Nominations for an 80s Albums That Rock Poll(inc indie/Alt,punk,metal,heavy/glam etc) CLOSES SUNDAY NIGHT 11:59 p.m. UK

Dream Syndicate and Thin White Rope are also interesting inclusions. They're no more rock than plenty of rock that "harbors pop sensibilities," but if you're explicit about pop sensibilities, then you're out. If you're not as explicit about it, like the Pixies, then you're in.

― timellison, Saturday, August 11, 2012 11:22 AM (12 minutes ago)

yeah, but they're sort of essentialist rock, like rock music stripped of everything but that. blues based, with a clear debt both to early rock and punk, especially television. not hard rock, exactly (though live thin white rope definitely went that way), but making few concessions to pop.

i considered nominated both, but decided against it, because my conception of what "rocks" cleaves pretty close to the chuck berry/jerry lee lewis --> star club beatles/sonics --> ramones/dolls --> motorhead/maiden --> white stripes/QOTSA lineage.

uh, "i considered nominating both..."

it can be removed if enough onject

― Algerian Goalkeeper, Saturday, August 11, 2012 11:38 AM (10 minutes ago)

i don't object to the inclusion of this heat. just saying they're a weird outlier here. and everywhere.

let's try these

Snakefinger - Greener Postures
Zoogz Rift - Amputees in Limbo
Robert Fripp - The League of Gentlemen

yeah, but they're sort of essentialist rock, like rock music stripped of everything but that. blues based, with a clear debt both to early rock and punk, especially television. not hard rock, exactly (though live thin white rope definitely went that way), but making few concessions to pop.

If I "strip rock music of everything but that," I also get Buddy Holly and Fats Domino and the Everly Brothers. And doo wop.

IMO definitely borderline

^^^

sounds like something Nixon would say.

If I "strip rock music of everything but that," I also get Buddy Holly and Fats Domino and the Everly Brothers. And doo wop.

true, but i was thinking specifically about what "rock music" had become by the mid 80s in the american rock-fan culture from which both bands arose. it wasn't rock and roll (that's the "early rock" i mentioned), and it wasn't punk, but it could easily include both. pop appeal was certainly allowed, but it was looked somewhat askance at, especially if the music in question didn't actually rock pretty damn hard.

the everly brothers wouldn't be in the venn circle simply because they didn't rock hard enough, historical context be damned. same goes for a lot of doo-wop. 70s heaviness and punk had changed rock, both sonically and conceptually, by the time these bands came up.

i was thinking specifically about what "rock music" had become by the mid 80s in the american rock-fan culture from which both bands arose. it wasn't rock and roll (that's the "early rock" i mentioned), and it wasn't punk, but it could easily include both. pop appeal was certainly allowed, but it was looked somewhat askance at

Yeah, I'd imagine that for every example of that (like Carducci maybe), there's a counter-example (like his local contemporary D. Boon putting out a single by the Salvation Army).

Or consider "Sea and Sky" from the second SWA record, if you've ever heard that. Zoogz Rift did Freddie and the Dreamers and Elvis Costello covers.

Here's another example - how are Slovenly more "essentialist rock" than the Feelies?

i dont know slovenly. Is that an objection to them being in?

Here's another example - how are Slovenly more "essentialist rock" than the Feelies?

not sure where that comes from, but slovenly were a bit heavier and rougher, and they made fewer concessions to pop. they're both comfortably in the circle, imo, especially in their early days.

fewer concessions to unrocking pop, i mean

Can you listen to the guitar solo that comes in at 1:51 on "Loveless Love" from Crazy Rhythms and really assert that Slovenly were heavier and rougher?

(I mean, I only ever had one Slovenly record so I don't know for sure, but...)

"sea and sky" is great, and seems much purer in its rockness than most stuff by either slovenly or the feelies. it's got pop hooks, but kicks hard, seems to descend from thin lizzy.

lol, the hair-splitting specificity of these comparisons. had to go listen to "loveless love". sure, that solo rocks, no argument. especially love the super simple bump-ba-bump drumming under it. but like i said, i'd put slovenly (though i don't know them well), the feelies, thin white rope, early REM, the dream syndicate, the embarrassment and a bunch of others all in the same basket. children of the VU, modern lovers, the voidoids and television.

