Frank Zappa: Classic or Dud?

I dunno - the original version of "We're Only In It For the Money" is pretty horrible, really

sonically, I mean

Would like somebody to explain me the difference between remixing and remastering in the context of this news. When FZ did the CD releases of Ruben and the Jets and WOIIFTM with new bass & drum tracks, it's safe to say he did new mixes. There are fairly radical differences in LP and CD mixes of Hot Rats. But I imagine that most of the CD catalogue consisted of digital transfer of the original vinyl masters, right, without much fiddling around?

You have it right, Remastering is tracking down the best possible format of the final mixes of an album (in Zappa's case probably 1/2 or 1/4 inch analog tape reels and adding equalisation and/or compression & limiting to get the best overall sound and dynamics onto whichever format the recording is going to end up on. Of course the potential abuse of the process is a big issue in the digital age.

Remixing is loading the original unmixed master tapes onto whatever the relevant playback machine would be and repeating the process of mixing the album from scratch.

The regular cds of Freak Out have a bunch of digital echo Frank added in the 80s. The reissue entitled MOFO has the og mix.

I remember reading that he apparently dicked about with recordings other than Hot Rats and WOIIFTM too, that's where the UMRK Approved master tag came in.

I dunno - the original version of "We're Only In It For the Money" is pretty horrible, really

the version on cd with added slap bass is a whole new level of awful though

hmmm, i seem to recall that the mixes of a lot of those 90s reissues had been futzed w/ by Zappa? wonder if these are the "original" mixes or whatever.

"futzed" is putting it mildly.

Reissues

In 1984, Zappa prepared a remix of Cruising with Ruben & the Jets for its compact disc reissue and the vinyl box set The Old Masters I. The remix featured new rhythm tracks recorded by bassist Arthur Barrow and drummer Chad Wackerman, much as the 1984 remix of We're Only in It for the Money had featured. Zappa stated "The master tapes for Ruben and the Jets were in better shape, but since I liked the results on We're Only in it For the Money, I decided to do it on Ruben too. But those are the only two albums on which the original performances were replaced. I thought the important thing was the material itself."[2]

After the remixing was announced, a $13 million lawsuit was filed against Zappa by Jimmy Carl Black, Bunk Gardner and Don Preston, who were later joined by Ray Collins, Art Tripp and Motorhead Sherwood, increasing the claim to $16.4 million, stating that they had received no royalties from Zappa since 1969.[2]

In 2009, the original mix of the album was released as part of a compilation entitled Greasy Love Songs.[6]

zappa was so nuts about that sort of thing, it seems. i remember reading something about the creation of "shut and play your guitar" (i think) where he would put guitar solos from, say, 1974 into a recording from 1981.

He would lift guitar tracks from live recordings and drop them into studio based stuff, he did a whole track by layering elements from different recordings, Tink Runs Amok? He called it Xenochrony iirc.

XENOCHRONY! Exciting. Bands that never were.

"Rubber Shirt," from Sheik Yerbouti:

SPECIAL NOTE: The bass part is extracted from
a four track master of a performance from Goteborg,
Sweden 1974 which I had Patrick O"Hearn overdub on
a medium tempo guitar solo track in 4/4. The noted
chosen were more or less specified during the overdub
session, and so it was not completely an improvised
"bass solo." A year and a half later, the bass track was
peeled off the Swedish master and transferred to one
track of another studio 24 track master for a slow song
in 11/4. The result of this experimental re-synchronization
(the same technique was used on the Zoot Allures
album in "Friendly Little Finger") is the piece you are
listening to. All of the sensitive, interesting interplay
between the bass and drums never actually happened ...
also note, the guitar solo section of the song "Yo' Mama"
on side four was done the same way.

One of my favorite Sheik Yerbouti tracks.

