Pazz & Jop 2008

I wonder how his "they don't know I exist so I'll just act like a grousy douche until they acknowledge my shining light" gambit will work out for him.

No great loss, but I'll vote next year since this is a Village Voice Media paper.

Guess he hasn't been keeping up with this thread:
Village Voice Media being acquired by New Times very soon

No great loss, but I'll vote ring up your order at Barnes and Noble next year since this is a Village Voice Media paper.

They kept the VVM name when they bought it.

I'm talking about all the layoffs

Got it.

http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/61/m_cef56201b2804b0e99be4ef617daec6a.jpg

^^^your lolworthy phoenix scribe

Ha! Forgot out totally minimalist my ballot was.

http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/critics/2008/769868

Of course, the fact that I can't vote for my booking clients does cut into my ability to honestly make a year end list.

Um, forgot how. Not "out".

Here, for amusement, is the poll recalculated by taking the 89 albums that got 12 or more votes and ranking them by the percentage of their votes that came from people who voted for at least three things nobody else picked. An eccentricity ranking, maybe.

Eccentricity Ratio - Votes by Eccentrics - Total Votes - Arist - Album:

0.42 - 6 - 14 - Fennesz - Black Sea
0.33 - 4 - 12 - Toumani Diabate - Mande Variations
0.31 - 6 - 19 - Young Jeezy - Recession
0.3 - 7 - 23 - Death Cab for Cutie - Narrow Stairs
0.3 - 4 - 13 - Guns N' Roses - Chinese Democracy
0.3 - 4 - 13 - James McMurtry - Just Us Kids
0.3 - 4 - 13 - Knux - Remind Me in 3 Days...
0.28 - 4 - 14 - Elvis Costello and the Imposters - Momofuku
0.27 - 6 - 22 - Duffy - Rockferry
0.25 - 7 - 28 - She and Him - Volume One
0.24 - 11 - 45 - Raphael Saadiq - Way I See It
0.23 - 3 - 13 - Eddy Current Suppression Ring - Primary Colours
0.23 - 4 - 17 - Hayes Carll - Trouble in Mind
0.23 - 3 - 13 - Shelby Lynne - Just a Little Lovin'
0.22 - 5 - 22 - Al Green - Lay It Down
0.22 - 4 - 18 - Jamey Johnson - That Lonesome Song
0.22 - 4 - 18 - Taylor Swift - Fearless
0.21 - 3 - 14 - Flying Lotus - Los Angeles
0.21 - 5 - 23 - Frightened Rabbit - Midnight Organ Fight
0.21 - 3 - 14 - Wolf Parade - At Mount Zoomer
0.2 - 3 - 15 - Beach House - Devotion
0.19 - 4 - 21 - Gang Gang Dance - Saint Dymphna
0.19 - 8 - 41 - MGMT - Oracular Spectacular
0.18 - 3 - 16 - Lindstrom - Where You Go I Go Too
0.18 - 19 - 102 - Portishead - Third
0.18 - 6 - 32 - Q-Tip - Renaissance
0.17 - 4 - 23 - Alejandro Escovedo - Real Animal
0.17 - 5 - 29 - R.E.M. - Accelerate
0.16 - 4 - 25 - Beck - Modern Guilt
0.16 - 2 - 12 - Bonnie Prince Billy - Lie Down in the Light
0.16 - 2 - 12 - Dr. Dog - Fate
0.16 - 3 - 18 - Estelle - Shine