The thing is that solo is more ferocious than anything by Television or the Dream Syndicate but the Feelies are out because they didn't wear the right clothes.

i guess with respect to algerian's goalposts, that group of bands tends strongly toward collegiate "indiepop". like i said, the main difference is that the dream syndicate and thin white rope don't push the pop aspects very hard, especially in comparison to the feelies and REM. TDS were given to stretching out on a jam, TWR to fairly harsh and heavy sounds. probably won't be voting for either in this poll, though thin white rope were one of my favorite bands of their era. the thin white rope album i would vote for, the one that got away, came out in '93, boo.

the Feelies are out because they didn't wear the right clothes.

i think it's more that their sound was generally fairly soft and light, overall, despite its underlying drive and tension. quality of tone and aggression are important here, i think.

and by the time they get 3:15 into "halloween", the dream syndicate are definitely holding their own with that feelies solo, and then some.

the dream syndicate - halloween

Oh, I disagree completely. They're holding their own with noise but not with energy.

like i said, the main difference is that the dream syndicate and thin white rope don't push the pop aspects very hard, especially in comparison to the feelies and REM.

I get it with R.E.M. (though I don't see why it matters), but I don't with the Feelies. It's like you can sound like the Velvet Underground but you can't be too energetic about it.

well, that tightly wound tension was the feelies' thing, but precoda's completely dialed in during that moment, imo. he's not driving the beat along, just spitting sparks off the rail, and the energy level is impressively high for such a slow & moody song.

that was xp

i'm with you on the feelies fwiw. crazy rhythms deserves a shot.

forgot that it had been bared, tbh

lol, barred

anyway, the best argument for the feelies isn't the "loveless love" solo, i don't think, but rather the whole of "i wanna sleep in your arms". that's the only point where they toughen up their sound to the level of the modern lovers and the more aggressive VU tracks, rock it all the way through. i'd vote for it in the tracks poll.

i mean, the velvet underground had lots of upbeat jangly pop tunes, but they also had stuff like "venus in furs" and "sister ray". noise, heaviness and aggression. the feelies didn't really go there.

Ragin', Full On is another curiosity with regard to this discussion. Melodicism OK but it has to veer more toward art song than pop in that case.

cant you actually just nominate some stuff that does meet the criteria? lol

you have to admit that the criteria are a bit vague and/or arbitrarily applied, AG

though in firehose's defense

chemical wire

sure, but it doesnt stop you nominating lots more things. Remember you will have up to 50 to choose on your ballot. So get nominating everybody so you cannot complain anything is left out.

i'm tired of nominating though. it requires too much thought. i'd rather cut to the complaining part.

You can do it, i dont want anyone complaining albums they want to vote for have been left out

some stuff that barely got nominations: synth punk, power pop, RIO/zeuhl, neo-psych/garage, non-anglophile rock... just saying

would be very surprised if there's not a power pop poll in the future

omg you <know something> don't you

no.

but a couple of us have had an idea of asking someone to run it, but i don't know if they have been asked yet or not.

poll cru

no poll cru there's no poll crut either

we need nominations cru (or crut)

do the Mekons fit the criteria?

yes

Alright then

Mekons - Fear and Whiskey
The Clean - Boodle Boodle Boodle
Tall Dwarfs - Hello Cruel World

