7 years of prison for pussy riot?

some varied post-verdict thoughts:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/21/opinion/the-wrong-reasons-to-back-pussy-riot.html

hmmmm? blaming the dissidents

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444443504577600763679287008.html

more straight-forward

How many fans of Pussy Riot’s zany “punk prayer” in the Cathedral of Christ the Savior and Nadezhda Tolokonnikova’s erudite and moving closing statement were equally thrilled by her participation, naked and heavily pregnant, in a public orgy at a Moscow museum in 2008?

still pretty jazzed

i actually have been wondering about that "public orgy" -- a lot of ppl have been writing about it as though it were a, i guess, "real" orgy? but most of the contemporary accts describe it as staged sex.

i guess it doesnt quite "matter" -- you can see some photos here http://plucer.livejournal.com/55710.html -- but it still feels like a kind of important distinction to make?

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lat3avvu791qe4or4o1_500.png

I think it's still possible to support their release from detention without buying into their whole ideology but the first piece makes some legitimate points about the lack of interest in the context of Russian politics beyond "the state is bad and opposition to the state must be good".

I really wish people would stop comparing Pussy Riot and Khordokovsky and giving him a platform to spout his propaganda unchallenged.

I think it's awful that they're going to jail for this and I even plan to discuss this in a fall course. However, I also think it is worth questioning why this case has received so much more press coverage than this person's case (current front page of the Amnesty site) ever did: me: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/14/iran-nasrin-sotoudeh-jail-sentence

Could there be any merit to any arguments here, as provocatively written as they may be?: http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/106278/the-story-pussy-riot

Don't know how that "me" got in there.

I think people have largely given up hope that external campaigning is going to make a blind bit of difference in Iran and Pakistan but still feel it can have an impact on a country with strong political and economic links to Europe and the US. Might have been nice to see a little more about the trial of a group of Kazakh oil workers though.

http://www.hrw.org/news/2012/08/15/kazakhstan-ensure-fair-trial-opposition-activists-oil-worker

from that nytimes thing:

Some outlets have portrayed the case as a quest for freedom of expression and other ground rules of liberal democracy. Yet the very phrase “freedom of expression,” with its connotations of genteel protest as a civic way to blow off some steam while life goes on, is alien to Russian radical thought. The members of Pussy Riot are not liberals looking for self-expression. They are self-confessed descendants of the surrealists and the Russian futurists, determined to radically, even violently, change society.

watch out! do not assume these women are like us. this country actually values its dissident artistic tradition. it isn't just a lifestyle accessory for them! be very careful.

idk how much coverage this story is getting except on my facebook feed, where admittedly it is getting a lot (from people heretofore uninterested in russia). i'm sure it is being overcovered since it's about a punk girl band called pussy riot, but what are you gonna do. besides, punk girl bands need more coverage in general and siloviki-regime rights violations definitely do in particular, since some of putin's major strengths are (internationally) his feigned democracy and (domestically) the impression that his harshness was/is necessary to bring the country under control (and even that he stands against the gangsters rather than just for his own gangsters). this is the second major mass-media crack of the last nine months in both ideas. also that closing statement was all kinds of otm.

I definitely think the fact that they're a feminist punk band has a lot to do with the import my facebook/twitter cohort place upon them, but that's because a large number of them are feminist punks. I've been consciously trying to juggle my support for Pussy Riot with bringing other political injustices to light, but I'm very aware that cause célèbres happen, and they're not always bad things.

oh and the wsj:

The proximity of the Pussy Riot verdict to the scheduled announcement of Russia's accession to the World Trade Organization, due to be formalized on Wednesday, captures the strange chimera that is Mr. Putin's Russia. On the one hand, the Russian Federation is taking major strides toward economic modernization. On the other, it's a country that will sentence young women to two years in prison for an irreverent political protest—after seriously debating the evidential requirements for proving demonic possession.

a country that's in the wto AND repressive, authoritarian, and superstitious?! truly, a chimera. wrapped in a medusa. (piece otherwise seems fine, speculates levelheadedly about what putin's cost-benefit analysis must have been.)

