"I've never..."
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 19 August 2012 13:16 (twelve years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6BjTN25VbE&feature=related
?
― A.R.R.Y. Kane (nakhchivan), Sunday, 19 August 2012 13:19 (twelve years ago) link
??? The answer clearly enters in a second voice around 0:07.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 19 August 2012 13:22 (twelve years ago) link
You can see it on the score here: http://imslp.org/wiki/Violin_Sonata_No.3_in_C_major,_BWV_1005_(Bach,_Johann_Sebastian)#Scores
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 19 August 2012 13:24 (twelve years ago) link
Johann Sebastian’s fugues for unaccompanied violin from the Sonatas, BWV 1001, 1003,
and 1005, play a central role in the violin repertoire. Bach’s conceptualization of the fugues for
solo violin, an instrument that would appear to preclude this sort of contrapuntal writing, is
unique in the Baroque repertoire. This paper identifies precedents to Bach’s creation of fugues
for solo violin. While Bach’s unprecedented and unmatched skill in the fugal genre provided for
the creation of the violin fugues, he drew ideas from existing compositions and techniques.
Specifically, he adopts the formal adaptation of the sonata da chiesa to the solo violin sonata
which occurred in the Italian school of violin playing, notably Arcangelo Corelli. Furthermore,
he builds upon early experimentation with the unaccompanied violin sonata and the development
of virtuoso techniques within the German school of virtuoso violin playing of the late
seventeenth century. Bach’s fugues for solo violin, therefore, represent a synthesis of the Italian
and German traditions of violin playing.
― A.R.R.Y. Kane (nakhchivan), Sunday, 19 August 2012 13:24 (twelve years ago) link
right....multiple voices on an instrument that is conventionally univocal
― A.R.R.Y. Kane (nakhchivan), Sunday, 19 August 2012 13:25 (twelve years ago) link
nb i don't have any theory knowledge
― A.R.R.Y. Kane (nakhchivan), Sunday, 19 August 2012 13:26 (twelve years ago) link
The violin is not a monophonic instrument. Check the score I linked: a second voice enters in m. 4 and a THIRD voice enters in m. 10.
2xpost
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 19 August 2012 13:27 (twelve years ago) link
no.....but i don't think anybody wrote for the violin like this prior to him? biber maybe?
― A.R.R.Y. Kane (nakhchivan), Sunday, 19 August 2012 13:29 (twelve years ago) link
maybe Corelli
― clouds, Sunday, 19 August 2012 13:31 (twelve years ago) link
Baltzar, Biber, Walther, and Westhoff are listed as German antecedents here: http://drum.lib.umd.edu/bitstream/1903/2912/1/umi-umd-2703.pdf
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Monday, 20 August 2012 17:09 (twelve years ago) link
Talking of centenaries has anyone caught any performances of Pierrot Lunaire?
I've missed one that I know of in NYC, probably more I didn't notice. I should really keep a sharper eye out; this is a bucket-list piece for me to see in performance
― Lewis Apparition (Jon Lewis), Monday, 20 August 2012 17:23 (twelve years ago) link
I guess that a fugue could be of ideas and/or rhythms and need not be polyphonic? Or you could just play a single voice of a fugue and it'd be beautiful and the polyphony would be implied?
Anyway there's some/lots of polyphonic music for violin/cello pre-Bach but those solo sonatas/suites were revolutionary insofar as they extended 'violinistic technique'. (Also, those violin fugues are uh 'bad pieces' as far as I'm concerned, save the g-minor, they're the hardest to learn and the hardest to sell)
― nedless summer (Ówen P.), Monday, 20 August 2012 17:35 (twelve years ago) link
I've just never known of another single-voice fugue so I'm interested to see what this guy did with this idea. It's likely that it's along the lines of what you suggest.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Monday, 20 August 2012 17:43 (twelve years ago) link
who have you been trying to sell them too ówen?
― A.R.R.Y. Kane (nakhchivan), Monday, 20 August 2012 17:44 (twelve years ago) link
too
Me personally? Nobody, those fugues are good for nothing but auditions. You can't play them at weddings or funerals. They're not flashy enough for a recital or beautiful enough for church service.
― nedless summer (Ówen P.), Monday, 20 August 2012 17:49 (twelve years ago) link
The high-water mark in Bach solo violin polyphonic writing is imho the Adagio from Sonata 3 (C major), pretty much the most beautiful thing ever written, Youtube it, I'll listen to Hahn, Ehnes and John Holloway playing it back-to-back-to-back
― nedless summer (Ówen P.), Monday, 20 August 2012 17:53 (twelve years ago) link
Fuck it this is so beautiful I'm gonna post it on the drone thread
― nedless summer (Ówen P.), Monday, 20 August 2012 17:55 (twelve years ago) link
lack of flashiness no bad thing
― A.R.R.Y. Kane (nakhchivan), Monday, 20 August 2012 17:55 (twelve years ago) link
xpost of course I don't have any of those three -- I have Kremer II, St. John, J. Fischer, and Grumiaux
― Lewis Apparition (Jon Lewis), Monday, 20 August 2012 17:57 (twelve years ago) link
milstein for all that
kremer ii i have heard, perlman
zehetmair is v dry if u go in for it
― A.R.R.Y. Kane (nakhchivan), Monday, 20 August 2012 18:00 (twelve years ago) link
I kiss Gidon for his Ysaye forever but his Bach makes me want to [do something negative]. Milstein and Grimeaux are good.
