Why do people rag on Steely Dan's "Gaucho" so much?

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Who exactly are these so-called "people" referred to in the original post?

Well, this review from the AMG, for example (again, a not uncommon take that I've seen in reviews of this album):

"Aja was cool, relaxed, and controlled; it sounded deceptively easy. Its follow-up, Gaucho, while sonically similar, is its polar opposite: a precise and studied record, where all of the seams show. Gaucho essentially replicates the smooth jazz-pop of Aja, but with none of that record's dark, seductive romance or elegant aura. Instead, it's meticulous and exacting; each performance has been rehearsed so many times that it no longer has any emotional resonance. Furthermore, Walter Becker and Donald Fagen's songs are generally labored, only occasionally reaching their past heights, like on the suave "Babylon Sisters," "Time Out of Mind," and "Hey Nineteen." Still, those three songs are barely enough to make the remainder of the album's glossy, meandering fusion worthwhile."

How one could call this "meticulous, exacting, and rehearsed" in an especially negative way that does not apply to any of their other albums (again, especially Aja) is beyond me.

The aforementioned Christgau (Gaucho gets the lowest rating of all the Dan albums):

"With Walter Becker down to composer credits and very occasional bass, Donald Fagen progresses toward the intellectual cocktail rock he's sought for almost a decade--followed, of course, by a cadre of top-drawer El Lay studio hacks, the only musicians in the world smart enough to play his shit. Even the song with Aretha in it lends credence to rumors that the LP was originally entitled Countdown to Lethargy. After half a dozen hearings, the most arcane harmonies and unlikely hooks sound comforting, like one of those electromassagers that relax the muscles with a low-voltage shock. Craftsmen this obsessive don't want to rule the world--they just want to make sure it doesn't get them. B-"

1993 Rating of Steely Dan's albums (Rolling Stone, I believe?)
4 Can't Buy a Thrill
4.5 Countdown
5 Pretzel Logic (somewhere, my dad is smiling)
4 Katy Lied
3 Royal Scam
4 Aja
2.5 Gaucho

Before that, one of the early editions of the Rolling Stone Record Guide (IIRC, Gaucho got a

― Joe (Joe), Saturday, 11 June 2005 10:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Oops--to continue, I was going to say "IIRC, Gaucho got

― Joe (Joe), Saturday, 11 June 2005 10:52 (twenty-one years ago)

AARGH! "Gaucho got

― Joe (Joe), Saturday, 11 June 2005 10:53 (twenty-one years ago)

??? Sorry, don't know what's happening there...

― Joe (Joe), Saturday, 11 June 2005 10:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Gaucho is actually my favorite SD album, mostly because of "Third World Man," which as has been said already is amazing. Also: did anybody else notice that this phrase: "meticulous and exacting; each performance has been rehearsed so many times that it no longer has any emotional resonance" applies equally well to the films of Stanley Kubrick? I think they were working from a similar mindset. Each created their own world, which looked superficially like the real world, but darker.

― pdf (Phil Freeman), Saturday, 11 June 2005 11:52 (twenty-one years ago)

listened to Gaucho this spring for the first time since 1992, and now I would give it 3.5 or maybe even 4. in context, it sounded somewhat wan & rote around 1980 considering what else was going on. now it feels like SD's mature peak.

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Saturday, 11 June 2005 12:27 (twenty-one years ago)

lyrically, Gaucho's the darkest of them all: "Third World Man" is just horrifying, the title track is deeply troubling...they're all bleak

― Banana Nutrament (ghostface), Saturday, 11 June 2005 12:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Who thinks Aja is their best record? It represents the beginning of the end. I prefer rock Steely to smooth Steely; gimme "Countdown to Ecstasy" and "Katy Lied" over "Aja" and "Gaucho." And I'll take "The Nightfly" over "Gaucho."

That said, I can hear the sinister subtexts beneath the steely glint of the soporific music. For sure.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Saturday, 11 June 2005 13:10 (twenty-one years ago)

x-post I like "Gaucho" more than I like "Avalon," and don't listen to either very much in the scheme of things. I'm a big "Royal Scam" fan myself.

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Saturday, 11 June 2005 13:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I do think Aja is the masterpiece - lyrically so focused, and having a whole-cloth feel to it that I don't get from the pre-Aja ones. That said, I think my favorite is Countdown to Ecstasy, Aja's raucous twin: belligerent where Aja's cunning, openly brutal where Aja's covert. I know: "my favorite" vs. "the best" is a somewhat spurious distinction. But Aja does seem to me the most complete album, anyhow.

