I still think Atomic is more of a New Jersey than Rattle & Hum, but the latter at least has the whiff of embarrassment. Eminem never said sorry about anything until Relapse.
― da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:07 (eleven years ago) link
he said sorry to his mama in "Cleanin' Out My Closet."
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:07 (eleven years ago) link
i don't think he really meant it though
― da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:08 (eleven years ago) link
did not signal a career declineThis is the main reason that Rattle & Hum feels a slightly awkward fit to me - the fact that they followed it up very successfully with Achtung Baby (albeit with quite a bit of a change in sound and image). It def fits in terms of an album that sold well and was a Big Deal at the time but is largely forgotten/ignored now though.
― record-collection rave (Mr Andy M), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:08 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, I think I've generally been more interested in the "ultimately feels a bit hollow" than the "signals a career decline" aspect of the New Jersey - just how much an album's narrative position can reverse as a result of larger things (shift in taste, shift in fanbase, band's metanarrative, radio format stuff, and yeah, subsequent career decline). But that's me trying to rewrite the definition so maybe Eminem Show doesn't count really.
― Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:09 (eleven years ago) link
If the Eminem Show doesn't count then Encore definitely does.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:10 (eleven years ago) link
xpost to myself in that way it's perhaps comparable to The Great Escape by Blur - albums that despite performing well led to a realisation that the 'more of what you love' approach had run its course and that there was a need to go back to the drawing board for the next record.Be Here Now by Oasis is a bona-fide, gold-standard New Jersey though.
― record-collection rave (Mr Andy M), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:12 (eleven years ago) link
I think Encore might actually be closer to Eminem's Fairweather Johnson.
― Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:12 (eleven years ago) link
Don De Lillo's New Jersey = Underworld.
OTM!
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:12 (eleven years ago) link
more on Encore - Like, I was going to just say "the hell, everyone hated that album and it flopped totally" but checking Wiki, nope, damn thing did 5x platinum in the US... but the singles were frighteningly unsuccessful for a top-tier artist. Chart peaks: Just Lose It (#6), Encore (#25), Like Toy Soldiers (#34), Mockingbird (#11), Ass Like That (#60).
― Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:14 (eleven years ago) link
Like, "Mockingbird" aside (side note, I don't remember this song at all), that's the story of an album that had strong momentum going in, enough to push a weak first single into the top ten for a second, and then the wheels came off.
― Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:16 (eleven years ago) link
yeah Encore should be in there imo
― everyone who pretended to like me is goon (some dude), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:16 (eleven years ago) link
i mean has an album ever sold so much with the artist telegraphing "i don't like doing this anymore and i'm hoping you stop making me" so clearly?
― everyone who pretended to like me is goon (some dude), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:17 (eleven years ago) link
They're horrible singles but no more so than Adrenalize, and bigger (three went Gold!). However, when the follow-up came around the bloom was definitely off the rose. He's pushed 3x platinum out of Recovery and will always be Rap's Elvis right to Vegas, but he definitely lost some luster after Encore. I'm going to include that as a sop to the Shady-haters.
Be Here Now would be a New Jersey in the UK, but in the US it only went platinum. Definitely a fairweather johnson here.
― da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:17 (eleven years ago) link
dangit, i was trying to push Encore as Fairweather Johnson, oops
Eminem's arc has a kink in it because of the 4-5 year "retirement"; granted acts often go that long between albums anyway, but Relapse didn't really feel like "the followup to Encore," it was the comeback album....with Recovery being the actual comeback album where suddenly he's a huge-selling name again.
― Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:20 (eleven years ago) link
the release of the "Mosh" video just before the 2004 election felt like an event (stupid as that may seem in retrospect)
― Euler, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:20 (eleven years ago) link
comeback album or not, Relapse did really badly and the fact that Encore was an ass platter probably didn't help
― da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:22 (eleven years ago) link
I don't think No Need To Argue is a New Jersey. The album was a hit in its own right, not because it was riding on it's predecessor's success. And "Zombie" is ten times better remembered than "Linger".
― LeRooLeRoo, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:22 (eleven years ago) link
not on ilx!
― da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:23 (eleven years ago) link
I thought Zombie was remembered on ILX as the high-water mark of horrible music.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:24 (eleven years ago) link
I was debating No Need To Argue - it may be the only album listed that did better than the previous one - but people really do hate it here and the follow-up was a yeargh drop. If everyone loves it they can vote for it as the Best New Jersey and shame "Zombie"-phobes.
― da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:26 (eleven years ago) link
Things I didn't forsee myself doing today - searching 'Eminem discography' on wikipedia.
― record-collection rave (Mr Andy M), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:27 (eleven years ago) link
But where Rattle & Hum and Be Here Now fail the test is that they were exposed as steaming piles almost immediately. A true New Jersey keeps going, like Wile E. Coyote off his cliff, until the collective realisation much later.
― Ismael Klata, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:29 (eleven years ago) link
― Euler, Thursday, August 9, 2012 11:20 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark
lol 52 professional critics were so desperate for a political moment in pop music that they put "Mosh" on their Pazz & Jop ballots
― everyone who pretended to like me is goon (some dude), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:30 (eleven years ago) link
But where Rattle & Hum and Be Here Now fail the test is that they were exposed as steaming piles almost immediately. A true New Jersey keeps going, like Wile E. Coyote off his cliff, until the collective realisation much later.Yeah this is actually a fair point. My memory may be faulty but with Be Here Now I don't even remember the singles getting much radio play with the exception of Stand By Me (they still charted fairly well though).
