XTC C/D S/D

i) the kid.

ii) "a big reduction in amount of tears" makes me wince for some reason.

iii) Bad things happen therefore there is no God seems to me a crass spiritual viewpoint ;)

Pretty tune though.

But now, it's really only critics and Internet goons without our finely-tuned sensibilities who hate on "Dear God." Maybe it's a British ("what are you yelling about?") vs. American ("subtlety my ass") thing.

I think this is compensated for by the "I don't mean a big reduction in the price of beer" line, which is pretty funny.

Tom, I think the enormous amount of suffering that is built into the world is a very good reason for believing that there is no God of a certain sort (all powerful and all good or if "good" is too problematic than "all powerful and moderately merciful").

(I think I'm just going back to Rockist Scientist, since everyone seems to like that. But in many ways I'm not a rockist (though I do like John Lennon's solo work a lot more than most of you apparently), and I'm definitely not a scientist.)

Well clearly there's a god, it's just that it's a *totally insane and unpredictable* kinda god.

Cripes...there are SO MANY to choose from, but my faves:

"Respectable Street"
"Living Through Another Cuba" -- especially a live version recorded at Emerald City, Philadelphia courtesy of a bootleg
"Travels in Nihilon" - XTC practically covering Killing Joke
"Outside World"
"This Is Pop"
"Science Friction"
"No Thugs in Our House"
"Crowded Room"
"Radios in Motion"
"Vanishing Girl"
"25 O'Clock"
"Wake Up"
"Across This Ant Heap"
"Real By Reel"
"When You're Near Me I Have Difficulty"
"Crossed Wires"
....oh, fuck, and loads more.

And then if one were to add omniscience (which would include foreknowledge), that raises even more problems. (Why would God start this thing going, knowing that it would result in so much misery?)

This is Gnosticism, and there was an awful lot of it around when the Bible was being written, it's just that the stuff got excised and increasingly edited out as time went on.

I think the problem of evil is an excellent reason for not liking or trusting or worshipping God, I just don't think it's a good reason for not believing he exists.

In Gnosticism, or at least some forms of it, the Creator is a lesser entity than God. The creator isn't really God, and is seen in a negative light.

I like Isaac Luria's account of creation as a botched job, too, though I certainly don't believe in it. (Also, he wrenches a good deal of positive meaning out of it.)

(Tom I still think the problem of evil is a good reason for not thinking that a certain type of God exists, a God with certain specific qualities, including compassion. However, I agree that it's not an adequate reason for denying the existence of any God whatsoever. I'm agnostic about that.

Omniscience still matters, since God would know who is going to suffer eternally in the after life. He would know ahead of time that millions of souls will suffer eternally as a result of His creating Adam and Eve and so forth.)

(I don't believe in God btw)

Oh yeah absolutely - it's impossible to excise these kinds of theological subtleties entirely, and there are all sorts of places where gnostic ideas overlap with traditional scripture. The Romans passage you cite I'm unfamiliar with, but the case you make with it makes sense. It follows the thread of the entire material universe being "fallen" and "corrupt" - with salvation being a transcendence of physicality (this is vaguely neo-Platonist as well...)

"In Gnosticism, or at least some forms of it, the Creator is a lesser entity than God. The creator isn't really God, and is seen in a negative light."

Right - my understanding is that it's a part of the godhead which separated itself (out of vanity, lust for power, etc.) and then positioned itself as God over the material world, with its archons (Yaldaboath, etc.) serving as overlords for humanity, raping Eve, etc. Man, I love this stuff.

ps aft-knowledge = "touch my bum/this is life"

Search:
"Helicopter"
"When You're Near Me, I Have Difficulty"
"Ten Feet Tall"
"Rocket From a Bottle"
"Towers of London"
"Burning With Optimism's Flames"
"Yacht Dance"
"Knuckle Down"
"Love on a Farmboy's Wages"
"This World Over"
"Everyday Story of Smalltown"
"That's Really Super, Supergirl"
"Season Cycle"
"Mayor of Simpleton"
"King for a Day"
"Chalkhills and Children"
"Ballad of Peter Pumpkinhead"
"Crocodile"
"I'd Like That"
"Knights in Shining Karma"

