the world while still having some degree of narcissism motivating the initial impulse. i don't know why seemingly everyone but you can reconcile that, deej.

well you've got the self-esteem for it

― da croupier, Wednesday, August 22, 2012 11:38 AM (45 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i cant claim to know, i just think casting listmaking in a negative light is unproductive to making conversations more open & inviting to more people.

why don't you educate her yourself

self-expression, creativity, and lots of forms of communication bring a lot of good in the world while still having some degree of narcissism motivating the initial impulse. i don't know why seemingly everyone but you can reconcile that, deej.

― some dude, Wednesday, August 22, 2012 11:40 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

if you think narcissism is behind everything then yes but it seemed like there was an attempt in that discussion to differentiate music listmaking from discussions of say literature or w/e

why don't you educate her yourself

― da croupier, Wednesday, August 22, 2012 11:42 AM (12 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

being a condescending dick is something you do so well though

also neat how you conflated listmaking and conversations there

if you think narcissism is behind everything then yes but it seemed like there was an attempt in that discussion to differentiate music listmaking from discussions of say literature or w/e

well no, I think there was an attempt to differentiate contributing a list to an exercise intended to generate the best albums of the past 16 years to talking about a book at your book club

"by implying me making a list of my favorite music and unveiling it for discussion on facebook is narcissist you are stifling conversations"

"here's my top 50 albums and i don't care if they're the best, they're what i love at the moment" may actually be a level of pride above "i have painstakingly gone through my collection and here are my top 50 albums after looking to reaffirm they're within the right timeframe"

― da croupier, Wednesday, August 22, 2012 11:40 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

OK. i don't really care if its about pride or self confidence or selfishness or whatever the motivation was, my point was that her word choice seemed designed to suggest it was kind of pointless & my point was, of which cultural products is that NOT true?

"by implying me making a list of my favorite music and unveiling it for discussion on facebook is narcissist you are stifling conversations"

― da croupier, Wednesday, August 22, 2012 11:44 AM (18 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

but when a group of people are doing it, it becomes a conversation

well no, I think there was an attempt to differentiate contributing a list to an exercise intended to generate the best albums of the past 16 years to talking about a book at your book club

― Lil Swayne of Pie (DJP), Wednesday, August 22, 2012 11:44 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

effectively for me it has been a conversation? i mean there's ilx threads (more than one) devoted to that conversation

what a conversation

what a conversation

― Fareed Zaireeka (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, August 22, 2012 11:48 AM (49 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol ilx regular.

this is that thing where we're all so self-deprecating that it verges on self hatred right?

http://cdn2.holytaco.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/what-a-country-yakov.jpg

Here is ILX's top albums if anyone wants to look:

Great music discoveries from other people's (p4k) lists I want to talk about

listmaking is totally narcissistic, and yes, so are a lot of other things. I think the distinction is far more in a) the labor that taking listmaking seriously requires and b) the self-esteem it takes to imply you've done the labor (or on the flip, the self-esteem to announce you haven't done the labor but used the form anyway). Both of which she acknowledges. If anyone's really hurt that this is being called narcissistic congrats, you're an oversensitive narcissist.

otm

you turning this into being about me is what i meant by 'condescending dick' btw

if you're vehemently arguing a POV that nobody else agrees with then guess what it becomes about you

i can see why someone might say that it's somewhat narcissistic to make and publicly share lists of what you consider THE BEST MUSIC. in addition to interest in the subject, it requires not only a fair measure of faith in your own judgement, but faith that your judgement will be of interest and/or use to others. otoh hand, i can see why "narcissism" is a divisive term. it's an unnecessarily pejorative way to describe the phenomena in question, but it's not so completely off the mark as to be unacceptable to me. i just view it as a mean-spirited synonym for "ego" or "self-confidence".

ime, men do seem to carry around a bit more of this particular brand of interest-driven, GOAT-list-oriented self-confidence ("narcissism", w/e).

and the love below is brilliant fuiud

I sometimes wonder how some people on this board get through a day without having a nervous breakdown over the sociopolitical implications of, say, buying a pack of gum.

if you're vehemently arguing a POV that nobody else agrees with then guess what it becomes about you

― some dude, Wednesday, August 22, 2012 11:58 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

'nobody agrees with' -- there are three of us involved & the two of you disagree w/ me about nearly everything anyway

lot of people reading and posting in this thread right now. do you think they agree with you but are women who don't feel comfortable speaking up?

GET OFF MY P4K LIST THREAD

^ "my"

listmaking is totally narcissistic, and yes, so are a lot of other things. I think the distinction is far more in a) the labor that taking listmaking seriously requires and b) the self-esteem it takes to imply you've done the labor (or on the flip, the self-esteem to announce you haven't done the labor but used the form anyway). Both of which she acknowledges. If anyone's really hurt that this is being called narcissistic congrats, you're an oversensitive narcissist.

― da croupier, Wednesday, August 22, 2012 11:56 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this isn't about me 'hurting'. i feel like people should be encouraged to participate in the process rather than be shamed from doing so. if that means, for example, not talking about it like its the BEST ALBUMS which frankly I haven't done since i was idk 19 or something anyway then that would be one way to do it. In my opinion, the way she framed it made it seem more trivial or silly, but i don't know that this really helps make for a more balanced conversation. it just belittles the conversation

lot of people reading and posting in this thread right now. do you think they agree with you but are women who don't feel comfortable speaking up?

― some dude, Wednesday, August 22, 2012 12:04 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i dunno but i'm sure a lot of people don't like getting involved in these stupid fights you & i always seem to get into b/c they end up catty & stupid

sorry, deej

d-40 you are conflating the format "listmaking" with the conversation "sharing tastes in music" - if people have beef with the form, they're not "belittling the conversation"

i guess i use listmaking for the purpose of conversation so i don't really see the easy delineation

that's really narcissistic of you, fyi

'narcissistic' is definitely a negative term here guys. Deej has a point.

Maybe one of the key issues being described in that article is this kind of feedback loop of 'I like music, but i find the idea of discussing it in the form of lists and hierarchies to be intimidating and off putting, therefore I don't get involved, therefore I'm not represented by the list, which means I'm even less involved which means I'm even less inclined to participate... Just let me be a music fan please!'

Not sure if this is just a reflection on gender or just a reflection on people. I feel quite self-conscious sometimes that I'm the music geek in my group of friends and would happily rabbit on about 'best albums' and 'who played guitar on what' and junk until the cows come home. But I know that this kind of behaviour, rather than intriguing and encouraging others, can have absolutely the opposite effect for a lot of people.

That was a major xpost btw

I like how City of Daughters is on the age 10-15 distinction index o_0

early destroyer - its what the kids are listening to.

ever since i those demographic breakdowns dropped i've been trying to wrap my head around the idea of 10 year olds reading pitchfork. i feel like their parents should be alerted or something.

i dunno i read spin at 12 and look how i turned out

yeah it's weird to think about but i started reading music publications around 10-12 and was a pretty voracious reader of that stuff by 13