Frank Ocean - Channel Orange (2012)

kele -- or, at least bloc party -- was more famous in the UK when he came out than frank is in the US now (or at least prior to his coming out), and as far as i know the UK can be as intolerable of gays as the US can

I don't think that's what's happening here? It's more about who Kele's audience is than who Kele is.

In what way does that matter? It's not like super flamboyant drag queen Sylvester was alienating the disco audience with his act.

Bloc Party had a pretty decent US profile -- #12 and #18 debuts on the album chart. FO's album will debut higher but i dunno if by a huge amount.

xxpost

No denying this is true, but hasn't the UK had a longer history of out gay pop stars than the States? Like, i believe George Michael was still having hits over there when he was nothing but tabloid fodder over here.

also the implication that the world of indie rock was a safer place for a coming out than the rap/r&b world is possibly true, but there's probably a smaller gulf than people are implying, i think.

bloc party were a big band in the UK and popular amongst, you know, straight white males who think oasis & blur are the best bands of all time. not exactly the most welcoming of arms.

Sylvester's audience was different from Frank Ocean's, too. xxp

Tbh, I hadn't considered that the audience for indie in the UK is considerably more "laddish" than here.

man I forgot how good "I Still Remember" is.

Just about the only keeper from that second album imo.

I think, considering that the original comment was "first black male musician to come out since Sylvester", using the perceived hostility of the audience as a barometer for deciding whether someone "counts" or not should make you examine some of the assumptions you're making

tonex was honestly the first name i thought of but the pop gospel background makes for a different and much less heartening story. dude more or less had to switch genres and change his name. coming out was devastating to his career.

also the implication that the world of indie rock was a safer place for a coming out than the rap/r&b world is possibly true, but there's probably a smaller gulf than people are implying, i think.

bloc party were a big band in the UK and popular amongst, you know, straight white males who think oasis & blur are the best bands of all time. not exactly the most welcoming of arms.

― J0rdan S., Friday, 6 July 2012 18:24 (16 minutes ago) Permalink

I really don't think we're that fussed in the UK. I can not think of any equivalent of the repulsive "I'm not going to listen to his music anymore" reaction. Also UK indie rock is very much conditioned to ambiguous sexuality - re: Morrissey, Chris Martin's confessions he thought he was gay, etc. Also Kele sort of came out in 2007 before officially came out in 2010, which made the whole thing sort of a non-story.

is the tonex/b.slade stuff any good? anyone know? plan to check it out, but just curious...

what amazes me is that no one on ilx has come out as gay or bi or even black i mean what are the chances

I really don't think we're that fussed in the UK. I can not think of any equivalent of the repulsive "I'm not going to listen to his music anymore" reaction. Also UK indie rock is very much conditioned to ambiguous sexuality - re: Morrissey, Chris Martin's confessions he thought he was gay, etc. Also Kele sort of came out in 2007 before officially came out in 2010, which made the whole thing sort of a non-story.

― danzig, Friday, July 6, 2012 2:49 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark

fair enough. but for whatever it's worth, i was talking about his coming out in 07 (i remember it being fairly explicit) & something like "i still remember"

also as it pertains to the repulsive "I'm not going to listen to his music anymore" reaction i don't think that reaction has been very prevalent and it's only been illuminated (imo) because of the culture on the internet (aided by the visibility fo twitter) of people actively seeking out random people saying terrible/dumb shit so that they can point and say "hey, look at the terrible/dumb thing this random person said"

i'm sure if twitter was around in 07 when kele first came out there would've been similar reactions available at your fingertips if you so pleased

didn't even know that kele had an official coming out in 2010, actually.

