"Toxic" vs "Faint"

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I think Faint might actually be one of my top 5 favourite singles of last year. I've only just heard Toxic and it clearly needs to be number 1 for eight weeks and conquer the universe.

― Ferrrrrrg (Ferg), Monday, 5 January 2004 19:41 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.chachacha.co.uk/images/britney-toxic.jpg vs http://www.chachacha.co.uk/images/fastfoodrocker.jpg ?

― James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Saturday, 17 January 2004 03:50 (twenty-two years ago)

two weeks pass...

The Toxic video - Britney is biting Jennifer Garner's glam-spy style big time! Kind of a bad idea for her, but an awesome achievement for the producers of Alias.

― Kim (Kim), Saturday, 31 January 2004 17:27 (twenty-two years ago)

The bastards who make CD:UK only showed about half of it this morning. Damn them to hell!

Most underrated thing Britney's done = "Born To Make You Happy". That really is a gorgeous song.

― Nick H (Nick H), Saturday, 31 January 2004 17:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I love "Born To Make You Happy," but I still fail to understand the appeal of "Toxic."

― billstevejim, Saturday, 31 January 2004 18:40 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm a total fool for strings and I have to say that 'Toxic' is like a '04 pop summation of Danny Elfman (ie Batman Returns). The singing is of course classic Britney (ie not up to much, but fits with the song anyway), the production is class and the tune is actually pretty damn melodic (Geirism). And I do like the hook and the video a fair bit, esp. the fact that Brit tries on a few different styles but somehow isn't as in ytour face about it as she could've been (it's a change alright, but somehow I don't find it particularly ostentatious).

That's the appeal for me. That and she looks hott.

― Barima (Barima), Saturday, 31 January 2004 19:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Barima sums it up nicely!

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 31 January 2004 19:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't know that BTMYH is underrated, it went #1, and all. Her most underrated single is Don't Let Me Be The Last To Know, that's beyond great.

― edward o (edwardo), Sunday, 1 February 2004 03:14 (twenty-two years ago)

The superfluous record scratching in "MMMBop" is so great

― Mike Ouderkirk (Mike Ouderkirk), Sunday, 1 February 2004 03:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Mike OTM.

People forget about BTMYH though, sandwiched as it was between the behemoths of "Baby..." and "Ooops...". I think she was also at her hottest then, with the shorter, auburn hair. Rowr.

― Nick H (Nick H), Sunday, 1 February 2004 13:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Dan - cheers. Nick otm. I think I like BTMYH a little more than those behemoths some days.

― Barima (Barima), Sunday, 1 February 2004 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

BTMYH = best thing ever obv.

I'm not sure why the strings on "Toxic" are being singled out as derivative when said strings are similar to so many other pop songs - how is this distinct from "Die Another Die" or "Don't Know What To Tell Ya" or etc. etc.? "Toxic" is great but it's hardly the first pop song to use strings in this fashion.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 2 February 2004 11:12 (twenty-two years ago)

holy moly "Toxic" should have been the first single! "Me Against The Music" was so dire it may have damaged her career irreparably; if she had come out with this single/video first the britney train would have just kept on rollin!

― teeny (teeny), Thursday, 5 February 2004 19:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I think "Me Against The Music" may be Brit's most underrated song actually, if the Madonna cameo was surgically removed it'd be truly awesome. "Brave New Girl" should have been the lead single though! With "Toxic" and "Outrageous" as follow-ups.

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 5 February 2004 19:39 (twenty-two years ago)

How is "Those strings have been used a million times before!" a defense/rebuttal against "Those strings are derivative!"?

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 5 February 2004 19:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Tone of voice.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 5 February 2004 19:50 (twenty-two years ago)

the "too high. can't cooommme do-own" bit is truly wondrous and SO fun to sing along to.

― lid, Thursday, 5 February 2004 20:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Don't forget, "BTMYH" was a UK #1 - it was never played on the radio in America, so it's easy for Americans to underrate it, I suppose.

― billstevejim, Thursday, 5 February 2004 22:11 (twenty-two years ago)

"How is "Those strings have been used a million times before!" a defense/rebuttal against "Those strings are derivative!"?"

