Sonic Youth: Classic or Dud/S&D?

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I'm currently listening to Experimental Jet Set for the first time in years. It's the first Sonic Youth record I ever heard -- the first song I ever heard was "Bull in the Heather" -- and it sounds so beautiful right now. I love that there are so many quiet moments on this record -- but pretty stuff, not pretentious spoken word or nothin'. Thurston even plays an acoustic on the first track! AMG gives it two stars -- underrated, I say.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 22 September 2003 03:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I just wish that album didn't have "Bull in the Heather" as a lead single. Really always rubbed me the wrong way, one of Kim Gordon's worst moments. And trust me, she's had plenty of great ones! But the way she delivers the chorus...really eh.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 22 September 2003 03:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey, as long as this is coming up again, I've become more and more convinced that the first ep is due for a critical reappraisal, especially since its influences are much more "now" than they were when it came out. Fantastic sound, Kim is restrained, cool tension and release. If they put it out today, it'd get filed under post-rock for sure. It doesn't redefine guitar rock, like what came next, but it sounds awfully good these days and really deserves a re-release.

― dlp9001, Monday, 22 September 2003 03:18 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, it's really crazy that the self-titled EP got left behind in the whole onslaught of DGC reissues in the 90's...I remember them talking a few years ago about the idea of re-releasing it on Smells Like, but that never came to be. it's a pretty good record, kind of different from where the went w/ Confusion Is Sex, and I still can't get over the fact that Ferris Beuller's parking attendant played the drums.

― Al (sitcom), Monday, 22 September 2003 05:07 (twenty-two years ago)

most pretentious band
which album have you played the most in your entire life?
did they break punk ?
canonical, politics, etc..
maybe main gripe, the patronising (?) of new zealand
anecdote/incident
maybe folly
etc.
etc.
etc..

― george gosset (gegoss), Monday, 22 September 2003 12:38 (twenty-two years ago)

DN was my fave for several years, but lately I've been listening mostly to Dirty, which rocks like a muthaf@&#$^.

― o. nate (onate), Monday, 22 September 2003 12:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Experimental Jet Set is way underrated; it's my favorite album of theirs after Sister. I like the first 3-4 songs on Daydream Nation, but then I always turn it off.

My Sonic Youth Top Five:

1. Sister
2. Bad Moon Rising
3. "Kool Thing" (only really great if you read the Kim Gordon profile of LL Cool J for Spin, which inspired it)
4. Experimental Jet Set, Trash and No Star
5. Goodbye 20th Century

I'm actually shocked nobody brought up that last one, whether pro or con. I think it's fantastic, really beautiful in parts and really ugly/beautiful in others. Much better than any "regular" album they've put out since Goo.

― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Monday, 22 September 2003 12:58 (twenty-two years ago)

hmm, I'm surprised by the lack of love for 'Murray Street', which IMO is their best post-Sister album..

Oh and Phil, do you know where I can find that LL profile?

― Fabrice (Fabfunk), Monday, 22 September 2003 13:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Wish I did. Run a Google search; maybe some psycho SY fan has scanned it.

― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Monday, 22 September 2003 13:41 (twenty-two years ago)

i usually start DN at side two, and then play side three
"Hey Joni" would have to be one of my favourite songs, and it used to be at the bedinning of side three

― george gosset (gegoss), Monday, 22 September 2003 15:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Fabrice- there is plenty of love for 'murray street' (i do think its one of their very very best though I like everything I've heard, even NYC ghosts and flowers, which I hated at first...but then again i haven't heard all of their recs). There are other SY threads but i don't think george pulled them up (how very naughty of him).

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 22 September 2003 15:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I bought Murray Street solely because the horn players from Borbetomagus appear on one track. What a waste of $15.

― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Monday, 22 September 2003 15:37 (twenty-two years ago)

still the best live rock band out there, especially w/ the new o'rourke-ified lineup.