0.16 - 4 - 24 - Metallica - Death Magnetic
0.16 - 2 - 12 - Spiritualized - Songs in A and E
0.15 - 2 - 13 - Orchestra Baobab - Made in Dakar
0.15 - 3 - 20 - Sigur Ros - Med Sud I Eyrum Vid Spilum Endalaust
0.15 - 2 - 13 - Times New Viking - Rip It Off
0.14 - 2 - 14 - Crystal Castles - Crystal Castles
0.14 - 2 - 14 - Fuck Buttons - Street Horrrsing
0.14 - 6 - 42 - Hercules and Love Affair - Hercules and Love Affair
0.14 - 4 - 28 - M83 - Saturdays=Youth
0.13 - 5 - 36 - Bob Dylan - Bootleg Series, Vol. 8: Tell Tale Signs - Rare and Unreleased 1989-2006
0.13 - 2 - 15 - Conor Oberst - Conor Oberst
0.13 - 11 - 80 - Erykah Badu - New Amerykah, Pt. 1: 4th World War
0.13 - 3 - 22 - Magnetic Fields - Distortion
0.13 - 8 - 61 - Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds - Dig!!! Lazarus Dig!!!
0.12 - 3 - 24 - Kings of Leon - Only by the Night
0.11 - 2 - 18 - Elbow - Seldom Seen Kid
0.11 - 5 - 43 - Girl Talk - Feed the Animals
0.11 - 3 - 26 - Torche - Meanderthal
0.1 - 3 - 30 - Cut Copy - In Ghost Colours
0.1 - 3 - 28 - David Byrne and Brian Eno - Everything That Happens Will Happen Today
0.1 - 8 - 79 - Santogold - Santogold
0.1 - 16 - 154 - TV on the Radio - Dear Science
0.09 - 5 - 55 - Deerhunter - Microcastle/Weird Era Continued
0.09 - 2 - 22 - Lucinda Williams - Little Honey
0.09 - 2 - 22 - Stephen Malkmus and the Jicks - Real Emotional Trash
0.09 - 2 - 22 - T.I. - Paper Trail
0.09 - 2 - 21 - Vivian Girls - Vivian Girls
0.08 - 2 - 25 - Blitzen Trapper - Furr
0.08 - 1 - 12 - Glasvegas - Glasvegas
0.08 - 5 - 57 - Kanye West - 808s and Heartbreak
0.08 - 7 - 78 - Lil Wayne - Tha Carter III
0.08 - 2 - 25 - Ne-Yo - Year of the Gentleman
0.08 - 4 - 48 - Randy Newman - Harps and Angels
0.08 - 2 - 25 - Roots - Rising Down
0.07 - 2 - 28 - Gaslight Anthem - '59 Sound
0.07 - 4 - 54 - Hold Steady - Stay Positive
0.07 - 2 - 26 - Hot Chip - Made in the Dark
0.07 - 1 - 14 - Jenny Lewis - Acid Tongue
0.07 - 1 - 14 - Nas - Untitled
0.07 - 1 - 14 - Of Montreal - Skeletal Lamping
0.07 - 8 - 105 - Vampire Weekend - Vampire Weekend
0.06 - 6 - 87 - Fleet Foxes - Fleet Foxes
0.06 - 2 - 32 - Los Campesinos! - Hold on Now, Youngster...
0.06 - 1 - 15 - Lykke Li - Youth Novels
0.06 - 3 - 43 - My Morning Jacket - Evil Urges
0.05 - 1 - 18 - Black Keys - Attack and Release
0.05 - 2 - 36 - Coldplay - Viva La Vida, or Death and All His Friends
0.05 - 1 - 20 - Fucked Up - Chemistry of Common Life
0.04 - 3 - 73 - Bon Iver - For Emma, Forever Ago
0.03 - 1 - 28 - Drive-By Truckers - Brighter Than Creation's Dark
0.02 - 1 - 45 - No Age - Nouns
0 - 0 - 13 - Adele - 19
0 - 0 - 12 - Jay Reatard - Matador Singles '08
0 - 0 - 17 - Raconteurs - Consolers of the Lonely
0 - 0 - 12 - Raveonettes - Lust Lust Lust
0 - 0 - 12 - Robyn - Robyn
0 - 0 - 26 - Walkmen - You and Me