― Banana Nutrament (ghostface), Saturday, 11 June 2005 13:50 (twenty-one years ago)

the kubrick comment is very interesting. i immediately thought of eyes wide shut which in my opinion is the pinnacle of "superficially like the real world, but darker." i am still too much of a steely dan newbie to notice the similarities to kubrick beyond the superficial. ha. i always knew steely dan from growing up and going to parties of my mother's friends where their stuff was played constantly, but i never really connected with them until i started reading the copious ilm threads and thinking that i should really check them out again. over the past year or so i have slowly been picking up a random album of theirs when i go music shopping. haven't bought a dud yet...the one i listen to most lately is countdown to ecstasy. i don't have gaucho. the arrangement/production of their songs just kills me.

― tricky (disco stu), Saturday, 11 June 2005 13:53 (twenty-one years ago)

also, ilm threads on steely dan are almost always good.

― tricky (disco stu), Saturday, 11 June 2005 13:54 (twenty-one years ago)

The Kubrick comparisons are indeed apt. Just like I fall asleep during Kubrick's post-"Dr Strangelove" films, my attention starts to wander halfway thru Aja's title track.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Saturday, 11 June 2005 13:58 (twenty-one years ago)

how can music "look like the real world"? this is a real question.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Saturday, 11 June 2005 14:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I consider "Nightfly" better than anything Steely Dan did. That is where Fagen definitely managed to get close to his perfect pop vision.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Saturday, 11 June 2005 20:54 (twenty-one years ago)

People rag on Gaucho because a shitty, soulless band made it.

(There had to be some dissent here...)

― Deric W. Haircare (Deric W. Haircare), Saturday, 11 June 2005 22:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Geir's provided the best example of dissent. Besides, I rather love Steely Dan for their soulessness; it's what they wrote about and to whcih they eventually yielded.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Saturday, 11 June 2005 22:05 (twenty-one years ago)

interesting nad OTM on the david lynch (which i somehow missed earlier) comparison by Geir. i don't feel so much the kubrick thing - but don't know his stuff nearly as well

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Saturday, 11 June 2005 22:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Interesting. I've always heard Gaucho as the final installment of the change that began with the The Royal Scam -- kind of Steely Dan Mach II. Where Katy Lied sounds like a bow from the original, brighter, more collegiate Dan, using that famous knowing cynicism of theirs to flesh out devious character sketches, Royal Scam was where that cynicism replaced their inspiration -- tracks like "Green Earrings" and "The Fez", with their clavinets and Larry Carlton guitar solos, always were imbued with this seedy, overexposed 1970's soft-core-white-linen-porno-shot-in-Spain feel. True, you were never going to get a "Your Gold Teeth II" from these guys, but in a lot of ways, this is their most exciting record for me.

By contrast, I've never connected as much with Aja for some reason -- possibly because the great Roger Nichols didn't engineer it (and you can tell) or maybe because they continue down the Royal Scam road but try to humanize it with songs like "Deacon Blues". Either way it doesn't really work -- by this point, they're just too hardened and SoCal'd out to pull it off.

Gaucho is just sort of the culmination of what started with Scam -- the soundtrack to hitting on the chick who works at the bank at the local Ramada bar. Yes, all the love has gone out of it -- every character's a total piece of shit, and relationships are all transactions of some kind. Yet it's also perfect in its way -- the singles are career highlights, sure. But at its core are "The Glamour Profession" and "Gaucho", with their soaring Tom Scott saxes and lyricons, brittle guitar parts and more than a touch of Broadway in the vocals and song construction. And then it all ends, yeah, on "Third World Man", which is just disturbing, slow and vague. It's hard to feel "satisfied" by it all, but an appropriate note to go out on for sure.

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Sunday, 12 June 2005 04:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Is there a decent book about Steely Dan in print right now? They're one of my favorite bands but I know next to nothing about them.

― retort pouch (retort pouch), Sunday, 12 June 2005 04:50 (twenty-one years ago)

interesting nad OTM on the david lynch (which i somehow missed earlier) comparison by Geir. i don't feel so much the kubrick thing - but don't know his stuff nearly as well

gahhhhh

― Gear! (can Jung shill it, Mu?) (Gear!), Sunday, 12 June 2005 04:58 (twenty-one years ago)

What is the meaning of "Third World Man" (i.e., why is it disturbing)?

― Joe (Joe), Sunday, 12 June 2005 12:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Third World Man is about a survivalist guy who creates some disturbance in his neighborhood, I think

― Banana Nutrament (ghostface), Sunday, 12 June 2005 12:40 (twenty-one years ago)

(and it's disturbing because the mood of the song emphasises what it's like to both be that guy & to be on the receiving end of his blow-up)

― Banana Nutrament (ghostface), Sunday, 12 June 2005 12:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I like the Kubrick comparison even though I like SD much much more than I like Kubrick. But what I don't like about Kubrick is closely related to what I don't like about Aja and The Nightfly . I like Gaucho much more than either of these, although not as much as some of the earlier albums.

