Frank Ocean - Channel Orange (2012)

Crossover cos its getting tons of press.

"Amateurish R&B? Cool! Professional R&B is too much like R&B."

It's not really very amateurish tho? Seems like the crossover appeal comes mostly from his singer-songwriterish leanings.

and his Personal Story.

right

and the tons of press detailing both

that's kind of a chicken or the egg scenario tho

the music press was going nuts over dude well before his blog post thing, i think it's fair to say the album would've been a pretty big crossover without all that happening

crossover def but I'm not sure about pretty big though

All the album posters I see in the street here (that in itself is odd for an r&b album, if not a rap album) quote the pfork score and nothing else.

Quoth the Pfork
"8 or more!"

haha

All the album posters I see in the street here (that in itself is odd for an r&b album, if not a rap album) quote the pfork score and nothing else.

― Tim F, Wednesday, August 15, 2012 3:07 PM Bookmark

http://workawesome.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Head-in-Hands-e1298825206674.jpg

it was a savvy campaign in that it simultaneously hit signifiers that a) appealed to bloggers and critics b) are seen as currently fashionable and edgy in r&b and hip-hop (cf indie-as-aspiration, that sort of thing) and c) could sell itself as Not Like All That Other Terrible R&B to that crossover crowd - ie as the exception but not only that

otm but none of those are the strikes against the album you pretend they are

i'm not saying they're strikes, i'm saying that an album being a crossover isn't an indicator of quality either. there are enough strikes against FO musically to go with.

My point was about the marketing not the album itself. In a lot of ways it surprises me that people can maintain that perspective even after they've heard the album - it's much more muted in feel than you'd expect from the majority of the press treatment.

isn't the mutedness one of its selling points? understated and vaguely wistful and, well, just enervated, as per the indie aesthetic du jour

like when i criticised his voice so many people were like "oh i like its undemonstrative flatness, not like all those other r&b singers with their ability to sing and their large vocal ranges"

My AOTY.

― REV LION (The Reverend), Wednesday, August 15, 2012 1:30 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yep, mine too. Weirdly enough, the Twin Shadow album reminds me a lot of this, not sure why.

oh urgh twin shadow is much much more awful! FO is just boring, twim shadow had me giving serious side-eye to my speakers

i'm sure your speakers were suitably mortified

frank ocean has a number of points of crossover appeal w/ indie: lifts from rock bands, connections w/ odd future, occasional rock instrumentation, songs about idle & entitled suburban adolescence, chillwave sonics, an understated approach, themes involving nostalgia, self-doubt and irony. none of these things are marks against his music, nor do they condemn the indie audience that responds to them. intentional crossover artist crosses over. so what?

nor do they condemn the indie audience that responds to them

these people are already condemned

what the hell is twin shadow?

twin shadow: the official ilm thread started by max

isn't the mutedness one of its selling points? understated and vaguely wistful and, well, just enervated, as per the indie aesthetic du jour

Yeah maybe but it's not like the R&B that dyed in the wool indie types actually go for usually - I think across the board understatedness is something that typically people only really like in thie. Like, The Weeknd might be ennervated but it's also very "dramatic" even if not in terms of the actual vocals.

Ocean's mutedness on this album is an understatedness that feels internal to R&B.

like when i criticised his voice so many people were like "oh i like its undemonstrative flatness, not like all those other r&b singers with their ability to sing and their large vocal ranges"

This I get, it reminds me of how a lot of people used to talk about Kelis.

Actually when I think about it I would maybe say that this album crossing over strikes me as being rather like if Wanderland had crossed over (though please don't everyone decide it's necessary to point out the differences b/w these two albums - obv there are many).

Sorry sentence first paragraph was meant to read:

"I think across the board understatedness is something that typically people only really like in the genres they are already invested in."

it's pretty easy to see its crossover appeal imo... dude is 'of the moment' as a figure, but it's basically a soul & funk album -- easy appeal for people that aren't r&b heads

booklet here appears to be misprinted; the page that has the previously-tumblrd thank-you note isn't in the booklet and exists as a smaller, separate insert (with the credits on the other side continuing form where they cut off in the booklet) -- is this a worldwide, on-purpose thing, or a drastic fuckup by local label or printer?

my digital version didnt come with the tumblr post so im guessing the former, if thats what you mean

lol @ MTV randomly nominating "swim good" for three VMAs

lol @ this guy writing a song called "swim good"

it's pretty easy to see its crossover appeal imo... dude is 'of the moment' as a figure, but it's basically a soul & funk album -- easy appeal for people that aren't r&b heads

― tauheed & cambria (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, August 15, 2012 5:03 PM (3 hours ago)

yeah, that's a good point. didn't occur to me when i was listing points of crossover appeal, but mentioned upthread that "crack rock" and "pilot jones" remind me of the burnt-out later sly stone stuff, music for which rock and indie audiences have already acquired a vocabulary (per dog latin).

earl and andre 3000 spots doesn't hurt either

yes, frank ocean needed a boost from massive star earl sweatshirt.

sly stone a major reference for indie kids, as opposed to r&b fans who mainly listen to ashanti

i'm just saying i got some nice sly tracks off this friend of a friend, and the only other music i know he likes is neko case and decembrvsts

every post in this thread is embarrassing including this one

you worry too much about things that don't matter

sly stone a major reference for indie kids, as opposed to r&b fans who mainly listen to ashanti

― ticagrelor rotini (k3vin k.), Thursday, 16 August 2012 4:05 AM (40 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah it's not frank ocean's crossover per se that seems odd but on a strict musical level this album doesn't code as particularly indie to me, and certainly much less than Nostalgia Ultra.

I don't want to play the "if this why not that" game but if i'm wrong about the above then it'd be nice for raphael saadiq to start getting some proper indie shine.

A coworker of mine who loves this said it was his favourite R&B album since 'The Miseducation of Lauren Hill' which kinda made sense to me even though obv I don't share his opinion.

Saadiq's been mostly boring for a while.

I'm all for anyone digging into the Tonyies catalog or his first couple solo efforts tho.

Maybe Soul Jazz should do a compilation.

eww

haha

saadiq's album last year was only ok not great but "good man" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything ocean has ever made

yeah that was kind of what I was thinking.

"Good Man" was aight, I guess. Didn't really stick with me at all. Probably the best song he's made in years, but hardly a shadow on peak Saadiq.

smh at lex tho

ocean's appeal has another few pertinent layers before you get to the basic fact of soul/funk and link it to offputtingly on-the-nose saadiq retro

at that kind of face value you might as well tell 'pyramids' fans to check for the bangles

this is like a generation down the line for whom the stevie wonderesque sound is almost a kind of flimsy utopia in itself, affluence, luxury, seductive and empty beverly hills paradises ('sweet life') where all cannot be as it seems maaan. this is that n.e.r.d thing of being a dreamy sk8r stoner dork sat in their room flicking through the channels, mediated referential realities ("my tv ain't in hd thats too real") tornados, fighter jets, africa, monks, diamonds, drug addiction like a game show

i think that's a really good summation of what's off-putting about the general aesthetic to me

there's a weird fetishisation of luxury in order to say it's empty at first hand, a bit of a repulsive having one's cake and eating it vibe