Offering the obvious insight that if you liked the Walkmen a lot, you probably didn't hear anything new...

i dont get what hes talking about -- i love eurotrash disco & im from chicago & obviously im hugely influential in the game but who else is he talking about?

xp Ha ha -- Also suggesting that Fennesz was the consensus choice for critics who have no use for consensus. (I thought it sounded good myself, but couldn't figure out why I'd need three Fennesz CDs on my shelf when I already couldn't honestly tell the difference between the other two already there.)

keep on thinkin deej

lol he voted girl talk @ #1

Yeah the Fennesz is def underwhelming compared to his other stuff, but he's like the one laptop dude that corny indue fuxxors mess with. He's like the Amadou And Miriam of speaker static.

Albums I haven't heard of at all are clustered in the second quartile of that eccentricity list.The top quartile is familiar if not conventional. This suggests (I think) that, at their most eccentric, eccentrics may think alike. Or something.

Chinese Democracy was definitely a maverick pick

i like that eccentricity list. more stats like that please!
and yeah, it's really interesting to see fennesz' contrarian-consensus status reaffirmed. (though i suppose you could make the argument that some of the "eccentric" critics that voted for it may have done so as a means to make it place... while i never (consciously) list anything just because i think it has the chance of actually charting, i definitely screw with my points (or have in other years, not this) to help nudge eccentric-consensus picks up a notch or two.)

haha eccentricity might not be the whole story -- jeezy jumping from 48 or whatever he was to #3 is about the 'eccentricity' of people who like rap music i imagine

deej voting for gucci mane makes you an 'eccentric' both in the scope of this poll and in a broader sense

i cant tell if thats an indictment of loltimore or @l sh1pl3y but nah hes actually v popular??

'in a broader sense' more popular than 85% of the rap that gets voted for in VV polls

Here's the same idea again, but this time I define "eccentric" as having voted for no more than 1 of the top 10 albums:

Eccentricity Ratio - Votes by Eccentrics - Total Votes - Arist - Album

0.85 - 12 - 14 - Elvis Costello and the Imposters - Momofuku
0.84 - 11 - 13 - James McMurtry - Just Us Kids
0.78 - 11 - 14 - Fennesz - Black Sea
0.76 - 10 - 13 - Eddy Current Suppression Ring - Primary Colours
0.76 - 10 - 13 - Times New Viking - Rip It Off
0.75 - 9 - 12 - Toumani Diabate - Mande Variations
0.73 - 17 - 23 - Alejandro Escovedo - Real Animal
0.69 - 9 - 13 - Guns N' Roses - Chinese Democracy
0.66 - 12 - 18 - Jamey Johnson - That Lonesome Song
0.62 - 15 - 24 - Metallica - Death Magnetic
0.61 - 8 - 13 - Orchestra Baobab - Made in Dakar
0.6 - 15 - 25 - Beck - Modern Guilt
0.6 - 14 - 23 - Death Cab for Cutie - Narrow Stairs
0.6 - 17 - 28 - She and Him - Volume One
0.59 - 13 - 22 - Al Green - Lay It Down
0.58 - 17 - 29 - R.E.M. - Accelerate
0.58 - 7 - 12 - Raveonettes - Lust Lust Lust
0.58 - 7 - 12 - Spiritualized - Songs in A and E
0.56 - 9 - 16 - Lindstrom - Where You Go I Go Too
0.55 - 20 - 36 - Bob Dylan - Bootleg Series, Vol. 8: Tell Tale Signs - Rare and Unreleased 1989-2006