The Guardian makes a Pussy Riot video from news footage:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/video/2012/aug/17/pussy-riot-release-new-single-video

To clarify, it's for this new song ( via same publicist as the above Free Pussy Riot reading etc)
Pussy Riot shares their new song, “Putin Lights Up the Fires” with the world HERE (link for the Guardian video). This is the art group’s first musical piece since the "Virgin Mary, Please Drive Putin Away" for which three members were found guilty of hooliganism driven by religious hatred and sentenced to two years in jail. The Guardian has edited the new song to a montage of Pussy Riot members and their supporters. Even though the song was released on Friday, the translated lyrics have just been revealed today.

PUSSY RIOT "Putin Lights Up the Fires" lyrics:
(translation credit: @Russian_Market)

This state may be stronger than time in jail.

The more arrests, the happier it is.
Every arrest is carried out with love for the sexist

Who botoxed his cheeks and pumped his chest and abs.

But you can't nail us in the coffin.
Throw off the yoke of former KGB!

Putin is lighting the fires of revolution
He's bored and scared of sharing silence with the people
With every execution: the stench of rotten ash
With every long sentence: a wet dream

The country is going, the country is going into the streets boldly
The country is going, the country is going to bid farewell to the regime
The country is going, the country is going, like a feminist wedge
And Putin is going, Putin is going to say goodbye like a sheep

Arrest the whole city for May 6th
Seven years isn't enough, give us 18!
Forbid us to scream, walk and curse!
Go and marry Father Lukashenko

The 6th letter from detention written by Nadia:
http://www.freepussyriot.org/content/6th-letter-detention-nadia-written-eve-verdict

And Livestream's still got an archive of videos, docs etc posted during the reading
https://new.livestream.com/accounts/1294758/events/1050371

idk how much coverage this story is getting except on my facebook feed

It was the top story on the CBC News page a day or two ago. More than one celebrity, including Madonna, has spoken publicly about it.

http://www.bing.com/search?q=bbc+pussy+riot&src=IE-SearchBox&Form=IE8SRC
http://www.bing.com/search?q=ny+times+pussy+riot&qs=n&form=QBRE&pq=ny+times+pussy+riot&sc=0-0&sp=-1&sk=

Fwiw:
http://www.bing.com/search?q=bbc+nasrin+sotoudeh&src=IE-SearchBox&Form=IE8SRC
http://www.bing.com/search?q=ny+times+nasrin+sotoudeh&qs=n&form=QBRE&pq=ny+times+nasrin+sotoudeh&sc=0-0&sp=-1&sk=

That nytimes op-ed is just insane.

standing behind Pussy Riot only now, when it is obviously blameless and the government clearly guilty, is pure opportunism

http://www.vice.com/read/we-too-are-hooligans

*barfs*

inspiring

why the hell am I still clicking on Red State links when I won't go near Vice with a ten foot pole

But no amount of bitching, or blogging, or tweeting was making me, or any of the rest of us, feel like we were doing enough to show that we felt something about this. That we cared.

"Fuck it. Let's get tattoos."

poss. key phrase

yeah this is a hall of fame "lol privileged white kids" story

lol

He concentrated on his beer during the ouchy parts. He concentrated on his beer during the ouchy parts. He concentrated on his beer during the ouchy parts. He concentrated on his beer during the ouchy parts. He concentrated on his beer during the ouchy parts. He concentrated on his beer during the ouchy parts.

From NYT op-ed:

Pussy Riot’s fans in the West need to understand that their heroes’ dissent will not stop at Putin; neither will it stop if and when Russia becomes a “normal” liberal democracy. Because what Pussy Riot wants is something that is equally terrifying, provocative and threatening to the established order in both Russia and the West (and has been from time immemorial): freedom from patriarchy, capitalism, religion, conventional morality, inequality and the entire corporate state system. We should only support these brave women if we, too, are brave enough to go all the way.

Terrifying? I dunno, at least half of those I'd be fine with. Freedom from patriarchy? Let's go!

ha, apparently (via google translate) хулиган can mean "molester" as well as "hooligan".

OH NOES PUSSY RIOT WANT FREEDOM FROM PATRIARCHY? HOW COULD I HAVE BEEN SO BLIND?

We should only support these brave women if we, too, are brave enough to go all the way.

This is idiotic. If anything, defending freedom of expression is more meaningful when we defend the freedom of people we don't agree with.