― dan (dan), Monday, 22 September 2003 15:41 (twenty-two years ago)

'Murray street' definetely grew on me and its a good companion to 'sister'.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 22 September 2003 15:47 (twenty-two years ago)

The fact that borb are on there is so great too.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 22 September 2003 15:49 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, but why not one more side of DN> (&whitey) quality session of borb and sy ? and the a whole 60 minutes of other interesting semi-intrumental experiments ? why such a small look-in for the buddies on Geffen
(cf: the eps, non-Geffen cheques presumably ? but sy still haven't done an ep with borb, whereas Kowald et. al. did do that "..jam" lp with the new yorkers at least ten years ago)

― george gosset (gegoss), Monday, 22 September 2003 16:17 (twenty-two years ago)

All SY records have something to recommend them (except for maybe NY Ghosts and Flowers, which admittedly I only listened to twice but really hated both times, then sold back). The EP is excellent, why is this OOP? I thankfully found one for five dollars last year then turned around and Ebayed it for more than ten times that, but not without ripping a copy first. The Burning Spear is up there with their best songs. I still find that I listen to Sister and EVOL more than any of the other records though (but Murray St. was in the player for at least six months and has had a higher return ratio than 1000 Leaves or Washing Machine, both of which I initially thought were exceptional but didn't hold my interest too much over the long run).

― anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Monday, 22 September 2003 16:29 (twenty-two years ago)

One of the few bands that I like better live than on record.

That said, I think their career arc is pretty interesting -- starting weird and then getting conventional (by their standards, anyway) and then getting weird again, except that the weirdness on the other side is so much better than the early stuff.

I like the Sister-Daydream-Goo-Dirty quartet and then A Thousand Leaves best. Also liked Murray Street more than most I think.

― chris herrington (chris herrington), Monday, 22 September 2003 18:01 (twenty-two years ago)

there is no need to own more than a couple of sonic youth albums. their evolution is overstated, and their long players would start to grate if played back-to-back. people often say "they have an incredible back catalogue!". while it may be true that they have lots of decent albums, there is no need for so damn many.

"DY" is incredible, though. the kim gordon tracks especially - "kissability" is just filthy. i think "washing machine" may be undervalued - the first song on side two (can't remember the name) is their best Pop track.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Monday, 22 September 2003 21:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I have trouble following you there.. You think there is bno need for them to have put out so many good albums??
I feel on the contrary that their evolution is under-rated, with many people thinking that if you've heard 'Goo', you've heard it all..

― Fabrice (Fabfunk), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 06:44 (twenty-two years ago)

why no love for confusion is sex? my favorite SY album by a long shot. if only they had stuck with Jim Sclavunos, i say. does he rock out as much on the Nick Cave records?

― Dave M. (rotten03), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 06:54 (twenty-two years ago)

those first lps, ep etc. were good, and getting progressively better, with the exception of Bad Moon Rising, which felt like the end for many listeners i knew at that time,.. saved by Lydia Lunch and that ep

― george gosset (gegoss), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Bad Moon Rising is easily one of my favourites. The moment when SY really managed to channel their no wave experimentation impulse into songs and a great understanding of the album format. Up there with Sister. IMO, the bonus DV69 EP is superfluous

― Fabrice (Fabfunk), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 06:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Man this is one thread I just can't get. Sonic Youth, Classic or Dud? Sonic frickin Youth, classic or dud?!

People hating on Murray Street? Are you fucking kidding me?! Murray Street is an OUTSTANDING album that 99% of indie rock bands would have to consider themselves LUCKY to accomplish.

Wow; I don't know, Kilian. I mean I don't know how to respond to your disdain for Daydream nation. LIke, normally when I post around here I sort of try to acquit myself well and like mount intelligent defenses and stuff. But fuck it if you don't get Daydream Nation - one of the most consistently fascinating documents of four human beings picking up two guitars, a bass guitar, and a drum kit; - if you, kilian murphy, can't listen to that record and find meaning in it... well, I dunno. Fuck it, I guess.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 07:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean, it's solipsism, at base. I understand that, and it's a big problem I'm trying to work through here.

But Christ, Sonic Youth! Ah well, whatever.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 07:27 (twenty-two years ago)

i think Kilian likes 'daydream...' diamond. there is a thread on daydream nation that you should read for some good args pro and against.

he's only saying that their long players, if played back-to-back, would start to grate: i think this could be said about most long players by most bands (though not many got to make them).

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 09:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Search: "Teen Age Riot" "100%"
Destroy: "Addicted to Love" "Swimsuit Issue" "Kool Thing" Goodbye 20th Century "Death Valley 69" the third part of the trilogy, "Tunic" basically anything where they're being annoying in a look-at-us-and-how-underground-we-are! manner.

