Ween vs. Primus vs. Phish

When I saw them on the White Pepper tour they were playing House of Blues and then by Quebec they were a big jam-festival draw

have to admit that most of my affection for ween is based on those goofy, chaotic and pointedly lo-fi early albums, but they're better songwriters than they often get credit for. i'm not a real fan, but i can't deny that they've provided me with a fair amount of enjoyment over the years.

I like early Primus more than Ween. But as an objective outside, Ween has had the more solid career and string of great songs. Phish... I have nothing to say about them.

*outsideR

for some reason i went on wiki and found out that phish formed in 1983(!!)

voting for the only ones on the list that can actually write a song

xp: here is some perspective on how old phish is

http://forum.phish.net/thread.php?thread=1307527470

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Thank god.

::bass solo::

It kind of disturbs me now to think that these were probably three of my five favorite bands circa 1995. But Ween is probably the only that I've listened to and actually enjoyed in the last ten years.

Primus was def my favorite band ca. 1993-1999, but yeah, Ween holds up better

not everyone could stay up til midnight on sunday nights to watch 120 minutes

True but figuring out that I could sneak downstairs and watch it at low volume while sitting very close to the tv without waking my parents was a revelation.

Oh and Ween. I guess.

Ween is basically all the elements I hate about Zappa (the mean stoner humor, misogyny, "funny" genre pastiches) without the talent or the other amazing parts of Zappa

that said, someone made me a 2cd comp of theirs once that i've kept on my ipod and i think "what deener was talking about" is an all time classic song

Ween is basically all the elements I hate about Zappa (the mean stoner humor, misogyny, "funny" genre pastiches) without the talent or the other amazing parts of Zappa

― Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, August 8, 2012 11:33 AM (36 seconds ago) Bookmark

this is otm for me. really drives me up the wall when people rant and rave about how talented Ween are, fuck them.

like they are canny mimics of other people's styles...like i heard a song on the local college station once, and they really hit a lot of the songwriting quirks of thin lizzy and the thin lizzy sound

but yeah ppl act like they are AMAZING MUSICIANS and shit it's just like rmde compared to pretty much any jazz musician or zillions of rock dudes too

these appear to already be in the correct order, do i still have to vote

eh i actually think they are pretty talented, i mean yeah not jazz dork level or whatever maybe, but still some pretty solid chops there - a lot of it has to do with the fact that they arent supposed to be talented because they are glue huffers or w/e so people tend to go over the top wrt overtalking their skills. all three of these bands are actually full of talented dudes, but thats not really a measure of good or else we would all be throwing down for steve vai or tony mcalpine or some such bullshit

i honestly don't know who i'd pick in this...Phish are such a feeble band, good lord so much effort going into not rocking. trey is probably the least interesting "great guitar player" in history.

Primus...uh...i dunno, never grabbed me much the whole "bleepidy bloopidy bloop" slap bass stuff + scribbling on the walls w/lydian mode guitar stuff over it + oh lookee here i'm a crazy auctioneer prospecting for riffs singing really gets old

lord...so after all that maybe i'd even VOTE for week just because as shakey said they can write the occaissional song.

eh i actually think they are pretty talented, i mean yeah not jazz dork level or whatever maybe, but still some pretty solid chops there - a lot of it has to do with the fact that they arent supposed to be talented because they are glue huffers or w/e so people tend to go over the top wrt overtalking their skills. all three of these bands are actually full of talented dudes, but thats not really a measure of good or else we would all be throwing down for steve vai or tony mcalpine or some such bullshit

― O_o-O_O-o_O (jjjusten), Wednesday, August 8, 2012 10:43 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i mean i'm not saying they can't PLAY....and lord knows being able to play hasn't helped Phish...but yeah they are like solid rock band talented. maybe you're right that their fans over-estimate it or something....but i've heard dudes talk about Ween live like it's the first lineup of Mahavishnu Orchestra or some shit.

they admitted that they were never actually huffing Scotchgard iirc

oh yeah i know but the iconic ween fan vibe is that they are crazy drug hoovers so i just went with the legend thing

Ween is basically all the elements I hate about Zappa (the mean stoner humor, misogyny, "funny" genre pastiches) without the talent or the other amazing parts of Zappa

I see where this is coming from and I agree that many of Ween's albums are uneven but the main difference is that Ween generally knows when to shut up and rarely put stuff on their albums just to challenge their audience. Plus, most of the things you're complaining about stopped showing up on their albums once they hit like, 25. Zappa seemed to get worse as he aged. Also I don't know what to say if you don't think they've got talent, sure they're not jazz musicians (really, is that the metric we're using?), but Deaner really does have some stellar chops and Gene has such an incredible range. Their live lineup w/ Claude Coleman is one of the most electrifying bands I've ever seen. It's not about the fact that they can imitate Thin Lizzy, it's that they can do Thin Lizzy better than even Thin Lizzy can

Primus, cuz at one point I actually enjoyed their music (juinor high school). Also, lifetime pass for Les Claypool's audtioning for Metallica by playing the Isley Brothers.

Ween, man I hate this band. I saw them once in the early 2000s and live it was like Jimmy Buffett w/o the edge, they were certainly pleased with their laid back jams, all I could think was "isn't Ween supposed to be weird?".

Phish, oof.