(OT: XTC may, for all I know, be bigger in the U.S. than they ever were in the UK, but I hope non-American readers won't come away with the idea that they are a big mainstream hit in the U.S. When I was in high school (in the early 80's) I knew only one or two other people who listened to them. College would have been another matte, entirely. I don't think I've ever heard them on a commercial rock station. I think I know what modern rock station Jess mentioned above and it wasn't around for very long. Anyway, folks who haven't dabbled a bit with college radio and indie aren't that likely to know about them.)

Until the phenomenon that was "Dear God". "Skylarking" was a major breakthrough for the U.S. audience, and "Oranges and Lemons" was even huger. It kinda decayed quickly after that, though.. but I think XTC's U.S. fans certainly outweight the UK ones overall, i gather.

In any case, "Dear God" makes me cringe now, but if it weren't for this song, most of us (in the U.S. moreso) probably wouldn't be talking about the band or caring about them today.

And a abridged list of mostly forgotten gems by XTC:

"Desert Island"
"Roads Girdle the Globe"
"Rip Van Reuben"
"Terrorism"
"Neon Shuffle"
"Battery Brides"
"Paper and Iron"
"Snowman"
"Love on a Farmboy's Wages"
"Red Brick Dream"
"The Meeting Place"
"Frivolous Tonight"
"Harvest Festival"
"Standing In For Joe"

Generally (and I know the first one was a Partridge composision) I feel like Colin's composisions are usually underrated. For me, he is the best songwriter AND singer in the band.

i remember hearing "Dear God" a lot on canadian modern rock stations and seeing the video more than a few times on MuchMusic, but then Sarah Maclachlan covered it and the original was never heard round these parts again.

I'm in *HYSTERICS*

XTC have always been good, but it is only from "Skylarking" onwards (and I mean all the time, until present) that they have been absolutely excellent.

Those albums all suffer from bad production (even for me, it's not all about melodies, even those melodies are more important than anything else), although "Black Sea" does contain a lot of truly ace songs.

They sounds fine to me. Maybe it's all that tar in your ears.

although "Black Sea" does contain a lot of truly ace songs.

Mighty big of you.

is there a Clear Channel outlet in Norway, Geir?

Those albums all suffer from bad production (even for me, it's not all about melodies, even those melodies are more important than anything else) ...

alright now, Geir, some of yer statements (like the one above about Beefheart) i can chalk up to taste. but saying that Drums & Wires, Black Sea, or English Settlement suffer from "bad production"? i mean really -- are you from Pluto and have therefore have a totally different auditory process than Earthlings or something?

though one thing i wonder about -- how those here (who shall remain nameless) who slag elvis costello, yet love the "Drums & Wires/Black Sea/English Settlement" troika. i mean, at that stage of their careers they were definitely influenced by this year's model-EC (to my ears, anyway). but what's up with that, i wonder?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/

Cool, thanks, was having trouble searching for that

Youtube living-room cover dude nails it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGy1_cHQHcc

Aw, that is nice, I like that

"Dave Gregory is the new boy"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46MllXtIcq0

Ok I may have come around on Smartest Monkeys, aided by my newfound ability to mishear the chorus as some nonsense syllables. That choppy guitar is pretty damn good. Even most bad XTC songs are good (except for "My Weapon").

Listening to the Andy Partridge produced version of Blur's Sunday Sunday and it has a very strong Dukes/Good man Albert Brown feel, it's good!

Where?

Indeed! I've been absolutely dying to hear these sessions for years!

They're on the new Blur Box set, three tracks 'Coping' especially is really great.

So you have a review copy then? HMMMMMM.

a Hmmm Hmmmm?

Nah, nothing sinister, my other half is involved with the project.

ah, that's not sinister enough..

I'm a good scout generally, occasionally I really want to splurge about stuff that I'm told about but can't, not being able to talk about the Pink Floyd reissue stuff was *killing* me all last year.

Can you play it over the phone then?

Oh sure :)