Results of the previous 80s poll

Will infact post the old results here since JF wanted no more posts over there
100. Robyn Hitchcock - I Often Dream of Trains [1984] (75 points, 5 votes)
98. (tie) Scraping Foetus off the Wheel - Hole [1984] (76 points, 5 votes)
98. (tie) Spacemen 3 - The Perfect Prescription [1987] (76 points, 5 votes)
97. Big Black - Atomizer [1986] (77 points, 8 votes)
96. Associates - Sulk [1982] (79 points, 6 votes)
95. Jane's Addiction - Nothing's Shocking [1988] (79 points, 7 votes)
94. Def Leppard - Pyromania [1983] (80 points, 6 votes, 1 first place vote)
93. Thomas Dolby - The Golden Age of Wireless [1982] (80 points, 7 votes, 1 first place vote)
92. Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark - Dazzle Ships [1983] (80 points, 9 votes)
91. Run-D.M.C. - Raising Hell [1986] (80 points, 10 votes)
90. Meat Puppets - Meat Puppets II [1984] (81 points, 9 votes)
89. Prince and the Revolution - Parade [1986] (83 points, 10 votes)
88. Bruce Springsteen - Tunnel of Love [1987] (86 points, 7 votes)
87. Pet Shop Boys - Actually [1987] (86 points, 8 votes)
86. Pet Shop Boys - Please [1986] (87 points, 8 votes)
84. (tie) Nine Inch Nails - Pretty Hate Machine [1989] (87 points, 8 votes, 1 first place vote)
84. (tie) Talking Heads - Speaking in Tongues [1983] (87 points, 8 votes, 1 first place vote)
83. David Bowie - Scary Monsters [1980] (89 points, 6 votes, 1 first place vote)
82. Scraping Foetus off the Wheel - Nail [1985] (91 points, 5 votes, 1 first place vote)
81. The Beat (aka The English Beat) - I Just Can't Stop It [1980] (91 points, 13 votes)
80. Various - The Indestructible Beat of Soweto [1985] (93 points, 6 votes, 1 first place vote)
79. The The - Soul Mining [1983] (93 points, 7 votes, 1 first place vote)
78. The Pogues - Rum, Sodomy & the Lash [1985] (93 points, 16 votes)
77. Meat Puppets - Up on the Sun [1985] (94 points, 8 votes)
76. U2 - The Joshua Tree [1987] (95 points, 7 votes, 1 first place vote)
75. Cyndi Lauper - She's So Unusual [1983] (95 points, 9 votes)
74. Galaxie 500 - On Fire [1989] (96 points, 10 votes)
73. X - Wild Gift [1981] (97 points, 9 votes)
72. The Chills - Kaleidoscope World [1986] (98 points, 7 votes, 1 first place vote)
71. Roxy Music - Avalon [1982] (99 points, 10 votes)
70. Laurie Anderson - Big Science [1982] (99 points, 11 votes)
69. Scritti Politti - Cupid & Psyche 85 [1985] (100 points, 7 votes)
68. New Order - Power, Corruption & Lies [1983] (100 points, 16 votes)
67. Violent Femmes - Violent Femmes [1983] (101 points, 12 votes)
66. Prefab Sprout - Steve McQueen [1985] (104 points, 10 votes, 1 first place vote)
65. Donald Fagen - The Nightfly [1982] (105 points, 8 votes, 1 first place vote)
63. (tie) Tom Waits - Rain Dogs [1985] (106 points, 12 votes)
63. (tie) Cocteau Twins - Treasure [1984] (106 points, 12 votes)
62. Grace Jones - Nightclubbing [1981] (106 points, 12 votes, 1 first place vote)
61. Arthur Russell - World of Echo [1986] (108 points, 11 votes, 1 first place vote)
60. Eric B. & Rakim - Paid In Full [1987] (111 points, 8 votes, 1 first place vote)
59. Mekons - Fear and Whiskey [1985] (111 points, 8 votes, 2 first place votes)
58. The Cure - Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me [1987] (112 points, 7 votes, 2 first place votes)
57. Arvo Pärt - Tabula Rasa [1984] (112 points, 9 votes, 1 first place vote)
56. R.E.M. - Lifes Rich Pageant [1986] (112 points, 12 votes)
55. Dinosaur Jr. - You're Living All Over Me [1987] (115 points, 13 votes)
54. Bruce Springsteen - Born in the U.S.A. [1984] (118 points, 14 votes)
53. Bruce Springsteen - Nebraska [1982] (120 points, 14 votes)
52. Brian Eno / David Byrne - My Life in the Bush of Ghosts [1981] (120 points, 17 votes)
51. Leonard Cohen - I'm Your Man [1988] (121 points, 11 votes)
50. The Feelies - Crazy Rhythms [1980] (123 points, 13 votes)
49. The Go-Betweens - 16 Lovers Lane [1988] (125 points, 9 votes, 1 first place vote)
48. XTC - Skylarking [1986] (127 points, 16 votes)