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 12:51 (twenty-two years ago)

DV69, Kool Thing? U are mad!
I'd say destroy: 'Little Trouble Girl', 'Hotwire my Heart', 'Bubblegum'
Search: the rest

― Fabrice (Fabfunk), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 13:00 (twenty-two years ago)

how is "kool thing" 'look-at-us-and-how-underground-we-are'?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 22:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I was about to say I can't wait to reappraise my Sonic Youth albums but if that was the case I would have done it by now.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 23:45 (twenty-two years ago)

i think searching and destroying songs is the wrong way to go. i think sy stand or fall on the strength, the combined artistic intent and creativity of all the songs on particular albums. i say this because sy are clearly an albums(& eps) band.

a couple of Mr. Snrub's "destroys" strike me as so counter-productive that i'm assuming he's playing devil's advocate. but generally, isn't arguing about this song or that song just a bit like arguing about spare change in the case of this band ?

― george gosset (gegoss), Thursday, 25 September 2003 02:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I just can't seem to pass their pretentious "Oh we're so indie cool" image. Maybe if they put me a SY song and didn't tell me it was Sonic Youth, I might like it, but for some reason I search for their songs, and some seem ok, but not as great as many people cut them out to be.

― Cacaman Flores, Thursday, 25 September 2003 16:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Far too old to be classic anymore and Jim O'Rourke's in them and that's the living end

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 25 September 2003 16:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd always thought that they were presenting their image as a send-up: "We love our indie roots, and still we're not afraid to let you know it." Still, many people love SY cause they can connect certain songs to specific events that happened in their lives. That's not unusual, however.

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Thursday, 25 September 2003 22:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I've grown so fed up with this line of argument, 'they're songs might be good, but I hate them because it's them' (after hearing it a zillion time re. the Strokes).
I don't think SY is trying to project anything or pretending to be something they're not. Whoever disses a band for being nauseatingly cool always strikes me as being bitter..

― Fabrice (Fabfunk), Friday, 26 September 2003 06:39 (twenty-two years ago)

''Far too old to be classic anymore and Jim O'Rourke's in them and that's the living end''

oh come on: i think its great that some 40 year olds are still making rock music and still having a group that they started with unlike awful 'solo' projects that rockstars have to cash in on their 'fame' (they do have solo projects but just as another thing, SY is always something they all come back to).

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 26 September 2003 08:04 (twenty-two years ago)

"oh come on: i think its great that some 40 year olds are still making rock music"

that is true, but not for sy
and Jim O'Rourke, after ten years of frantic activity, and he's a rock star ? so sy are looking after him, ok..
but where does so-called Thurstin' f'r Moore get off calling O'Rourke "our Eno" ?

― george gosset (gegoss), Friday, 26 September 2003 08:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd be surprised if that wasn't a joke.

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 26 September 2003 08:25 (twenty-two years ago)

that should actually say: great that 40 year old are still making 'good' recok music bcz i think they are.

George if thurston did call O'rouke their ''eno'' i'd say its probably a fair comparison: O'rouke makes solo records, collaborations and produces other people's records.

x-post: I thought it was a joke at first but thiking more abt it i think its a half-joke/half-compliment too.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 26 September 2003 08:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, "our" Eno, it's not a bad comparison except brian dresses a fuck of a lot better

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 26 September 2003 08:35 (twenty-two years ago)

fair andrew you could become ILM's fashion correspondent.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 26 September 2003 08:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Clown pants are out this season

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 26 September 2003 08:56 (twenty-two years ago)

so what's this great artist O'Rourke's work rate been since he joined sy ?
why would he want to restrict himself like that, unless he had to ?

― george gosset (gegoss), Friday, 26 September 2003 10:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Good question, I might be wrong but it kinda seems he's focussing on his SONG records now, rather than maintaining the 2-3 albums a week improv etc workrate he had for most of the 90s. I've never liked him all that much anyway.

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 26 September 2003 10:35 (twenty-two years ago)

i think it's fair to call O'Rourke a good team member, a good collaborator.
cf: eno,
who made several extraordinarily good solo records,
(even if they were possibly really team efforts in some ways too, but if so then much less so than at the O'Rourke level of collaboration,)
and who was also the merchandising guru for at least four whole movements.

― george gosset (gegoss), Friday, 26 September 2003 16:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Good question, I might be wrong but it kinda seems he's focussing on his SONG records now

I'd prefer if he got round to focussing on making GOOD records for a change.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Saturday, 27 September 2003 14:37 (twenty-two years ago)

heh, to clear up:

i love daydream nation. hence i said:

""DY" is incredible".