― frankiemachine, Sunday, 12 June 2005 13:22 (twenty-one years ago)

sorry Gear.

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Sunday, 12 June 2005 19:40 (twenty-one years ago)

I think "Gaucho" is the weakest of the original albums, I can't seem to work up much enthusiasm one way or the other about their recent stuff. But for a perfect album that is a bit boring, it beats anything else in that vein I could name, certainly better than Joni Mitchell's similar jazz crap--although I would've liked to have heard Pastorius on some Steely Dan, he makes some of that Joni stuff listenable. "Off Night Back Street," not much of a song but a cool record. I really think the same about "Gaucho," I dunno about the songs, but it's a good-sounding record and I think it pleased them to make something like that. Anyway, I think the best thing they did since their second album is "Josie."

― edd s hurt (ddduncan), Sunday, 12 June 2005 20:03 (twenty-one years ago)

THIRD WORLD MAN

Johnny's playroom
Is a bunker filled with sand
He's become a third world man

Smoky Sunday
He's been mobilized since dawn
Now he's crouching on the lawn
He's a third world man

Soon you'll throw down your disguise
We'll see behind those bright eyes
By and by
When the sidewalks are safe
For the little guy

I saw the fireworks
I believed that I was dreaming
Till the neighbors came out screaming
He's a third world man

Soon you'll throw down your disguise
We'll see behind those bright eyes
By and by
When the sidewalks are safe
For the little guys

When he's crying out
I just sing that Ghana Rondo
E l'era del terzo mondo
He's a third world man

― pdf (Phil Freeman), Sunday, 12 June 2005 20:17 (twenty-one years ago)

"But a perfect album that is a bit boring, it beats anything else in that vein I could name"

OTMFM - about 'Aja,' that is.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Sunday, 12 June 2005 21:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Given all the criticism this record has taken, this might be a good place to note that Two Against Nature is tuneless shit.

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 13:13 (twenty-one years ago)

You should have jumped on the "Back To The Egg" thread, Matthew!

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 13:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Your wish is...

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 13:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree with the above posters re: Gaucho being the weakest of the original albums. And it does sound like they are worn-out and just plain sick of the process of making records.

Gaucho was the record where Fagen and sound engineer Roger Nichols wrestled endlessly with the drum machine that Nichols had developed. The strain between Fagen and Becker was starting to show, as well.

Despite all that, Gaucho has Babylon Sisters, one of the most harmonically advanced pop songs I can think of. And it gets stuck in your head! Must hear now...

― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 13:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm with Al in that it's probably my least favorite of the original seven. But the singles are among their best and the title track is my current favorite SD song.

― Will(iam), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 16:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Gaucho: better than Royal Scam & Pretzel Logic any day

there, I said it

― Banana Nutrament (ghostface), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 16:19 (twenty-one years ago)

: o

― Gear! (can Jung shill it, Mu?) (Gear!), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 16:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, but what about Two Against Fucking Nature, people!?!?

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 16:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't mind Two Against Nature. It's not as tuneful as Mach 1 SD, and it sorta has that harsh digital sheen - it's too perfect.
But some of the songs stand out. I like Cousin Dupree. It's certainly a step down.

― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 16:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Two Against Nature isn't that great, but I think Everything Must Go has some really exceptional moments.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 16:46 (twenty-one years ago)

It's not as tuneful as Mach 1 SD, and it sorta has that harsh digital sheen

OTM. I bought it when it came out and have tried to get into it about 15 times — and aside from the lecherous "Who has a friend named Melanie?/Who's not afraid to try new things?" couplet in "Janie Runaway" and a little bit of "West of Hollywood", absolutely nothing has stuck with me. It's actually hard to listen to...

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 16:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Everything Must Go is pretty awesome, especially the title track - I like 2vN too, if Fagen's writing the songs then I'm a happy man

― Banana Nutrament (ghostface), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 17:37 (twenty-one years ago)

i think its an awkward album b/c its largely about them being awkwardly and ugily old - openly desperate and fairly unsubtle in general. i don't think those themes worked with their usual approach b/c stuff of the past was depressed/creepy/about being fucked, but glamourously and measuredly so. i think they had one foot in that door trying to make it artful, and another in the oh fuck it door. i haven't heard everythign must go but i can see 2 Against being kinda a segueway into something good. (i know i'm the worst album reviewer on ilm, but i just don't care)

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 18:06 (twenty-one years ago)

nah, i like yr stuff, susan.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 18:11 (twenty-one years ago)

thx man

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 18:12 (twenty-one years ago)

I was always skeptical of the fact that Gaucho was considered markedly worse in the discography reviews I read since the best songs on the hits comp, the 1st Dan I heard, were from Gaucho. The title track remains my favorite Steely Dan song, despite how much the arrangement reminds me of a telelvision sitcom theme.

