Creedence Clearwater Revival vs the Grateful Dead vs the Band

xps to ua: I'm sorry, dude. I figured it would be low-key enough to slip that in.

I mean, East-West is supposedly one of the key innovators in that area right? So yeah, Coltrane + indian music + blues.

blues + jazz + bluegrass + weed + shankar + LSD + JFK BLOWN AWAY = Long guitar solos

^^ this - I mean - drop acid and try to play a John Lee Hooker cover, the solo will take five times as long and just like that you're the Burrito Brothers

okay I lol'd

sorry, not buying this whole "60s rock dudes were way into blues" theory of yours, gonna have to see a bit of hard evidence, mate

as tyler says, the main melody line of Eight Miles High is very clearly derived from 'India' by Coltrane. Again if memory serves, I think they heard it on a tape made by Brian Jones!

*drives car over cliff in amazement*

xpost to whichever post you prefer

Yeah, they said that the lead guitar on "Eight Miles High" was inspired by Coltrane's modal work, especially "India".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/soldonsong/songlibrary/eightmileshigh.shtml

xposts to wk

Oh ha, the point was made a couple of times now.

UMS, what's your point? you think anyone here doesn't know that McGuinn was influenced by Coltrane? But how exactly does that translate to " you can attribute the whole idea that you can have long solos in rock songs to 'Trane's influence"?

xposts

I mean, really what you're all saying is that the entire idea of long guitar solos in rock can be traced to the 3 minute long "eight miles high", right?

guys, the only person to have played a solo of any kind prior to the Byrds was John Coltrane, this is documented. after that, John Fogerty perfected the long solo, and then in the 80s, Steve Vai took it up a notch. this is not rocket science it's guitars

Ha, OK, I wasn't following the whole discussion, just jumping in when I saw a question. Nm, should stop that.

i guess what i'm saying is that guitars *actually stopped playing AUTOMATICALLY* once the soloist reached the end of a bar before coltrane invented a new guitar.

wait *record scratch* BLUES was a big influence on 60s rock??!?

― Jandek at the Disco (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, August 17, 2012 10:44 AM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Wait the Byrds were influenced by Coltrane??!?

― wk, Friday, August 17, 2012 10:45 AM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wasn't a serious question

Yeah, I needed to read more of the thread to realize that.

I mean, really what you're all saying is that the entire idea of long guitar solos in rock can be traced to the 3 minute long "eight miles high", right?

being overly reductionist here. I cited other examples - the Velvets, the Doors, Hendrix - that started to stretch the format and after that the floodgates were opened.

and afaik, David Crosby also introduced Byrds/Beatles/LA crowd to Ravi Shankar's music via his connections at Liberty/World Pacific as a member of The Jet Set.

sorry, I didn't mean to get all worked up. got kind of annoyed that ums was giving me sass for having the nerve to mention the blues as if I thought I was dropping some kind of revelation there.

I don't even know why I'm arguing this. I'm totally fine with giving the Byrds credit for any and everything because they're the best.

I don't get why Coltrane is being used as a stand-in for the entire form of jazz here. Or why rock musicians were supposed to be not schooled in jazz.

i was just thinking of a comparison to people known for their improvising with healthy coverage of their live output in their catalogues who certainly were big enough to have put out / had put out by others a lot of it.

xxp the wiki entry on Byrds' 'Why' (recorded at the same time as 8 Miles High) has all the deets

these fucking new style poll thread rule, good work dudes

rules

they rule

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcJUuxv8oCE

People like Sandy Bull and Davey Graham should probably get a little credit too.

these fucking new style poll thread rule, good work dudes

― Mr. Que, Friday, August 17, 2012 1:00 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

rules

― Mr. Que, Friday, August 17, 2012 1:00 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

they rule

― Mr. Que, Friday, August 17, 2012 1:01 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

woah....trippy improvisation, very modal posting

wk,

i was just being sassy, i can't help it. i meant you no ill. :)

they

don't you ever sass the BLUES man

my knowledge of electric blues is for shit, but surely some of those dudes were playing long boring solos in the '50s right?

not really on record, afaik

I just wanted to point out that "Eight Miles High" was influenced by John Coltrane, as reported by Ravi Shankar on David Crosby's wiki page, has anyone mentioned this yet

like i always say, if shankar said it on wiki, that's good enough for me

Loling at image of Ravi Shankar editing David Crosby's wiki page

I guess if you didnt know that "Eight Miles High" was influenced by Coltrane, you would know it by reading this thread.

I think we should discuss in depth the fact that "Eight Miles High" was influenced by Coltrane. As were all rock soloists.

{{Sitaration needed}}

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/full/301811523.jpg?key=432640&Expires=1345233858&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIYVGSUJFNRFZBBTA&Signature=0J3UXiJGFMRXI9LnADgkd~pbF4-HqlrKn84QQt8NEePArmd3wHxG5FLd7LZCkQShPEURjsGqLBWWKzlTS6b-Z7J8osgb-wMdCYXoHJu5w3uV7nGM8DmZq4EYCvxTcaaD6d15YnS-MnZlh1dVSN~RyIS6Y24oGvIV0FZZpw1F39s_

"access denied"

Crap. OK, it's...

Pete Townshend of the Who on...
Sun Ra
The Heliocentric Worlds of Sun Ra, Vol. 1

One of the things I used to love about buying records was that thing where you can't get hold of stuff you want - like now, where people go round every dance shop in London, or every indie shop for some American import, until finally you find it and it's, like, "YES! I've got it!" Then that record becomes a part of your life. I used to get that with Sun Ra. I got really into that way-out avant-garde jazz, but you couldn't find his records anywhere. So, one day, I was in a jazz shop in Chicago and I said, "Have you got any Sun Ra?" The guy says, "Yeah, all his stuff." I said, "Give me everything." He comes back with 250 albums. Most of which I've still got, still in the shrinkwrap."

Pete sure loves stuff that you can't normally get a hold of doesn't he?

okay that joke took a while to register with me lol

Yeah, I'm sure there was a much less clumsy way to formulate that but I couldn't figure it out haha.

I didn't vote, but I would have chosen the band. I agree that some of their later albums were spotty, I don't understand why the cut-off for the band seems to be after the s/t. Stage Fright is all time for me, and though it obviously doesn't match its predecessor, it's by no means 'spotty'. Not a weak track on Stage Fright, imo.

Strawberry Wine, All La Glory, The Shape I'm In, for crissakes!

softspool otm but I have a lot more time for latter band than most people. I even love moondog matinee!

i think cahoots is their weakest proper album -- and even that has some pretty great stuff on it. just has some reallllly terrible tunes, too. "where do we go from here" is probably the worst band song ever.

I just listened to the Band. CCR is WAY better than this.

I didn't vote, but I would have chosen the band. I agree that some of their later albums were spotty, I don't understand why the cut-off for the band seems to be after the s/t. Stage Fright is all time for me, and though it obviously doesn't match its predecessor, it's by no means 'spotty'. Not a weak track on Stage Fright, imo.

― softspool

northern lights, southern cross is a pretty dope album overall as well imo. i think the one-two punch of MFBP and the s/t overshadows the slightly less-great work they did later, though stage fright is just barely less-great i think.

I'm listen to American Beauty for the first time and yeah this is cool. I like the drone they have going in parts, and the whole thing reminds me of Incredible String Band-style trippy folk music.

I think this must be the most mellow 'rock' album I've ever heard. It's nice! All three of these bands are definitely quintessential American w33d music.