I was just to talking to a big Zappaphile firend of mine, and he mentioned that some of the other "futzing" was undoing vintage edit jobs done to fit lp time constraints. He cited these two (and was only partially wrong):

Wiki on Hot Rats:

In 1987 Zappa remixed Hot Rats for re-issue on Compact Disc. "Willie the Pimp" is edited differently during the introduction and guitar solo. "The Gumbo Variations" has 4 minutes of additional material including an introduction and guitar and saxophone solo sections which were cut from the vinyl LP version. Piano and flute which were buried the LP mix of "Little Umbrellas" are prominent on the CD. Other differences include significant changes to the overall ambiance and dynamic range. The original mix was reissued in 2009 as a limited edition audiophile LP by Classic Records.

Wiki on Weasels...:

The CD version of the album features different versions of "Didja Get Any Onya?" and "Prelude to the Afternoon of a Sexually Aroused Gas Mask", which featured music edited out of the LP versions. Some of this extra music was used (in a different studio recording) as the backing track for "The Blimp" on the Captain Beefheart album Trout Mask Replica, produced by Frank Zappa.

the version on cd with added slap bass is a whole new level of awful though

― zappi

I was trying to youtube some songs off it a few years back, and the only versions that came up were from this, which I hadn't been aware of before, and I was seriously appalled. Especially since the original WOIIFTM is one of my all-time faves.

What he did to "Ruben & the Jets" was criminal

But it was his music, I suppose he could do what he liked with it

I was happy when the Family Trust rectified the Reuben redux last year.

But it was his music, I suppose he could do what he liked with it

― Tom D (Tom D.)

the crimes of george lucas ('90s on)

I was happy when the Family Trust rectified the Reuben redux last year.

They did? I must have missed this!

They released it as Greasy Love Songs.

http://www.zappa.com/fz/discography/2010greasylovesongs.html

The version of WOIIFTM that I first heard was the one with the new bass and drums, so for a long time I thought that was the original version. When I finally heard the real original I was quite shocked at the difference. I still hear the altered one as being the "right" one even though I know that's not right.

I used to think there were things to like about the 1984 mix, but...naaah. I don't think I've ever heard the original vinyl. I'd like to check it out sometime if there's a digital rip floating around somewhere, and compare it to the 1993 remix/remaster.

one thing I like about the 1984 version is that it restored some pieces from the original recording that had been censored out by the record company

I wish there was a version of the original mixed with those excised bits added back in

original mix

Isn't that just that "don't come in me in me" is backwards on the original, forwards on the remix? I can't recall other instances.

There's also a verse in Mother People with the line "Shut your fucking mouth about the length of my hair" that's also backwards on the original.

Ah, yeah. Listening to Absolutely Free at the moment. Man, "Duke Of Prunes" marries such a beautiful melody to some of the most bizarre lyrics...

Its been about five years, maybe time again for me to dip my toes into Zappa. My last few attempts have been pretty unsuccessful, I seem to admire him more than I actually like his work.

So many eras, so many styles, so much sorting the chaff to find the wheat. I used to listen to him a lot more than I do now, but every once in a while I'll just browse youtube and find something cool.

Maybe thats a good way to go about it. I used to work with a dude that owned everything he ever did, wish I still did so I could just borrow a random stack.

FZ the composer rewards deep and repeated listening, FZ the lyricist and misanthrope doesn't (with a couple of rare exceptions). This album, FZ played on Baroque instruments by Ensemble Ambrosius, is really good:

http://open.spotify.com/album/40I3p7zHU7waQwZABZoiPr

i've come around to zappa a bit, but it seems like everytime i'm hearing some truly amazing superhuman music in comes some "funny" fake doo-wop or a dude with a mexican accent saying thing

Zappa in a nutshell

i've come around to zappa a bit, but it seems like everytime i'm hearing some truly amazing superhuman music in comes some "funny" fake doo-wop or a dude with a mexican accent saying thing

Yeah, I've got a soft spot for that kind of puerile genre-bending.

When it comes to FZ, sometimes the smarm can charm, but it will just as often harm.

Sometimes both in the same song.