― theodore fogelsanger (herbert hebert), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 18:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I bought this on used vinyl but I still haven't listened to it all the way through. Usually I just put on "Hey Nineteen". But for that alone: classic.

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 18:30 (twenty-one years ago)

The title track remains my favorite Steely Dan song, despite how much the arrangement reminds me of a telelvision sitcom theme.

You can thank Keith Jarrett for that.

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 18:43 (twenty-one years ago)

i like your posts a lot too, susan.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 21:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Is that 'Tusk' (album) snare decay on the intro of "Time Out of Mind"?

― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Thursday, 16 June 2005 06:19 (twenty-one years ago)

I mean cymbals.

Is it "What Makes You Think You're the One" that I'm thinking of? The smashes right at the end of the song?

― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Thursday, 16 June 2005 06:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Skipping 132 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

The title track and "Third World Man" compete for best SD song.

― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 22 September 2020 11:57 (five years ago)

one month passes...

40 years ago today

― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Saturday, 21 November 2020 16:47 (five years ago)

Mass Romantic yesterday, Gaucho today....what's next in line for the excellent album birthday celebration?

― healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Saturday, 21 November 2020 18:25 (five years ago)

eleven months pass...

Seeing the Gaucho show in Morristown, NJ tonight. Has anyone seen them yet on this tour? They haven't done a Gaucho night yet, so I'm not sure exactly what to expect from the second set, but I'm crossing my fingers for "Bad Sneakers" and/or "Deacon Blues" which both seem like realistic possibilities...

― J. Sam, Thursday, 4 November 2021 21:02 (four years ago)

three months pass...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bf7Dr7CzmM

Morris Mobley cover of Glamour Profession

― saer, Thursday, 17 February 2022 16:17 (four years ago)

fun cover, i like how he says "hoops mccain" instead of "hoops mccann," which makes me think he's talking about a black sheep member of that annoying family

― roflrofl fight (voodoo chili), Thursday, 17 February 2022 16:42 (four years ago)

six months pass...

We're double-bumping the Gaucho threads tonight.

Seeing the Gaucho show in Morristown, NJ tonight. Has anyone seen them yet on this tour? They haven't done a Gaucho night yet, so I'm not sure exactly what to expect from the second set, but I'm crossing my fingers for "Bad Sneakers" and/or "Deacon Blues" which both seem like realistic possibilities...
― J. Sam, Thursday, November 4, 2021 5:02 PM (nine months ago) bookmarkflaglink

In retrospect I was foolish to hope for "Deacon Blues." Looks like they only play it in the Aja shows :(

― J. Sam, Saturday, 27 August 2022 01:40 (three years ago)

one year passes...

fantastic descriptions from the man himself

Donald explains Gaucho

new liner notes from the man himself for the upcoming reissue from Analogue Productions pic.twitter.com/dBlaEsYyZn
— Good Steely Dan Takes (@baddantakes) April 12, 2024

― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Friday, 12 April 2024 17:35 (two years ago)

seven months pass...

new Mulaney Steely Dan bit just dropped pic.twitter.com/gV1dDAhu44
— Good Steely Dan Takes (@baddantakes) December 11, 2024

― bratwurst autumn (Eazy), Wednesday, 11 December 2024 17:15 (one year ago)

my baby loves "daddy don't live in that new york city no more." idk why you would try to play gaucho for a baby!

― now TAYNE i can get into (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 11 December 2024 17:55 (one year ago)

Ahahahaha that story

Also he should have played “Peg” or “Kid Charlemagne”

― DJP, Wednesday, 11 December 2024 18:14 (one year ago)

Has Mulaney been working out or something? He looks more like a Dude than he used to.

― Cow_Art, Wednesday, 11 December 2024 18:51 (one year ago)

He got a chin implant recently (discussed over in the SNL thread), plus I imagine between sobriety and locking down Olivia Munn he has incentive towards being fit.

― Okay, heteros are cutting edge this year, too. (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 11 December 2024 18:57 (one year ago)

one year passes...

The perfect parody doesn't ex....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnvXJRDdaT4

― whimsical skeedaddler (Moodles), Thursday, 7 May 2026 05:02 (one month ago)

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