As in, it's like singling out a house tune and saying "man the 4/4 beat on that is really derivative". The strings in "Toxic" are stock-in-trade (if not quite as much as a house beat) but in a good way - a spoonful of cliche always helps the pop tune get down.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 5 February 2004 22:19 (twenty-two years ago)

"Toxic" is the second Britney's single I've been impressed by. Its simply brilliant! Probably the best mainstream song I've heard in years.

Is "Faint" another Britney song? Forgive my ignorance but Im not a big Britney Spears fan.

― daavid, Friday, 6 February 2004 00:56 (twenty-two years ago)

"Faint" is a Linkin Park song and is almost, if not exactly, as good.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 6 February 2004 03:58 (twenty-two years ago)

anyone still doubt "Toxic" is gonna get MASSIVE very soon?

i haven't seen such positive consensus about a pop single among the people i know since... "Hey Ya"! but last night... two friends and i had our monthly hip hop/r&B/dancehall/ukg/pop club night, and as a friend was finishing his set with Sticky/Ms Dynamite's "Booo!", i mixed "Toxic" into it. when those strings soared, people started screaming!!! and when the beat kicked in, all hell broke loose. everyone was jumping, hands in the air all over the place, and the pre-chorus buzzy bit drove 'em nuts! you couldn't believe the joyful pandemonium it caused. after that i played "Hey Ya", and it got even more euphoric. (enthusiast pop djs take note: No Doubt's "It's My Life" also tore the place up!)

i was always annoyed with the Madonna comparisons, but now i've turned around to thinking that, for beter or worse, Britney IS the new Madonna. "I'm A Slave 4 U" warmed her up to my 20-something peers in a way that no pop-crit Cheiron praises ever could, and now she's everyone's favourite upfront pop-diva to get the party started. i've noticed da laydeez are especially fond of her.

the best thing that could happen right now is "Toxic" indeed becoming incredibly massive, and in turn making Britney ditch the lame R&B aspirations and do a whole album with those Swede guys who did "Toxic" and "Showdown". well, i can dream...

(also: how come no-one's yet mentioned how "Toxic"'s middle-eight TOTALLY rips off "Rock Lobster"?!?)

― Mind Taker, Friday, 13 February 2004 19:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm so lost. What does DJ Shadow have to do with anything? Was he sampled? How could he be sampled, he's a DJ? Was something he sampled also sampled?

― David Allen (David Allen), Friday, 13 February 2004 20:13 (twenty-two years ago)

DJ Shadow has little to do with any of this - he was just the first guy I could think of who used string samples many years ago.

― billstevejim, Friday, 13 February 2004 20:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Britney IS the new Madonna.

doesn't Madonna, like, sing LEAD on her songs? I finally heard "Toxic" and I was surprised how frikkin' barely there Britney is on it. It's entertaining but I definitely prefer "Faint."

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 13 February 2004 22:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Anthony, one of the reason I love Britney so much is because there's virtually nothing of her in the song - she's always sounded not-quite-human, and "Toxic" just ups the robot levels even more (though not quite as much as "Brave New Girl"!)

"Toxic" will indeed be huge... people with all sorts of tastes seem to be loving it equally.

― The Lex (The Lex), Friday, 13 February 2004 23:04 (twenty-two years ago)

It should do OK (though I'm not ready to say huge). Some girl requested it on the RAP (or urban or whatever, they call it "hits" but they don't play Nickelback - thank god - like the top 40 station does) station in town and they actually played it.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 13 February 2004 23:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm really surprised by the omissions in this thread. Nobody has mentioned the key points about Toxic:

* The producer's name. Bloodshy (real name: Christian Lars Karlsson).

* The fact that the string arrangement is all about pastiching Islamic and Indian pop.

I agree that it's the best pop single since 'Hey Ya'. I say this as someone so sick of pop that I only notice it when it's startlingly good, as 'Toxic' is.

― Momus (Momus), Saturday, 14 February 2004 17:28 (twenty-two years ago)

'Toxic'>>>>'Hey Ya!'