"I have trouble following you there.. You think there is bno need for them to have put out so many good albums??"

i used the word "decent" which is different to saying they've released lots of flat out Good albums. most of the post-daydream nation stuff i've heard seems solid, but not worth getting if you already have a couple of the Seriously Good SY records. Most of what they've done sounds like it has a hell of a lot in common with the album before - without much improvement. "Washing Machine" may be an exception.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Sunday, 28 September 2003 08:27 (twenty-two years ago)

to illustrate - if a friend said to me that they wanted to get into sonic youth, i would say : Definitely buy Daydream Nation. After that, you only need one or two more. those one or two more could be pretty much any album in their catalogue, but once you've got those you've heard all you're going to need.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Sunday, 28 September 2003 08:55 (twenty-two years ago)

"if you already have a couple of the Seriously Good SY records"

tbh, daydream nation is the only one that fits into this category.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Sunday, 28 September 2003 08:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I've started liking Daydream Nation again.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Sunday, 28 September 2003 13:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 1720 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

they posted a cryptic image to IG of the Washing Machine cover but with “2026” on it

idc if they do a cash grab reunion tour, I never saw them when they were around the first time so I am in and will fight any and everyone to go

But it prob won’t be a tour, just some reissues or new Levi’s tees

― Murgatroid, Friday, 26 September 2025 19:49 (nine months ago)

👀

― sleeve, Friday, 26 September 2025 19:54 (nine months ago)

when I've interviewed Lee and Steve in the past, they've both teased the idea of a big Washing Machine box set kinda thing, which would be rad.

I think the ship has sailed on an actual SY reunion, though I'd love to be proven wrong. Or maybe it'd just be totally awkward.

― tylerw, Friday, 26 September 2025 20:05 (nine months ago)

Paz Lenchantin subbing in for Kim.

― Instead of create and send out, it pull back and consume (unperson), Friday, 26 September 2025 20:09 (nine months ago)

lol unperson

I’ve been waiting for this reissue (which has been written up as in progress over the last few years)

― Clever Message Board User Name (Raymond Cummings), Friday, 26 September 2025 20:16 (nine months ago)

from 2022:

In/Out/In won’t be the last Sonic Youth archival dig. A deluxe version of 1995’s Washing Machine, largely completed but awaiting release, will include demos, live material from that period, and several different version of their epic “Diamond Sea.” (That release may not come until the album’s 30th anniversary, so be prepared to wait at least three years.) A deluxe edition of 1987’s Sister is also being readied.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/sonic-youth-in-out-in-1284378/

― imperial frfr (Steve Shasta), Friday, 26 September 2025 20:49 (nine months ago)

thurston canceled his book tour last year due to his heart condition, i don't think he's in any shape to go back on the arena revival circuit, that is unless...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLeslavEByQ

― imperial frfr (Steve Shasta), Friday, 26 September 2025 20:50 (nine months ago)

think I saw Shelly announce the box on instagram or fb or something about an hour ago.

― I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Friday, 26 September 2025 21:50 (nine months ago)

As of now, Shelley’s Instagram just shows the same cryptic image. I’m assuming the reissue, which is fine by me. Love the album and I’ll take as many versions of “The Diamond Sea” as they wanna share.

― better than ezra collective soul asylum (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 26 September 2025 22:37 (nine months ago)

YEah, Washing Machine is one of my absolute faves and I would love, love, love to hear more of it

― conspiracitorial theories (stevie), Saturday, 27 September 2025 14:43 (nine months ago)

it's just, why wouldn't they put out the reissue this year then, on the 30th anniversary? did someone drop the ball here

― Murgatroid, Saturday, 27 September 2025 15:15 (nine months ago)

They were reissuing Hold That Tiger instead

― conspiracitorial theories (stevie), Saturday, 27 September 2025 15:35 (nine months ago)

But also as I understand it the Washing Machine reissue is being done with Geffen which means working with a major label and they move slowly, esp if the margin is likely to be slim, as with SY

― conspiracitorial theories (stevie), Saturday, 27 September 2025 15:35 (nine months ago)

the WM box has been done for over 3 years according to my previous post.

― imperial frfr (Steve Shasta), Saturday, 27 September 2025 16:57 (nine months ago)

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