I think, considering that the original comment was "first black male musician to come out since Sylvester", using the perceived hostility of the audience as a barometer for deciding whether someone "counts" or not should make you examine some of the assumptions you're making

― I see you, Pineapple Teef (DJP), Friday, July 6, 2012 2:35 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it wasn't a perceived hostility thing, i promise! i was more questioning whether or not it was the most 'analogous example' as j0rdan put it.

my indie comment was meant to imply that Frank Ocean has a bigger profile than Bloc Party/Kele and thus this is a bigger deal than that was. which - like rev i forgot that 'indie' in the UK is actually more laddish than bloc party's audience was in north america, and i suppose i also overestimated frank's popularity/underestimated bloc party's in north america? (also: kele came out well into his career, so he was also approaching it from a potentially more stable situation. not to diminish anything, just i don't know how 'analogous' it is to someone coming out right at the beginning of his career two weeks before an album release.)

the UK vs US thing was intended to be a comment about perceived hostility, and maybe i'm wrong about that and i underestimate homophobia in the UK, but while I'm sure there are plenty of homophobic dicks and gaybashing etc. i still think that the UK, *culturally* doesn't seem to have the same intensity of feelings about queerness. i'd say the same thing about canada.

neither country is a perfect gay haven, but i just can't imagine media getting worked up about a musician's sexuality in canada, and i've always kind of subconsciously extended that to the UK.

and i know being defensive is totally NAGL, but i really didn't intend to comment on the audience for hip hop specifically, and if i seemed to imply that indie is more inherently friendly to queer folk, i'm sorry, because that's some racist bullshit.

i don't really think frank is in a totally diff stage of his career than kele, fwiw. both have come out essentially in the run-up to their second albums.

didn't even know that kele had an official coming out in 2010, actually.

yeah, exposed his bum to butt magazine and all

also, david mcalmont, people.

and, yeah, for all of the highlighting of people saying dumb homophobic shit, i think the real story here is just how generally POSITIVE the reaction has been from most quarters.

a lot of it is still tied up on labelling and binary notions of sexuality and crypto-racist concern trolling about his potential album sales and conspiracy theories about it being good PR, but i can't think of a single public figure in the music industry who hasn't reacted supportively and if anyone that big reacted negatively they've kept it to themselves.

it would be nice if a lot of the reactions weren't that weird sexuality-blind/color-blind "it doesn't matter if he sleeps with men or women or sheep as long as he makes music you like' because it DOES matter for him and for people who look up to him and are empowered by him etc. but generally it's more good than gross, from where i'm sitting.

and yeah, that butt magazine thing was kind of lol.

"first black male musician to come out since Sylvester"

I didn't even realize the tangent about Kele was connected to this (obviously false) assertion.

britishes dont count

anyway, maybe this adds some subtext to "lovecrimes"

but probably not

are bi people part of the illuminati y/n

Love everyone talking about the size of FO's profile when this now 400+ post thread had only about 20 responses pre-announcement.

tbf, Frank Ocean has been covered in a lot of other threads. This one was particularly about the new album/material and only two tracks had been heard at that point.

album wasn't out yet! isn't out yet! pyramids is lovely tho

Fair enough. (fwiw, second half of "Pyramids" is easily one of the top songs of the year for me so far.)

i think that becomes a valid argument if this is all anyone wants to talk about once the album leaks is OMG h3 1s so g4YYYYYY11111!111

I now realise where I've heard "Thinkin Bout You" before. Somebody here posted Bridget Kelly's "Thinking About Forever." Ace song.

butt magazine

just realized i'd also heard "thinkin bout you" somewhere before, also that i can really not stand his falsetto

so has Tevin Campbell made any statement since his arrest?

He just posted this: http://frankocean.tumblr.com/post/26646279205

I'm listening to it now, so I don't know what track it is yet.

"sweet life"

okay, it's "Sweet Life"

Frank must have been following the thread. "Imma give them another song to talk about."

Not sure about the mango peaches HDTV bits but that chorus with the horns is killer.

just realized i'd also heard "thinkin bout you" somewhere before, also that i can really not stand his falsetto

― some dude, Friday, July 6, 2012 3:43 PM (42 minutes ago) Bookmark

i think the little creak in his falsetto when he sings that chorus is really kinda sweet

"sweet life" being co-produced by pharrell makes sense & i'm not sure i mean that in a 100% complimentary fashion

"sweet life"

― i'm a housewife, an artist, and a snow leopard (

I thought this said "Sweet Wife" lol

street wife?

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRcpXI9wykkozlOVAjKSDW9kZRYzRtN51-qeZOgg7n3MJhMbRhUkr15pVbJ

I love that outro guitar and electric piano.

the rest is innocuous

sounds like old nerd

it's a bit more fleshed out sonically than old NERD imo but yeah