― Barima (Barima), Saturday, 14 February 2004 21:58 (twenty-two years ago)

don't

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 14 February 2004 22:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm still really loving "Toxic"; I'm glad other people are so enthusiastic about it.

― Sean (Sean), Sunday, 15 February 2004 04:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't believe nobody's mentioned how both the strings, and the guitar (which nobody has mentioned) are both very Bond movie sounding.

― Jedmond, Sunday, 15 February 2004 04:48 (twenty-two years ago)

jess noted it's basically spybeat

― cinniblount (James Blount), Sunday, 15 February 2004 04:57 (twenty-two years ago)

In this thread?, I'm not doubting you, I just couldn't see it.

― Jedmond, Sunday, 15 February 2004 05:19 (twenty-two years ago)

oops - it was on his blog! my bad!

― cinniblount (James Blount), Sunday, 15 February 2004 05:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Didn't Bloodshy work on the first Mis-Teeq record? Or am I getting my faux-urban Swiss producers mixed up?

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Sunday, 15 February 2004 06:04 (twenty-two years ago)

MY GOD even MOMUS!!

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Sunday, 15 February 2004 11:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd just like Momus to explain what he meant by saying Toxic's string arrangment is a pastiche of Indian and Islamic pop.

― Jedmond, Sunday, 15 February 2004 13:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Bloodshy did work with Misteeq, and also worked with Cathy Dennis on Sweet Dreams My LA ex, yes?

the strings make this song so euphoric, but i love the surfy guitar bits in the chorus too. and i disagree that you cant hear britney's presence/vocals on this song, i mean it's supposed to be cool, breathy, sexy, innit? which it is.

― lid, Sunday, 15 February 2004 14:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Bloodshy also did Christina Milian's "When You Look At Me". i first stumbled upon his name on Deetah's '99 "Deadly Cha Cha" album (ha, anyone remember her?).

― Mind Taker, Sunday, 15 February 2004 16:01 (twenty-two years ago)

He did Milian's "AM To PM" too, and stuff for Ms Dynamite, including "It Takes More" and "Put Him Out". I thought he was American though, not Scandanavian. He does that Jerkins-style shouting his name at the beginning of his tracks.

― Nick H (Nick H), Sunday, 15 February 2004 16:20 (twenty-two years ago)

The guitar on Toxic reminds me of Morricone.

― Joe Kay (feethurt), Sunday, 15 February 2004 17:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Re: spy style - that sound was part of what I was referring to with the Alias biting post upthread. That show has had an absolutely massive stylistic impact - espionage is cool again, and Bond has nothing to do with it.

― Kim (Kim), Monday, 16 February 2004 00:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, I remember Dee-Tah. I remember hating her, maybe the years have changed me. I doubt it somehow, though. I'm thinking of the chorus of 'Relax', positive vibes not forthcoming...

(I do very much like Toxic tho)

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Monday, 16 February 2004 01:13 (twenty-two years ago)

one month passes...

the little distortion/glitch breakdown in 'toxic' reminds me of aphex twin's 'windowlicker.'

― morris pavilion (samjeff), Sunday, 21 March 2004 06:49 (twenty-two years ago)

re: the "those string samples are there to give dj shadow-esque cred" and similar comments.

wtf? yes i'm sure thats what the producers were thinking.. "how can we trick those pesky music nerds to like this song?"

hehehe

― don, Sunday, 21 March 2004 13:20 (twenty-two years ago)

not a diss.. i'm a music nerd myself..

― don, Sunday, 21 March 2004 13:28 (twenty-two years ago)

two years pass...

Both songs are still boring.

― billstevejim (billstevejim), Friday, 16 June 2006 17:24 (nineteen years ago)

I like both these songs. The samples may be derivative, but they're extremely effective.

― chap who would dare to be a nerd, not a geek (chap), Friday, 16 June 2006 17:29 (nineteen years ago)

two years pass...

still boring

― billstevejim, Monday, 18 May 2009 20:39 (seventeen years ago)

how can the same dumb revive happen to the same guy twice?

― Hard House SugBanton (blueski), Monday, 18 May 2009 21:01 (seventeen years ago)

cos it did

― billstevejim, Monday, 18 May 2009 21:29 (seventeen years ago)

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