Listening to this for the very first time, and grinning like an idiot. The side of Roxy and Elsewhere containing "Echidna" is one of my favorites, and this nails it beautifully. Thanks, WmC!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpalPoMZegw

Agreed with most of the above - Uncle Meat is such a frustrating album for exactly this reason. You can hear so much brilliance on there, but its also the point where he feels the need to ruin every beautiful thing he ever wrote with goofy vocals or terrible instrumentation or boring snippets of dialogue - I dig dudes that try to challenge their audience, but I feel like FZ just did it for its own sake. "Dog Breath" would be such an amazing composition if they just did it somewhat straight!!

xpost

My pleasure! That Ambrosius album is just gorgeous, but some days I think Music by Frank Zappa by the Omnibus Wind Ensemble is even better. Too bad it's not on Spotify, but here is a short playlist of four of the pieces -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkgEFFBj6mc&feature=BFa&list=PL4F6D5A18F6CE6BAA

Inca Roads/Uncle Meat/No. 7/Black Page #2

Uncle Meat is a perfect album, imo, incl the lyrics and vocals.

Yep, I love Uncle Meat to death. Sprawling, yeah, but wonderful. I just watched this for the first time; I don't know anything about the Token Of His Extreme DVD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PewnFHIHzM

Uncle Meat is definitely one of my favorites too, don't really see how it's ruined

I think my favorite FZ, in terms of writing, performance & production is Inca Roads

I think my main problem with Zappa is that his jokes aren't funny

What about the snorks?

Lots of them were up until about 74.

xpost

dunno what compelled Zappa to rip off the Smurfs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuCq0aZiPT0

"Ruben Sano was 19 when he quit the group to work on his car" = funny

Lots of them were up until about 74.

Bingo, though I did like some of the bizarre robo-sex scenes in Joe's Garage for their pure bizarreness

I don't know if I'd ever call an FZ band unrehearsed. I'd say they sound looser, relaxed, less worried about impressing the boss — they're hot rats shit and they know it...

btw the audio of this taping is up on all the streaming services, if you don't need the visuals

Unrehearsed for a Zappa band at least – they lost four members in mid-May and I don't think this Cheaper Than Cheep band played in-studio / live ahead of taping a month later in June (which they rushed to get done before they started their 74 tour). Although obviously not too unrehearsed to give the taping a shot.

Just digging into the Whiskey a Go Go 1968 set that came out last year and it pretty much peak Mothers, like it might be my favorite thing from this era

Ok, everyone can get back to teeth-gnashing about Zappa

won't write love songs, refuses to write love songs

OK, but how many love songs did, say, Carla Bley write? And how good would she (or Zappa) have been at doing that? And are bad love songs worse than no love songs? And is any of this a moral failing?

Did Carla Bley write lyrics?

A bit

Though Nick Mason's Fictitious Sports was released under Mason's name, it is effectively an album by jazz composer and keyboardist Carla Bley and her ensemble, for whom Mason is merely the drummer. Bley wrote all the music and lyrics for the album.

^^^ one of the best albums ever

I just dropped in to say "Willie The Pimp" is one of the greatest rock songs of all time

love the Qui version

Moon's book is really good. Something I find interesting about it is that she's got kind of a natural wit about her that her father doesn't have. I always thought the main bug up Frank's ass had to do with people not finding him funny. Obviously a lot of his fans did and I think everyone can admit he's at least funny sometimes but he doesn't really elicit belly laughs...he's not, yknow, ha-ha funny. He's clever funny. You can hear the audience laugh in the live recordings sometimes but not to the extent he wants them to. I wonder if this really plagued him as he got older. Especially since the one time he actually scored a comedy hit it was because of his daughter, who is actually funny.

Anyways. Wondering if I should pick up the deluxe One Size Fits All. I think its probably my favorite Zappa album, not just musically but even the humor on it is just absurdist shit which I think actually was way more influential than anything he else he tried to do lyrically.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT6JAhD1Cr0 starting at 5:42 that's the bridge from "yo mama" (starting at 1:30) they're using as bumper music. i was not expecting ted turner to use "yo mama" as bumper music.

It is a rather majestic synth theme.

Most importantly is that awesome music that starts the clip, which Shazam found for me. Orion by FM (have never heard of this).