Frank Ocean - Channel Orange (2012)

the usher album has tracks as good as most of the stuff on channel orange but frank's album is an actual ALBUM, as opposed to a bunch of disimilar sounding tracks squashed into a patty

The FO album has problems, but ... are there actually people who think R. Kelly's is better? Like, really?

It's autopilot even by his lazy standards.

maybe that's rockist, idk. but it matters to me in this instance. the scope & flow of frank's album is impressive to me in a way that usher doesn't even approach.

is Frank's more of an album because you can barely remember individual tracks when it ends

the usher album has tracks as good as most of the stuff on channel orange but frank's album is an actual ALBUM, as opposed to a bunch of disimilar sounding tracks squashed into a patty

I don't disagree with this assessment of the difference between the two album's approaches but I have played Usher's squished patty multiple times and mostly enjoyed listening to Frank's coherent vision once and had zero desire to revisit it.

there are (arguably multiple) r kelly and usher albums that are better than channel orange. but neither of them came out in 2012.

def a classic whiney troll, but ultimately plainly incorrect.

Usher did, IMO (wouldn't know about Kells)

― PITILESS LIVE SHOW (DJP), Monday, July 16, 2012 12:35 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

the usher album flew under the radar!? i mean compared to when his albums were preceded by songs as big as "yeah" and "omg" maybe but by any other definition no way.

i think that's a response to my post refuting whiney's tweet

haha yes, I should have quoted

ha ok, lack of xposts confused me

That tweet has more to do with feeling superior to hipsters than it does with the relative quality of those records.

kinda interesting/sad to read that Andre vetoed a Big Boi verse on "Pink Matter"

i think the kellz album is kinda autopilot AND better than frank's album - idk praising it for its "scope and flow", those are just grand-sounding words, i don't get what you actually mean by them, i don't hear anything impressive in that regard. it's a coherent album, sure, and usher's is a mess, but the best usher songs this year are so far ahead of frank's that it's not even close.

not that i'd single any of these three dudes out in a hypothetical "best r&b of 2012" sum-up

i just think it's lol when people who barely pay attention to a genre get all "droppin knowledge" on people who do so even less to namecheck 2 of its biggest stars currently in a long slow decline

The thing about Kells album that is so infuriating is that it would be abt 1,000,000 times better if he'd actually had real orchestration behind the songs and not his lazy synths. I mean, even wose then with Love Letter, it feels like his laziness is crippling him wrt the sound he wants to make.

^^^

The thing about Kells album that is so infuriating is that it would be abt 1,000,000 times better if he'd actually had real orchestration behind the songs and not his lazy synths.

It would even be better if he wrote songs.

Actually, more to the point, it would even be better if someone else wrote the songs. Anyone else.

idk praising it for its "scope and flow", those are just grand-sounding words, i don't get what you actually mean by them, i don't hear anything impressive in that regard.

well by scope & flow i'm talking mostly about the fact that the album is generally coherent & composed in a way that, yeah, seems grand and epic to me. it's not overt in that aspect, but it's still those are important qualities to me. practically no song on channel orange could've been on his mixtape, and i get the sense that will hold true for whatever his next album is, & i think that's often a hallmark of classic albums. songs on usher's album could've been on any usher album since 2003 and probably til 2016. i'm glad that most of them are generally pretty good and some are outright great but as a whole i'm now bowled over or anything. i think the playlist-aspect of usher's album is major strike against it.

well one album being different from the next is not necessarily an artistic achievement, a lot of cats trend-chasing the sound of the year are gonna make very different albums from year to year but in a completely different way

sure. all i'm saying is that you can clearly see the DNA of his old songs in his new album, but the new songs are very much in their own place, or whatever. agreed that that's not an artistic achievement in and of itself, but there's, like, a simultaneous step forwards and sideways that i'd say also applies to, idk, aaliyah's self-title & voodoo.

i pretty much agree with you w/r/t coherency etc but the quality of the songs (ESP compared to aaliyah and d'angelo!!!! seriously!) is just...not there, without even getting into his performative flaws. like...really? his songwriting is not very interesting, the lyrics are frequently clunkers, the production is timorous and only occasionally satisfying (eg "pyramids")...

maybe the production suits my crappy work headphones but "timorous" was not the adjective that came to mind when I listened to the album

idk on first listen the production really appealed to me... i think it's really warm and open. it breathes.

the songs hit me on subsequent listens.

i think there's stuff that's immediately hooky because it tries to be -- "thinking of you" & "pyramids" being the obvious examples. the meat of the album isn't like that... it's more about the listener immersing.

some of the lyrics clunk but when he's writing well i think hes a great lyricist

that sfj piece is so weird. i feel like half of it was cut out in editing or something.

I think SFJ was on the plane three aisles down. If I'd read his article before boarding I would have asked him to be escorted from the aircraft.

i think there's stuff that's immediately hooky because it tries to be -- "thinking of you" & "pyramids" being the obvious examples. the meat of the album isn't like that... it's more about the listener immersing.

― J0rdan S., Monday, July 16, 2012 1:34 PM (2 hours ago)

so this is gonna be like the drake album :(

i think this album is pretty tremendous.

ain't felt this way on a first listen since take care *winks*

― J0rdan S., Tuesday, July 10, 2012 12:41 PM (6 days ago) Bookmark

I kind of feel like R. Kelly's midi orchestration is such an intrinsic element of his style that it's hard to imagine him without it. It's part of the essential suspension of disbelief that one must take with him. The problem with Write Me Back is the lack of memorable songs.

Anyway, anyone who doesn't like Channel Orange is stupid doo doo dumb. *puts "Super Rich Kids" on repeat*

I don't mind Kels' retro nuevo at all but the new one is a rush job.

Don't think I've gone a week since late February without hearing a Write Me Back single several times between three stations.

The thing about Kells album that is so infuriating is that it would be abt 1,000,000 times better if he'd actually had real orchestration behind the songs and not his lazy synths. I mean, even wose then with Love Letter, it feels like his laziness is crippling him wrt the sound he wants to make.

Seem to recall seeing the names of over a dozen string players (plus Larry Gold as arranger) listed in the credits.

Didn't Usher debut at number one? What radar are we talking about?

I love "Feelin' Single" I gotta say.

Don't think I've gone a week since late February without hearing a Write Me Back single several times between three stations.

All I can say is I envy you for living somewhere where R. & B. still gets played on the radio.

I love "Feelin' Single" I gotta say.

If nothing else (and that is the case), "Feelin Single" helped me hear how much of "Lovely Day" there is in the verses of "Love on Top."

'thinking about you' is a great shit karaoke jam

do doubt but elle varner 'refill' is the champion shit karaoke/shower singalong jam of the year

*no doubt

tpp otm

'climax' all the way doggs

i always sing "climax" as "just show me the carfax"

ursh is the absolute king of the artform it has to be said

lookin 4 myself nothing short of singalonga tour de force, fuck the haters

'climax' does also get some shower falsetto action chez tpp

i saw some dude slay "climax" at karaoke recently. falsetto game on point.

wtg ship

thanks guys

also played drums

has it been emphasized enough re: that whiney tweet that r kelly and usher are THE r&b of choice, almost tiresomely so, for hipsters

yes