0.55 - 11 - 20 - Fucked Up - Chemistry of Common Life
0.55 - 25 - 45 - Raphael Saadiq - Way I See It
0.54 - 12 - 22 - Duffy - Rockferry
0.54 - 13 - 24 - Kings of Leon - Only by the Night
0.53 - 8 - 15 - Beach House - Devotion
0.53 - 8 - 15 - Lykke Li - Youth Novels
0.53 - 7 - 13 - Shelby Lynne - Just a Little Lovin'
0.53 - 14 - 26 - Torche - Meanderthal
0.52 - 12 - 23 - Frightened Rabbit - Midnight Organ Fight
0.52 - 11 - 21 - Gang Gang Dance - Saint Dymphna
0.52 - 9 - 17 - Hayes Carll - Trouble in Mind
0.52 - 11 - 21 - Vivian Girls - Vivian Girls
0.5 - 9 - 18 - Black Keys - Attack and Release
0.5 - 7 - 14 - Crystal Castles - Crystal Castles
0.5 - 6 - 12 - Dr. Dog - Fate
0.5 - 14 - 28 - Drive-By Truckers - Brighter Than Creation's Dark
0.5 - 9 - 18 - Estelle - Shine
0.5 - 6 - 12 - Glasvegas - Glasvegas
0.5 - 21 - 42 - Hercules and Love Affair - Hercules and Love Affair
0.5 - 6 - 12 - Jay Reatard - Matador Singles '08
0.5 - 7 - 14 - Jenny Lewis - Acid Tongue
0.5 - 14 - 28 - M83 - Saturdays=Youth
0.5 - 7 - 14 - Of Montreal - Skeletal Lamping
0.5 - 9 - 18 - Taylor Swift - Fearless
0.48 - 20 - 41 - MGMT - Oracular Spectacular
0.47 - 9 - 19 - Young Jeezy - Recession
0.46 - 15 - 32 - Los Campesinos! - Hold on Now, Youngster...
0.46 - 21 - 45 - No Age - Nouns
0.44 - 19 - 43 - My Morning Jacket - Evil Urges
0.42 - 6 - 14 - Flying Lotus - Los Angeles
0.42 - 6 - 14 - Fuck Buttons - Street Horrrsing
0.42 - 6 - 14 - Wolf Parade - At Mount Zoomer
0.41 - 7 - 17 - Raconteurs - Consolers of the Lonely
0.41 - 20 - 48 - Randy Newman - Harps and Angels
0.4 - 10 - 25 - Blitzen Trapper - Furr
0.4 - 9 - 22 - Lucinda Williams - Little Honey
0.4 - 9 - 22 - Magnetic Fields - Distortion
0.4 - 8 - 20 - Sigur Ros - Med Sud I Eyrum Vid Spilum Endalaust
0.4 - 9 - 22 - T.I. - Paper Trail
0.39 - 11 - 28 - Gaslight Anthem - '59 Sound
0.39 - 17 - 43 - Girl Talk - Feed the Animals
0.38 - 10 - 26 - Hot Chip - Made in the Dark
0.38 - 10 - 26 - Walkmen - You and Me
0.37 - 20 - 54 - Hold Steady - Stay Positive
0.37 - 12 - 32 - Q-Tip - Renaissance
0.36 - 13 - 36 - Coldplay - Viva La Vida, or Death and All His Friends
0.36 - 11 - 30 - Cut Copy - In Ghost Colours
0.33 - 5 - 15 - Conor Oberst - Conor Oberst
0.33 - 6 - 18 - Elbow - Seldom Seen Kid
0.32 - 9 - 28 - David Byrne and Brian Eno - Everything That Happens Will Happen Today
0.32 - 18 - 55 - Deerhunter - Microcastle/Weird Era Continued
0.31 - 7 - 22 - Stephen Malkmus and the Jicks - Real Emotional Trash
0.28 - 7 - 25 - Ne-Yo - Year of the Gentleman
0.28 - 7 - 25 - Roots - Rising Down
0.24 - 15 - 61 - Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds - Dig!!! Lazarus Dig!!!
0.23 - 3 - 13 - Adele - 19
0.23 - 3 - 13 - Knux - Remind Me in 3 Days...
0.21 - 3 - 14 - Nas - Untitled
0.21 - 22 - 102 - Portishead - Third
0.18 - 16 - 87 - Fleet Foxes - Fleet Foxes
0.16 - 2 - 12 - Bonnie Prince Billy - Lie Down in the Light
0.15 - 12 - 79 - Santogold - Santogold
0.14 - 22 - 154 - TV on the Radio - Dear Science
0.13 - 11 - 80 - Erykah Badu - New Amerykah, Pt. 1: 4th World War
0.13 - 14 - 105 - Vampire Weekend - Vampire Weekend
0.1 - 8 - 78 - Lil Wayne - Tha Carter III
0.09 - 7 - 73 - Bon Iver - For Emma, Forever Ago
0.08 - 1 - 12 - Robyn - Robyn
0.05 - 3 - 57 - Kanye West - 808s and Heartbreak