I think the writer is at least reasonably sympathetic to their aims. The gist of the piece, as far i saw it, was that the politicians and newspapers lining up to support them would probably hate them with a passion if they tried to pull the same thing in the US, UK or France and that to only engage with their ideas as a freedom of speech issue does them a disservice.

ha, apparently (via google translate) хулиган can mean "molester" as well as "hooligan"

football molesters

to only engage with their ideas as a freedom of speech issue does them a disservice.

But what if the freedom of speech issue is what concerns you? I'd defend the freedom of speech of a Nazi sympathizer as well. Do I need to like their music too in order to oppose the jailing (because I don't especially)?

Does Pussy Riot have a manifesto somewhere? Have they spoken about all those other issues? I don't disbelieve that they might believe in all those things; I'm just wondering. This op-ed was the only place I heard about them having an all-encompassing radical ideology.

I agree that the article doesn't necessarily make a strong case but there's more than a grain of truth in saying that organs like the Daily Mail and Vice which have traditionally had fairly strong sexist and racist agendas are missing at least some of Pussy Riot's intended message while claiming solidarity with them. The freedom of speech issue probably can stand alone, though.

Voina has been involved in a lot of different actions that aren't specifically related to freedom of speech issues but i can't recall ever seeing a full manifesto. I imagine, as an art collective, they've probably got one though.

not a manifesto, but those linked statements and letters are pretty strong.

Benefit, proceeds to Pussy Riot Legal Defense Fund--will this be a trend, is it already? Hope so.

http://ih.constantcontact.com/fs071/1102000774575/img/1510.png

Sorry!
http://ih.constantcontact.com/fs071/1102000774575/img/1510.png

It's in L.A.

But what if the freedom of speech issue is what concerns you? I'd defend the freedom of speech of a Nazi sympathizer as well.

Uh. Really? I've kinda held back from this debate because I've agree with most of what has been said - and, well, I don't post much. But this is off, IMO. I cannot defend, for example, David Irving's right to deny the holocaust which led to him being barred from Germany, where that is a criminal offence in that country. Going further still, I won't defend the right of a Nazi sympathiser in the UK for any espousal of race hate, where it is a criminal offence to incite racial hatred.

i grant nations the right to self-govern, but as an american speaking about my own country, sure, i'd defend the right of a holocaust denier to put forth that view. i don't think that erroneous thinking can be effectively countered if it isn't given the chance to present itself publicly.

in a more general (and perhaps arrogant) sense, i think that all people should be free to speak their minds in this manner.

I will totally defend assholes' right to say assholish things in public, and that goes for Nazis.

if they cross the line to specifically inciting violence, that's a different story, and is not protected free speech under the 1st Amendment.

otm

imo there is a clear and very real difference between someone saying "Jews should be exterminated" in a general sense and someone pointing at me and saying "kill that Jew over there". Both statements are personally offensive, but only the latter is a direct threat.

Inciting racial hatred can be saying assholish things in public.

hatred is not a crime

eh, not so sure about that myself. my willingness to defend free speech ends at the point where anyone's "extermination" is being called for, whether in a general or specific sense. would defend awful stuff that doesn't edge quite so close to incitement of violence.

Inciting racial hatred is - in the Uk

xp

Uh. Really? I've kinda held back from this debate because I've agree with most of what has been said - and, well, I don't post much. But this is off, IMO. I cannot defend, for example, David Irving's right to deny the holocaust which led to him being barred from Germany, where that is a criminal offence in that country. Going further still, I won't defend the right of a Nazi sympathiser in the UK for any espousal of race hate, where it is a criminal offence to incite racial hatred.

― kraudive, Tuesday, August 21, 2012 11:07 PM (14 minutes ago)

i'm not gonna spend my time lecturing germany for having that law (tho i can't see ANY good that came out of sending irving to prison), but freedom of speech means very little if it doesn't protect awful and offensive views. if we can send ppl to prison for expressing sympathy for the nazis, i don't know what we do with all the leftists down the years who've expressed sympathy for stalin (or lenin, for that matter), or all the nutjobs with confederate flag shirts.

how's that workin out for you guys kraudive. racial hatred all gone yet?

Well. That's different isn't it?

I know a lot of the UK's ultra-white Nationalists have been convicted of just that thing in the last couple of years. This law may have stopped a thuggish element overtake the marginal ultra right wing parties - they have divided into smaller bands of even more unelectable units. Unlike, for example - in France, where the Far Right have found some government.