People are all *roll eyes* when people say Hahn anything but her robot technique works excellent for me on Bach and if she ever records the complete sonatas/suites I'll buy ten copies.
Seriously: seek out John Holloway for his Baroque performances, he gets a little shaky on some of the toughies but his tone and intonation are just heartwrenching
― nedless summer (Ówen P.), Monday, 20 August 2012 18:04 (twelve years ago) link
Holloway is on iTunes, get a sample over there
I have zero Holloway recordings somehow! I remember his Biber Rosary Sonatas got rave reviews back in the day.
I have nothing against Hahn. She somehow came up with a new recording of the Sibelius concerto that felt fresh to me after all the ones I've had and loved. The Schoenberg on the same disc was also awesome.
― Lewis Apparition (Jon Lewis), Monday, 20 August 2012 18:51 (twelve years ago) link
^ don't tell a Finn that
― nedless summer (Ówen P.), Monday, 20 August 2012 22:47 (twelve years ago) link
Rachel Podger's Bach recordings (with historical instrument) are very good
― Balinese sound killers (Pangangge Tengenan) (clouds), Tuesday, 21 August 2012 11:43 (twelve years ago) link
Listened to Hahn's recording twice yesterday.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 21 August 2012 14:12 (twelve years ago) link
...thoughts?
― nedless summer (Ówen P.), Tuesday, 21 August 2012 14:18 (twelve years ago) link
Oh, it was very nice, sorry. Really good piece. I haven't listened to other recordings of it enough to make comparisons about the performance.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 21 August 2012 14:22 (twelve years ago) link
I guess that wasn't the most informative post, ha. Just chiming in that I was listening to your recommendation, I guess.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 21 August 2012 14:24 (twelve years ago) link
Many "Romantic" violinists/cellists make a go at enhancing the drama of Bach Adagios, but I prefer a performance that aims for tranquility, just letting the voicing spin out in the most natural way. Still haven't found a 100% great performance of the Ciaconne but I guess that'll never happen and maybe shouldn't
― nedless summer (Ówen P.), Tuesday, 21 August 2012 15:11 (twelve years ago) link
milsteinnnn
― A.R.R.Y. Kane (nakhchivan), Tuesday, 21 August 2012 15:16 (twelve years ago) link
OK
― nedless summer (Ówen P.), Tuesday, 21 August 2012 15:16 (twelve years ago) link
not by those criteria, but by mine
'the most natural way'...i don't know enough about violins and violinism to say, but this is just the _absolute_, and he was 82 years old too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l75X-SDKq1Y
― A.R.R.Y. Kane (nakhchivan), Tuesday, 21 August 2012 15:18 (twelve years ago) link
Listened to '68 and already, it's not for me. There's enormous amount of open-E on that first page and I like it when the performer integrates its tone instead of having it ring out like baby in the next room.
'86 is so far kind of awesome, holy shit? 82 years old? I like this performance better
― nedless summer (Ówen P.), Tuesday, 21 August 2012 15:19 (twelve years ago) link
Oh my god I'm gonna cry his wrist is so stiffened and still it's so beautiful
― nedless summer (Ówen P.), Tuesday, 21 August 2012 15:20 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.emiclassicsus.com/latest_news/fifty-shades-of-grey-the-classical-album/
― some white dude (Turangalila), Tuesday, 21 August 2012 17:21 (twelve years ago) link
*blows head off*
― Balinese sound killers (Pangangge Tengenan) (clouds), Wednesday, 22 August 2012 12:06 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/aug/15/feldman-crippled-symmetry-review
― Terabytes of FLACS of screaming (Call the Cops), Wednesday, 22 August 2012 17:58 (twelve years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/d3Q7j.jpg
― Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Wednesday, 22 August 2012 22:38 (twelve years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXshbVJL2gc
holy shit
― some white dude (Turangalila), Sunday, 26 August 2012 14:59 (twelve years ago) link
NYer profile of Christian Tetzlaff piqued my interest and I've been working through some of his recordings on Spotify. His Bach Sonatas & Partitas are pretty much revelatory, which is classical-douchebag-speak for awesome.
― look at this quarterstaff (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 29 August 2012 17:23 (twelve years ago) link
Also liked his Brahms violin concerto very much
He really has his own sound, as advertised.
― look at this quarterstaff (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 29 August 2012 17:24 (twelve years ago) link
hes good in the bartok unaccompanied violin sonata
― Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 17:27 (twelve years ago) link
^yes, I v much recommend his Bartok disc with Leif Ove Andsnes. Been meaning to get his Hanssler rerecording of the Bach cycle for years. Also recommended: recent Szymanowski disc with him and Boulez.
NYer article was nice.
― Lewis Apparition (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 29 August 2012 17:32 (twelve years ago) link
the other day i blagged a ticket to this excellent concert
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/aug/26/prom-56-bbcso-knussen/print
and after the end of 'le martyre', plummy voiced woman in the next box exclaimed 'thank GOD, that was almost as bad as mahler'
so many layers of idiocy
― Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 18:10 (twelve years ago) link
Mehler.
― some white dude (Turangalila), Wednesday, 29 August 2012 18:15 (twelve years ago) link