Britpop : Time For Reevaluation?

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Which would make Dodgy a handjob from Arthur Mullard and Paper Lace.

― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 8 March 2007 11:50 (nineteen years ago)

Well, to me they sound a lot more like intelligent and musically sophisticated softrock such as ELO, 10cc, Klaatu or Supertramp.

― Geir Hongro, Thursday, 8 March 2007 12:10 (nineteen years ago)

Paul Edward Wagemann OTM.

oh, fandangopaws!

― unfished business, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:03 (nineteen years ago)

Ocean Colour Scene and Dodgy were awful (staying out for the summer was quite good, but Good Enough was the worst big britpop song of all)

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:04 (nineteen years ago)

Good Enough was the worst big britpop song of all

I kinda agree with this (even if it looks like a work of genius next to The Automatic), but it IS by far the worst track on Free Peace Sweet, which if viewed by the objective ears of an impressionable 10 year-old (i.e. ME aged 10) isn't actually all that bad! Many of the songs still hold up strongly today, such as If You're Thinking Of Me, UKRIP, Homegrown and One Of Those Rivers. In fact, it's an album whose second half is immeasurably superior to its first. I suspect most people judged it on Good Enough (ugh) or In A Room (meh).

― unfished business, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:10 (nineteen years ago)

Even a ~~stopped clock~~ total cock gives ~~the right time twice a day~~ otm... now & then :-p

― fandango, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:10 (nineteen years ago)

I LIKE THE BOREDOMS TOO DONT HATE ME

― unfished business, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:10 (nineteen years ago)

this is where posters like Geir are invaluable; they offer up an unbiased perspective to the sort of music that the average ILMer would shun out of hand.

― unfished business, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:13 (nineteen years ago)

"unbiased"

― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:14 (nineteen years ago)

"invaluable"

― Tom D., Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:19 (nineteen years ago)

"Geir"

― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:20 (nineteen years ago)

maybe i was wrong about 'unbiased', but he's certainly willing to see the good in dodgy (if not in, say, mbv)

― unfished business, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:22 (nineteen years ago)

They probably didn't do themselves many favours by (a) their name; (b) Matthew Priest dicking about on too many Buzzcocks episodes but their first three albums were decent enough.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:28 (nineteen years ago)

I'm more willing to see the dodgy in good (xp)

― Tom D., Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:29 (nineteen years ago)

"music"

― Frogman Henry, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:32 (nineteen years ago)

But Marcello can't even defend OCS.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:37 (nineteen years ago)

If You're Thinking Of Me, In A Room, Making The Most Of, Melodies Haunt You, So Let Me Go Far - all excellent. Dodgy were considered a bit of a boring band back then but I think they'd fit in quite nicely next to the Kooks, The Fratellis etc if they were around these days.

― the next grozart, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:37 (nineteen years ago)

Dodgy were considered a bit of a boring band back then but I think they'd fit in quite nicely next to the Kooks, The Fratellis etc if they were around these days

And so, m'lud, the case for the opposition rests...

― Tom D., Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:40 (nineteen years ago)

Quite so, but I also think Dodgy would kick the arses of said bands.

― the next grozart, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:42 (nineteen years ago)

you mean literally in an actual fight?

― blueski, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:47 (nineteen years ago)

You see, OCS:

Chris Evans, blokeism, straining sweaty brows, Real Ale guitar solos, king-sized boss waxings, Weller, the wretched Chris de Burgh B-side that is "Day Trip To Bangor" or whatever the bloody song was called, da-DA-di-ya-da-DA da-DA-di-ya-da-DA TFI Fucking Friday with special guests Sharleen Fucking Spiteri and Robbie Bastard Williams...

It's difficult.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:48 (nineteen years ago)

Dodgy are like the band with the widest gap between the praise accorded to them in the nme/mm issues i read at the time and their actual quality.And consideing the blethering hype given to everyone and his dog in teh mid 90s that's saying something.

― Frogman Henry, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:49 (nineteen years ago)

...but I can remember every song off Free Peace Sweet in an instant! Their songs are at the very least more unforgettable than not. Maybe I listened to them at the optimal age for retention, I dunno.

― unfished business, Thursday, 8 March 2007 14:42 (nineteen years ago)

"Good Enough" I used to love the first 3-4 times I heard it. After that I got sick. But the rest of the "Free Peace Sweet" album is still great. Including "In a Room" which has one of the best middle-eights ever composed.

― Geir Hongro, Thursday, 8 March 2007 23:41 (nineteen years ago)

And as for OCS, "The Day We Caught The Train" and "You've Got It Bad" are both great pop songs. "The Day We Caught The Train" is the kind of 70s-like complex composition that I really love, and I rank it among the Top 10 songs of the entire Britpop age.

― Geir Hongro, Thursday, 8 March 2007 23:44 (nineteen years ago)

deciding factor: 90's Britpop >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 00's Britpop

― unfished business, Thursday, 8 March 2007 23:49 (nineteen years ago)

That's not exactly saying much.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Thursday, 8 March 2007 23:52 (nineteen years ago)

What is 00s Britpop anyway? I don't consider most of the Nu-Postpunk bands pop at all. Franz Ferdinand and Kaiser Chiefs are both great though.

And, no, Coldplay and Travis aren't Britpop. Great, yes. Britpop, no.

