Frank Ocean - Channel Orange (2012)

Lots of people looking for the story to mean something else, it seems - like he's talking about himself, his music, his car, God.

But Tyler and Earl's reactions seem to confirm he's talking about his sexuality, don't they?

But Tyler and Earl's reactions seem to confirm he's talking about his sexuality, don't they?

I'd say so.

Um. Yes.

As does the fact that he published it early to respond to rumours that had been going around for a few days, and the fact that if he fell in love with his music or God or his car, it is highly unlikely that any of those things would have a girlfriend and thus be unable to reciprocate his love.

Alright man, I agree. I'm not questioning what he's saying myself. Just taking it all in, thinking out loud, etc.

yeah, fair. sorry! wasn't peeved at you.

trying to wrap my mind around how people on the internet read that and think "this is a dude passionately declaring his love for his car."

sigh.

Easy. People now find themselves in the awkward position of having previously praised someone they're now afraid of.

man. i have such a hard time wrapping my head around that. even for the three years of undergrad i spent closeted, when i was on some level terrified of out gay dudes, i was still friends with a bunch of them.

the weirdest for me have been the comments saying "i still respect the guy and like his music but won't be able to relate to the songs as much now that i know they're written about dudes"

which... half of them are totally neutral songs? idgi.

I'm not saying homophobia (either latent or aggressive) is okay, but I know where it comes from. Be it religion-inspired or the macho culture that permeates middle and lower class (and, hell, upper class) male youth, an extra jolt of assured heterosexuality is earned every time a joke or slam is made against anything different.

Lots of people grow out of religion and everybody grows out of youth, but a lot of that stuff hangs around for some and keeps getting passed on.

Sure. I didn't mean whence homophobia? I meant like - how radically altered can someone's experience of a song they previously loved be? If they've given a song their own meaning and invested their feelings and experiences into it, the intent of Ocean in writing it is meaningless.

If I had to identify with the singer of songs I love to take something out of them, I wouldn't have that many favourite songs, given the lack of gay dudes. There are tons of love songs that click with me where I just mentally gender flip either the performer or the audience or where i mediate the sentiments of the song through me or whatever and I don't think it's a way of listening specific to queers. Like, surely straight guys like love songs by women sometimes and don't just view themselves as the intended recipient?

I can't really engage in that whole discussion because of how little I pay attention to lyrics in general, and even less in the realm of love songs (which typically only mean anything to me when I'm either falling for or getting over a girl). But yeah, I guess for some people it's a very big deal.

I imagine for these people it's like watching all six seasons of LOST only to find out they'd died and were going to heaven, and then they look back on all six seasons and get all FUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOU.

nothing really to add here, just that the thunking literalism of people saying I CAN'T RELATE is dismaying, & the guy's thank you notes are really moving. so psyched for this record.

It reminds me of youtube comments I once read about Smalltown Boy written by people who grew up loving the song and only now found out what it's about, thus proceeding to actually blame Jimmy Somerville for ruining one of their favourite songs.

Like, how fucking insecure are you that you not only have to dissociate yourself from it but also that person, as if they're somehow outside their own lives and work and at fault for ruining it by infecting it with their sexuality.

nothing really to add here, just that the thunking literalism of people saying I CAN'T RELATE is dismaying, & the guy's thank you notes are really moving.

^^

i don't have a lot invested in Ocean as an artist or w/e but that post was gorgeously written

(and i find it pretty upsetting to think that people don't believe in universals of human emotion, bcz i am a massive hippy)

what a terrifically moving piece of writing. jesus.

where are the people saying they can't relate? checked his facebook page and the comments were 90% positive.

Speech Debelle ‏@speechdebelle
Frank Ocean didn't "come out", he just let us in. Letting people in is what a true artist does. He is honest and brave.

trying to repress the hey i'll quote a stupid thing i read on the internet urge itt, because that there are people missing the point probably doesn't need to trample into this otherwise nice moment. but i was flicking through the thread on the kanyetothe forum, & it's split between "who cares", which is obviously fine, & "i hope he doesn't write a song about a guy".
xp

yeah just trying to ascertain whether that kind of response is significantly large or just, like, mouth breathers on twitter and that kanye forum

yeah i think so. there isn't like a dismayed sasha frere jones thinkpiece about the liner notes or anything. probably encouraging if facebook is relatively normal though.

" By the time I realized I was in love, it was malignant. It was hopeless. There was no escaping, no negotiation with the feeling. No choice. It was my first love, it changed my life"

lots of know how liberating and horrifying that first love was

how many hours has this news been out there for there to even be 'thinkpieces'

just kidding around

right ok

They'll be along in a minute.

true

is this the most high profile coming out (of some sort) in the history of rap/r&b?

hmmm probably

assuming he has a profile

i couldn't think of anything else. obviously, it's not a long list.

for a dude to come out -- even as bi, if that's what it is -- w/in a year of guesting on a kanye/jay-z album is pretty remarkable

before this, the most notable gay hip-hop/r&b artist was............ latifah? and she's not even out. missy? her either.

i couldn't even name a male, but maybe someone's slipping my mind

Jermaine Stewart?

luther is the biggest who "everyone knew" but thats obv not the same

for a second there i thought you meant campbell and i was all "wait, what?"

deep cover

meshell ndegéocello? i don't know whether she was out from the start, i assume so

For a second there I thought you meant Tevin Campbell

and why not

OMG is Missy gay?? :-D

The idea of all of her sex raps being abt women makes me super giddy

Is there anyone officially out besides Syd?

Oh and if we're still counting Nina Sky as R&B as opposed to pop, one of them is married to a woman, but that only happened post-fame.

I can't think of any successful out female rappers. Latifah's still not really out. Danced around it with those comments at her Pride concert, but denied it after the fact. (Didn't deny being gay. Just said that she wasn't coming out. Kind of masterful non-denial denial)

wasn't that Vandross' approach too?

Latifah spent about six minutes singing "heal me, Jesus heal me" over and over again in Joyful Noise. She ain't never coming out.

Hilariously enough a lot of the reaction I've seen on twitter today is basically "Good for him! When are Ne-Yo and Miguel coming out?" and I can't decide whether those comments are supposed to be vaguely homophobic or if it's just generally accepted wisdom that both of them are in the closet.

xp I am sorta stunned that you would even know that

Speech Debelle ‏@speechdebelle
Frank Ocean didn't "come out", he just let us in. Letting people in is what a true artist does. He is honest and brave.

― gonna send him to outer space, to hug another face (NickB), Wednesday, July 4, 2012 6:23 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ya good on him, well done

latifahs not really in the rap game anymore

Hilariously enough a lot of the reaction I've seen on twitter today is basically "Good for him! When are Ne-Yo and Miguel coming out?" and I can't decide whether those comments are supposed to be vaguely homophobic or if it's just generally accepted wisdom that both of them are in the closet

no word about Kanye?

Brenton Duvall‏@BrentonRules

I'm definitely takin the day off from twitter to avoid the frank ocean comments and the People acting like they've always loved odd future