It's not about the fact that they can imitate Thin Lizzy, it's that they can do Thin Lizzy better than even Thin Lizzy can

― frogbs, Wednesday, August 8, 2012 11:53 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

::breathes fire::

the more i think abt this the more i think this is an interesting triad because the first line of fan defense in all three cases is usually their musicianship/chops, if dream theater was in the running it would complete the set

It's not about the fact that they can imitate Thin Lizzy, it's that they can do Thin Lizzy better than even Thin Lizzy can

― frogbs, Wednesday, August 8, 2012 11:53 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

you fucking crumb. go wash your mouth out with soap.

i knew you'd have my back on that one

WYH CANT SOEM DUDE LET POELPE INJOY THINGS WHY YOU HATE NERDS SOME DUDE WHY

That's some frogBS.

xpost

i kinda wonder if there are any Ween fans that are really well versed in all the '70s-era stuff they pastiche

ha the biggest ween fan i can think of off the top of my head plays in an elo cover band so yeah some of them are

yeah i guess. it's somewhat true of the biggest Ween fan i knew in college to, but there are definitely a lot that are, like, SO impressed at how well they play the old country/soul/classic rock they never listen to.

truly blunted rhyme fiend (J0rdan S.) wrote this on thread letz talk abt shawty mane on board I Love Music on Oct 15, 2010

there needs to be a code written into ilx that bans whiney for three days anytime he submits a message that's a parody of someone in all caps

ha the biggest ween fan i can think of off the top of my head plays in an elo cover band so yeah some of them are

― O_o-O_O-o_O (jjjusten), Wednesday, August 8, 2012 11:02 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ha ELno?

I don't even get why ween would be appealing if you weren't pretty well versed in a lot of old music

lots of '90s lol pastiche masters like Beck and They Might Be Giants were popular with '80s babies that knew next to nothing about a lot of the pre-grunge source material

haha m@tt w/the hometown advantage. yep. xpost

i heard they were pretty fun

I never cared much about Ween until a friend played that song "Object" for me. It's quite brilliant.

I still don't own any of their records. There's no doubt that their best moments are in a humorous vein ie "Piss Up a Rope."

As for Primus, I do still pull out my old Frizzle Fry vinyl about once a year. It holds up, but sounded a lot more alien upon release.

They Might Be Giants would have swept this poll for me, even though I also haven't bought one of their albums since about 1990.

Dream Theater is a good call but honestly another huge gap in my knowledge... for good reason I suppose.

i kinda wonder if there are any Ween fans that are really well versed in all the '70s-era stuff they pastiche

uhh yes a lot of them in fact, I don't think you can really appreciate all that they do if you're not

there needs to be a code written into ilx that bans whiney for three days anytime he submits a message that's a parody of someone in all caps

hey whiney was defending your right to say nonsense about ween being a better band than thin lizzy afaict

yeah i guess. it's somewhat true of the biggest Ween fan i knew in college to, but there are definitely a lot that are, like, SO impressed at how well they play the old country/soul/classic rock they never listen to.

― some dude, Wednesday, August 8, 2012 12:05 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah i have observed that there is a certain type of music fan that equates "talent" with "being able to play in the style of different genres" and it is just so weirdly off-base to me.

Frizzle Fry and Suck On This are enough to make Primus worthwhile in my book. Some of their poppier stuff that followed is fun too, but didn't seem so seismically weird and life changing as those first two.

uhh yes a lot of them in fact, I don't think you can really appreciate all that they do if you're not

― frogbs, Wednesday, August 8, 2012 9:19 AM (2 seconds ago)

you can't talk that bullshit about thin lizzy and still expect anyone to respect whatever else you have to say on the subject

well tbf if i saw a dude flip from clawhammer fingerstyle to death metal shred riffs i would be impressed. it does take a certain kind of musical talent to pull that stuff off. xposts

yeah i am down w/the first 3 primus albums but it goes a little poorly from there. and the first 5 ween albums. my iinitial exposure to phish really was a dude in college playing me a 40 minute version of "bouncing round the room" that he had taped live at the college music venue and i was just not able to get high enough to manage it so i never volunteered again.

ween has a sense of craft and melody that the other two lack. i find it hard to imagine either of those two bands making an album as tight and satisfying as the mollusk (or white pepper.)

also, from my experience, ween fans are exactly the kinds of dudes who unabashedly love the 70s prog that the mollusk and quebec imitated.

first place i'd start with Thin Lizzy is Live at the High Voltage Festival 2011

but yeah on the real Lizzy is very unique because they were so multi-faceted and blessed with Lynott's voice, how many bands can recall Van Morrison or Springsteen at points and sound like proto-Iron Maiden at points? they straddle the line between metal and hard rock and just rock 'n roll and soul in a unique way....like for example, i'm listening to Live and Dangerous and they just went from a totally swinging stroll through the basically soul song "Dancing the Moonlight" with and extended sax solo from some dude in Graham fucking Parkers' band of all things, then the nexts thing is Massacre which sounds like the roots of NWOBHM

damn, that sounds almost as good as Ween

>:(

WheatusVEVO is killing btw

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

too many phish votes imo

anyway can I just say that, as a Ween fan who is intimately familiar with the oeuvre of Thin Lizzy...

this is a silly thread.

i bet u voted for phish

:)

And for the other 7 of you who voted Phish, don't forget to mosey on over to live phish where they've been giving away these "Live Bait" samplers of great performances from past tours. Because they've been selectively assembled, you aren't stuck worry about whether a show is going to be consistently good or whether Trey smoked crack before the second set.

congrats to Tenacious D on winning the poll

wow. I can't listen to this stuff. I think last year when I had that phish-revival, well maybe that was a "once-a-decade" kinda thing. yeee-ouch.