― record-collection rave (Mr Andy M), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:32 (eleven years ago) link
it's been mentioned upthread but there was a pretty sharp divide with Be Here Now being initially pretty successful in the UK but not so much in the US. although i did see the goddamn "All Around The World" video on MTV quite a lot.
― everyone who pretended to like me is goon (some dude), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:35 (eleven years ago) link
Lol All Around The World was such a steaming pile, totally fits that hollow, bloated vibe we've been discussing here.
― record-collection rave (Mr Andy M), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:36 (eleven years ago) link
wasn't it used in a commercial a few years ago?
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:37 (eleven years ago) link
ok so actually does anyone mind if I take out No Need To Argue? I think my judgement may have been clouded by the anti-"Zombie" bile on here, it's not like Cranberries fans per se have obvious beef with it, could definitely be argued To The Faithfully Departed (which still sold 2x platinum) was their Fairweather Johnson.
― da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:38 (eleven years ago) link
In the US, I feel like there was maybe a two-month period where you would hear "D'ya Know What I Mean" and "Don't Go Away" in not-very-heavy rotation, and then they just disappeared. I heard "Don't Go Away" at the grocery store earlier this year and was kind of floored like, how did that make the playlist?
A Be Here Now is probably its own shorthand already, right? For a massively anticipated album that just disappoints everyone from the word go, incredibly negative critical consensus, sense that success has gone to the band's heads. Fairweather Johnsons just miss the moment and fade into the night, Be Here Nows suck and everybody knows it.
xpost i kinda like "all around the world" tho
― Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:39 (eleven years ago) link
keeping Rattle & Hum cuz some people obviously want it, plus fuck U2
― da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:40 (eleven years ago) link
BHN got spectacular reviews in England iirc
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:43 (eleven years ago) link
The level of hubris around Oasis was so great in 1997 that everyone who reviewed it convinced themselves it was a classic and then got very embarrassed when they'd calmed down a bit.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:45 (eleven years ago) link
Kind of interested to see how this poll rolls - - glad it's "Best" rather than "Worst," since the latter would just be piling up conventional wisdom on albums that we all know suck.
I'm also amazed, by the way, that we've gone this long without any die-hard Bon Jovi fans - - Googler or otherwise - - barging in to lecture us on how New Jersey is amazing and that true Jovvalos widely agree that it, not Slippery When Wet, is their real lasting achievement.
― Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:45 (eleven years ago) link
i will take "I'll Be There For You" over "Wanted Dead Or Alive"
― da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:46 (eleven years ago) link
waht is springsteens new jersey
The 5 CD live set, Live 1975-1985
― kornrulez6969, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:46 (eleven years ago) link
considered it but nah, followed by Tunnel Love which is still adored as hell.
― da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:47 (eleven years ago) link
also remarkable display of hubris or no, weird to say the mega-live set signaled a career decline for a guy who's never not filled those stadiums since
― da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:48 (eleven years ago) link
btw, just wanted to share this: the first Google search result for "what are bon jovi fans called" begins ominously: The Bon Jovi fan fiction community is small, with the few communities out there not being...
did not find out what bon jovi fans are called, leaning towards "Jovvalos" or perhaps "Bon Bronies"
― Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:49 (eleven years ago) link
Afterburner is probably the most archetypical of these because woah 5 million copies and you never hear any of those songs anymore, plus it's called AFTERBURNER for chrissakes
― everyone who pretended to like me is goon (some dude), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:50 (eleven years ago) link
If Human Touch & Lucky Town had been combined for a one album release I bet that would have pushed past 3x platinum and then be his jersey.
― da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:50 (eleven years ago) link
Would go for the Love Symbol album over D&P tbh. D&P was surely more of a mini-comeback after Graffiti Bridge and allowing for the novelty of Batman.
former too bloated, less memorable singles, certainly somewhat less successful units wise
You definitely hear My Name is Prince/SexyMF/Morning Papers etc less than D&P/Cream/Money Dont matter
― Master of Treacle, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:53 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, now I understand the question better, I vote that too.
― Mark G, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:54 (eleven years ago) link
you are certifiably insane
Would go for the Love Symbol album over D&P tbh
I was thinking this, but I really like Love Symbol and I DESPISE Diamonds and Pearls aside from "Gett Off"
― keeping things contextual (DJP), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:54 (eleven years ago) link
wait you didn't include my simple minds example. or didn't it sell enough? it must have sold millions.
― scott seward, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:55 (eleven years ago) link
I def prefer the NJ singles to Slippery When Wet's.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:55 (eleven years ago) link
Critical consensus round Be Here Now: iirc NME embarrassed themselves by giving What's The Story a (6), only to greet BHN with a euphoric (9).
There was definitely something in the air you could see coming, though - I had everything Oasis released up to the lead single (which I even liked), but was not for a second tempted to buy BHN.
― Ismael Klata, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:56 (eleven years ago) link
Does anyone have an argument against Jewel's Spirit as an NJ?
― Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:56 (eleven years ago) link
Can we clear up whether it's 'an NJ' or 'a NJ' first please?
― Ismael Klata, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:57 (eleven years ago) link
Scott, Simple Minds only went gold in the US. UK different story.
At the risk of getting stabbed through the internet, I could see an argument for Around The World In A Day in the sense that it went 3x platinum, which is better than any album since including Batman and Sign O' The Times (which as a 2CD only has to sell half as many copies to get the award). While he had plenty of hits after (and movies!), it seems like America was a little scared to buy a full-length on the level of Purple Rain after "America."
― da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:57 (eleven years ago) link