47. Steely Dan - Gaucho [1980] (128 points, 9 votes)
46. R.E.M. - Reckoning [1984] (131 points, 14 votes)
45. Captain Beefheart and the Magic Band - Doc at the Radar Station [1980] (133 points, 11 votes)
44. The Fall - This Nation's Saving Grace [1985] (136 points, 13 votes)
43. Sonic Youth - EVOL [1986] (143 points, 12 votes, 1 first place vote)
42. Hüsker Dü - New Day Rising [1985] (146 points, 14 votes)
41. The Cure - Pornography [1982] (148 points, 9 votes)
40. Dexy’s Midnight Runners - Searching for the Young Soul Rebels [1980] (148 points, 11 votes, 1 first place vote)
39. Manuel Göttsching - E2-E4 [1984] (154 points, 12 votes, 2 first place votes)
38. New Order - Substance [1987] (156 points, 16 votes)
37. De La Soul - 3 Feet High and Rising [1989] (164 points, 23 votes)
36. The Fall - Hex Enduction Hour [1982] (166 points, 14 votes, 1 first place vote)
35. ABC - The Lexicon of Love [1982] (173 points, 11 votes, 1 first place vote)
34. The Smiths - Hatful of Hollow [1984] (173 points, 16 votes)
33. The Smiths - Louder Than Bombs [1987] (174 points, 20 votes)
32. Prince - 1999 [1982] (191 points, 17 votes, 1 first place vote)
31. Sonic Youth - Sister [1987] (199 points, 21 votes, 1 first place vote)
30. Hüsker Dü - Zen Arcade [1984] (200 points, 13 votes)
29. Young Marble Giants - Colossal Youth [1980] (200 points, 17 votes, 1 first place vote)
28. The Stone Roses - The Stone Roses [1989] (201 points, 15 votes, 2 first place votes)
27. Guns N' Roses - Appetite for Destruction [1987] (201 points, 18 votes)
26. Prince - Dirty Mind [1980] (210 points, 14 votes, 1 first place vote)
25. The Clash - Sandinista! [1980] (211 points, 11 votes, 3 first place votes)
24. The Cure - Disintegration [1989] (218 points, 19 votes, 1 first place vote)
23. The Human League - Dare [1981] (219 points, 17 votes, 2 first place votes)
22. My Bloody Valentine - Isn't Anything [1988] (229 points, 19 votes, 2 first place votes)
21. Paul Simon - Graceland [1986] (237 points, 17 votes, 1 first place vote)
20. The Jesus and Mary Chain - Psychocandy [1985] (243 points, 23 votes, 1 first place vote)
19. The Replacements - Let It Be [1984] (252 points, 18 votes, 1 first place vote)
18. Joy Division - Closer [1980] (255 points, 24 votes)
17. Kate Bush - The Dreaming [1982] (269 points, 13 votes, 3 first place votes)
16. New Order - Technique [1989] (273 points, 15 votes, 2 first place votes)
15. Pixies - Surfer Rosa [1988] (273 points, 21 votes, 1 first place vote)
14. Talk Talk - Spirit of Eden [1988] (274 points, 18 votes, 2 first place votes)
13. Beastie Boys - Paul's Boutique [1989] (291 points, 25 votes, 1 first place vote)
12. Minutemen - Double Nickels on the Dime [1984] (300 points, 15 votes, 3 first place votes)
11. The Smiths - The Queen is Dead [1986] (307 points, 26 votes, 1 first place vote)
10. Pixies – Doolittle [1989] (323 points, 31 votes)
9. Michael Jackson - Thriller [1982] (331 points, 35 votes)
8. Kraftwerk - Computer World [1981] (338 points, 29 votes)
7. Sonic Youth - Daydream Nation [1988] (356 points, 28 votes, 3 first place votes)
6. R.E.M. - Murmur [1983] (359 points, 30 votes, 2 first place votes)
5. Prince - Sign “O” the Times [1987] (381 points, 28 votes, 2 first place votes)
4. Kate Bush - Hounds of Love [1985] (422 points, 35 votes, 2 first place votes)
3. Prince and the Revolution - Purple Rain [1984] (423 points, 35 votes, 2 first place votes)
2. Public Enemy - It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back [1988] (478 points, 39 votes, 2 first place votes)
1. Talking Heads - Remain in Light [1980] (568 points, 37 votes, 4 first place votes)

The 2 polls will be quite different then (doubt we will get as many ballots but who knows!)

JF was it you who ran the alternate 70s poll ? was it just albums from the previous 70s poll you didn't allow or was it any band who had an album in the top 100 you banned?

It was only the 100 albums that placed in the original 70s poll.