That last one might be more "disenfranchised" than "eccentric".

I recall the idolator poll last year skewing slightly differently from the P & J poll. Do you know how many folks who participated in that final idolator poll did not also participate in last year's P & J (or this year's)? It does not appear that P & J gained that many previous idolator only voters.

There were 212 people who voted in Idolator's poll but not P&J last year. Of those I see only about 20 in this year's P&J, and I didn't try to count how many of those had already voted in the P&J in previous years. P&J itself had 574 last year.

Will be posting no2 album in the metal poll in the next 10 mins and then after the no1 some stats Glenn gave me. Then he will be along later to post his complete stats rundown. Please have a look at ILX METAL ALBUMS OF THE YEAR 2008 RESULTS (NOW COUNTING DOWN THE TOP TEN, BTW)

Glenn has just started posting the stats there now

For my one crossover stat with P&J relevance, here is a True Metal ranking (I call this kvltosis; please alert me via messenger pigeon if you get this joke) calculated by taking the albums voted-for in the ILM Metal poll as a definition of what was metal this year, then scoring each P&J voter by how many of those they voted for, then re-rating the P&J albums by the average of those voter-scores for their voters. 1.0 would mean that all an album's voters voted exclusively for metal. But there weren't any of those.

7.3 - Amon Amarth - Twilight of the Thunder God
7.0 - Neuraxis - Thin Line Between
6.0 - In Flames - A Sense of Purpose
5.5 - Leviathan - Massive Conspiracy Against All Life
5.5 - Wetnurse - Invisible City
5.4 - Nachtmystium - Assassins: Black Meddle, Pt.1
5.2 - Enslaved - Vertebrae
5.1 - Opeth - Watershed
4.8 - Gojira - Way of All Flesh
4.8 - Genghis Tron - Board Up the House
4.8 - Meshuggah - obZen
4.8 - Krallice - Krallice
4.5 - Dead Congregation - Graves of the Archangels
4.0 - Harvey Milk - Life...The Best Game in Town
4.0 - In This Moment - Dream
4.0 - Lair of the Minotaur - War Metal Battle Master
3.5 - Ceremony - Still Nothing Moves You
3.5 - Jex Thoth - Jex Thoth
3.5 - Judas Priest - Nostradamus
3.5 - Slim Cessna's Auto Club - Cipher
3.3 - Blood Ceremony - Blood Ceremony
3.3 - Made Out of Babies - Ruiner
3.3 - Sword - Gods of the Earth
3.0 - Darkthrone - Dark Thrones and Black Flags
3.0 - Howlin' Rain - Magnificent Fiend
3.0 - Testament - Formation of Damnation
2.8 - Torche - Meanderthal
2.6 - Disfear - Live the Storm
2.6 - Earth - Bees Made Honey in the Lion's Skull
2.5 - Burning Star Core - Challenger
2.5 - Rhys Chatham and His Guitar Trio All-Stars - Guitar Trio Is My Life!
2.0 - Snowman - Horse, the Rat and the Swan
2.0 - Metallica - Death Magnetic
1.8 - Gutter Twins - Saturnalia
1.7 - Marnie Stern - This Is It . . .
1.7 - Dirtbombs - We Have You Surrounded
1.7 - Mogwai - Hawk Is Howling
1.5 - Baby Dee - Safe Inside the Day
1.5 - Bohren and der Club of Gore - Dolores
1.5 - Boris - Smile
1.5 - Fennesz - Black Sea
1.5 - Heavy - Great Vengeance and Furious Fire
1.5 - Lukestar - Lake Toba
1.5 - Melvins - Nude With Boots
1.5 - Mr. Gnome - Deliver This Creature
1.5 - Necrovation - Breed Deadness Blood
1.4 - AC/DC - Black Ice
1.3 - Jean Grae - Jeanius
1.2 - Dungen - 4
1.2 - Fucked Up - Chemistry of Common Life
1.2 - James Blackshaw - Litany of Echoes

Note that there are a few albums that didn't make the ILM Metal poll even though they might be considered metal by many, including Testament, Judas Priest, and Black Sabbath, but none of these got enough votes to matter much. AC/DC and GNR also don't count, so Phil Freeman, who arguably has the sole all-metal P&J ballot, had 3 of those 5 and thus was scored in these calcualtions as 7, not 10. There was no 9, and the only 8 was Kurt Orzeck, who lost one point for the deathcore band Dr. Acula (no votes in the other poll) and one for My Morning Jacket's Evil Urges, which I have to wonder whether he voted for based on the title without actually listening to it.

LOL

Evil Urges was one of the year's absolute worst albums, metal or not. I listened once and filed that sucker back on the shelf to collect dust for a few years. I remember thinking maybe three or four tracks were passable, the rest awful.

Finally decided to check out Torche. Youtube comments are funny:

this is suppost to be sludge metal
what a shit voice for sludge metal he is trying to sing all pop. i think they need to find a better vocalist cos this is shit

That's why I kinda like it

Next question: Are there really that many p&j voters who are so stuck on old rap paradigms that they think "Black President" is better than "My President Is Black"?

Are you really asking that question, Rev?

Long day.

Also in "Are you really asking that question, Rev?", WTFingF at Q-Tip placing so high? Are people so happy to see he finally got an album out that they'll take any old piece of garbage from him? Amplified was about eighteen times better and still wasn't one of the best few rap albums of that year.

q-tip album was cool

i mean if yr mad at the shitty placement of rap music i dont know that its helpful to shit on one of the few decent rap records that made it

Amplified was about eighteen times better and still wasn't one of the best few rap albums of that year.

Wrong.

right/wrong.

well if jeezy follows the normal course of these things, his next album will be overrated by people who slept on this one. so you can look forward to bitching about that in a year or two.

but his last album wasn't all that good. (the debut is all i'll ever need, i think.)

^^^Jeezy

Recession was a BIG letdown for me. Although there seems to be a lot of love for it on ILM.

Marcello raved about it, that i do remember.

really? all i can remember is him calling T.I.'s latest album of the year (and he wasn't too far off there, afaic).

no, he was very far off there.