Frank Ocean - Channel Orange (2012)

Sorry sentence first paragraph was meant to read:

"I think across the board understatedness is something that typically people only really like in the genres they are already invested in."

it's pretty easy to see its crossover appeal imo... dude is 'of the moment' as a figure, but it's basically a soul & funk album -- easy appeal for people that aren't r&b heads

booklet here appears to be misprinted; the page that has the previously-tumblrd thank-you note isn't in the booklet and exists as a smaller, separate insert (with the credits on the other side continuing form where they cut off in the booklet) -- is this a worldwide, on-purpose thing, or a drastic fuckup by local label or printer?

my digital version didnt come with the tumblr post so im guessing the former, if thats what you mean

lol @ MTV randomly nominating "swim good" for three VMAs

lol @ this guy writing a song called "swim good"

it's pretty easy to see its crossover appeal imo... dude is 'of the moment' as a figure, but it's basically a soul & funk album -- easy appeal for people that aren't r&b heads

― tauheed & cambria (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, August 15, 2012 5:03 PM (3 hours ago)

yeah, that's a good point. didn't occur to me when i was listing points of crossover appeal, but mentioned upthread that "crack rock" and "pilot jones" remind me of the burnt-out later sly stone stuff, music for which rock and indie audiences have already acquired a vocabulary (per dog latin).

earl and andre 3000 spots doesn't hurt either

yes, frank ocean needed a boost from massive star earl sweatshirt.

sly stone a major reference for indie kids, as opposed to r&b fans who mainly listen to ashanti

i'm just saying i got some nice sly tracks off this friend of a friend, and the only other music i know he likes is neko case and decembrvsts

every post in this thread is embarrassing including this one

you worry too much about things that don't matter

sly stone a major reference for indie kids, as opposed to r&b fans who mainly listen to ashanti

― ticagrelor rotini (k3vin k.), Thursday, 16 August 2012 4:05 AM (40 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah it's not frank ocean's crossover per se that seems odd but on a strict musical level this album doesn't code as particularly indie to me, and certainly much less than Nostalgia Ultra.

I don't want to play the "if this why not that" game but if i'm wrong about the above then it'd be nice for raphael saadiq to start getting some proper indie shine.

A coworker of mine who loves this said it was his favourite R&B album since 'The Miseducation of Lauren Hill' which kinda made sense to me even though obv I don't share his opinion.

Saadiq's been mostly boring for a while.

I'm all for anyone digging into the Tonyies catalog or his first couple solo efforts tho.

Maybe Soul Jazz should do a compilation.

eww

haha

saadiq's album last year was only ok not great but "good man" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything ocean has ever made

yeah that was kind of what I was thinking.

"Good Man" was aight, I guess. Didn't really stick with me at all. Probably the best song he's made in years, but hardly a shadow on peak Saadiq.

smh at lex tho

ocean's appeal has another few pertinent layers before you get to the basic fact of soul/funk and link it to offputtingly on-the-nose saadiq retro

at that kind of face value you might as well tell 'pyramids' fans to check for the bangles

this is like a generation down the line for whom the stevie wonderesque sound is almost a kind of flimsy utopia in itself, affluence, luxury, seductive and empty beverly hills paradises ('sweet life') where all cannot be as it seems maaan. this is that n.e.r.d thing of being a dreamy sk8r stoner dork sat in their room flicking through the channels, mediated referential realities ("my tv ain't in hd thats too real") tornados, fighter jets, africa, monks, diamonds, drug addiction like a game show

i think that's a really good summation of what's off-putting about the general aesthetic to me

there's a weird fetishisation of luxury in order to say it's empty at first hand, a bit of a repulsive having one's cake and eating it vibe

yeah no doubt

"Good Man" was aight, I guess. Didn't really stick with me at all.

― The Reverend, Thursday, August 16, 2012 3:02 AM (54 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

cmon now

It's one of those songs I heard, went "this is good" and promptly forgot about.

i recommend a revisit, that almost made my top ten that year

xps I think it's important to remember all the Ladera Heights stuff is on the outside looking in even when it's in first person. Obv that's not his actual background.

whenever I think Saadiq bores me I replay the second half of Stone Rollin' and think ahhhh shit

Stone Rollin was on my top ten of last year. Only familiar with the Tonys biggest hits. Still need to go back to saadiq's other solo records--where to start?

instant vintage...

^^^^^^^>

yeah to be honest i have no use for saadiq after instant vintage, which is brilliant. channel orange > saadiq since instant vintage

here's a weird fetishisation of luxury in order to say it's empty at first hand, a bit of a repulsive having one's cake and eating it vibe

― lex pretend, Thursday, August 16, 2012 2:39 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i think it's more complicated than that. what i like about ocean is that he's pretty non-judgmental about his characters, sort of just presenting them dispassionately.

Exactly. He has reintroduced the role of the distanced observer-narrator to modern R&B. Even when the narrator's in the grip of passion, there's a certain distance or resignation involved, more often than not. Cf. Thinkin Bout You.

yes but you can't lump him in with the weeknd if you put it like that

I'm definitely not lumping him in with the Weeknd. Weeknd is the anti-Terius, always shameful about his involvement in debauchery, but caught up in desire nonetheless. Frank knows desire and loss intimately enough to describe it from a distance. He strikes me as wiser than the both of them. Perhaps even a bit too intelligent for his own good.

not sure what that means. like, too dispassionate?

Not too dispassionate, I think. He strikes me as very passionate, but wary? As in he's keeping his distance. Part of the joy of Terius is how he embraces everything, you know? That sort of thoughtless abandon. Frank analyzes everything and packs his metaphors carefully. But he may be missing out on a bit of fun, if you catch my drift.

i do. there isn't much libidinal abandon in frank ocean. suspect that reticence helps make him accessible to indie audiences.

Definitely. That's the sad part of Channel Orange's success. Indie audiences and critics embrace him because they recognize the aesthetic as one that it is easy to legitimize in a way that, say, Ciara's Ride is not. That's reason enough to resist the mainstream coronation of Frank as the "savior" of R&B. That being said, though, Frank's stoic R&B does feel like a breath of fresh air right now.

this all makes him sound like the r&b joni mitchell

I would not define Joni Mitchell as stoic though.

He could do worse.

oh he does do worse

lol

i don't think he's reintroduced any particular role to r&b - dispassionate character studies are plentiful surely? and from what i recall lots of channel orange involved ocean getting caught up in feelings so...

before she started to suck Ciara mastered a kind of detachment.

oh there's definitely more third person narrative on this album than any recent r&b album i can think of