― Geir Hongro, Friday, 9 March 2007 10:46 (nineteen years ago)

Current Britpop is the slew of shit the NME is still trying to sell us in the ten year wake of the 90s Britpop boom. So really what I'm saying is the UK press latched onto bands like Blur, Oasis and Pulp, found a gap in the market for these bands and created a scene and low and behold it worked. It worked for 3 years pretty much but soon as is with all good things the market got saturated by knock offs versions, poor follow up albums, media overexposure and a general trend for different music.Cue NME burying their heads in the sand: "This is awful! Let's pretend it's not happening! British guitar music is the only thing that sells this paper. It's our bread and butter, so let's get ourselves down the Hope and Anchor and see what we can dig up." And so off they go searching for some kind of Britpop holy grail - a band or scene that will once again make their paper look trendy again. And they come back with Terris, the Klaxons, the Coral and Tiger and invent microscopic non-genres in the vain hope that one of these bands will blow up and become huge. And sometimes it works - seemingly dull and unadventurous bands peddling out standard guitar/bass/drum sounds still shift a few papers among the nation's population of 19 year olds. Pete Doherty is the new Liam Gallagher, Kaiser Chiefs are the new Blur. Great, NME has succeeded - now let's hope this gravy train keeps going. But there's been something going on in the world outside. Times have changed yet national press and radio stay the same, playing bands with little aural scope who could have come out at pretty much any time from 1975 onwards while in real life it's the American indie bands who are striving for wonderment and experimentation. I wanted to say that there are other innovations happening on British soil that the NME is pretty much just ignoring and was going to use Dubstep as an example. But sadly I don't think the NME could ever take Dubstep very seriously. I was trying to think of some genuinely decent forward-thinking and innovative guitar-based music from the UK in the last 5 years and was very hard pushed.

― the next grozart, Friday, 9 March 2007 11:33 (nineteen years ago)

I have to review the NME every week :-(

The very fact that the Kaisers are compared to Blur speaks volumes about what a shocking state we've gotten to. The difference in calibre, in experimentation, in quality, in ideas, in EVERYTHING, is absolutely staggering. TKC sound like they've heard that Phil Daniels vocal in Parklife and ditched everything else. Dudes, he wasn't even IN Blur for heaven's sake.

And as for your final point...

...well, we've got Oceansize, Youthmovie Soundtrack Strategies, The Electric Soft Parade, Hood (Outside Closer), Mogwai (their fourth album), The Cooper Temple Clause (until their third-album sell-out), 65 Days Of Static, Elbow, My Computer, good ol' SFA, and Working For A Nuclear Free City, amongst I'm sure several others.

It all depends on what you mean by 'forward-thinking and innovative', but I reckon those above bands fit the bill nicely.

― unfished business, Friday, 9 March 2007 12:24 (nineteen years ago)

haha "Terris"

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 12:25 (nineteen years ago)

not sure why people would be looking at guitar-based music for 'forward-thinking/innovative' generally anyway because of it's age and ubiquity. at least Britain totally sucks at it these years it seems true.

― blueski, Friday, 9 March 2007 12:38 (nineteen years ago)

Haha, Louis I wasn't comparing the Kharzi Chefs to Blur, just saying they're the modern equivalent as far as relative popularity goes.

Your list of alternative bands is good - such a shame though that there are only a handful of these bands out at the moment and they do vary in quality, many of them still riding on Postrock's tatty coattails. People moan about Pitchfork all the time but at least they're actively going out and reporting on music as opposed to the NME who just seem to reach into a lucky-dip bag of demos by shit UK guitar bands and write tired patronising hyperbole about their choice, slap a sticker on the front of the album and it sells a million copies. Across the pond at least you've got the whole Noise/psych scene and freakfolk and other bands who don't really fit into a category but are at least trying to do something a bit different - the indie scene in the States is strikingly healthy compared to the zero-track-minded gumph coming out in the UK.

― the next grozart, Friday, 9 March 2007 12:39 (nineteen years ago)

i'm not sure we're not very good at dance music, pop music or (postpost)modern art these days either.

― blueski, Friday, 9 March 2007 12:44 (nineteen years ago)

why people would be looking at guitar-based music for 'forward-thinking/innovative' generally anyway because of it's age and ubiquity.

The same thing is sadly happening with dance music. It's not a fresh-faced exciting youngster anymore either.

During the britpop era all the best uk bands were making dance music. None of the Britpop bands made an album as good as Leftism.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 12:45 (nineteen years ago)

hey, I wasn't saying that YOU were comparing them, I was picking up on your point that others such as the NME were doing so, and hammering the nail home.

A few of those bands are quote 'riding on Postrock's tatty coattails', yes, but they've all put their distinctive spin on it. Oceansize for instance combine post-rock, progressive, electronic, pop, and metal until there really isn't a detectable genre present. Which is the way forward IMO.

― unfished business, Friday, 9 March 2007 12:48 (nineteen years ago)

Blur did, so did Pulp - but that's arguable I guess.

― the next grozart, Friday, 9 March 2007 12:48 (nineteen years ago)

xpost

― the next grozart, Friday, 9 March 2007 12:49 (nineteen years ago)

M****N *folds arms*

― unfished business, Friday, 9 March 2007 12:51 (nineteen years ago)

I miss x-post notification.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 12:54 (nineteen years ago)

Seriously, I have to fucking REVIEW the NME in my job as radio station music assistant manager. Reading the single reviews, I ask myself: are they taking the fucking piss? Music journalism is NOTHING LIKE this, this is stream-of-consciousness moron-fodder idiocy that name-drops other artists every other fucking sentence, seriously how the FUCK do they get away with it?

― unfished business, Friday, 9 March 2007 12:54 (nineteen years ago)

>> the indie scene in the States is strikingly healthy compared to the zero-track-minded gumph coming out in the UK.

This has probably been true for the last 20 years. [/yankophile]

― Colonel Poo, Friday, 9 March 2007 12:55 (nineteen years ago)

Across the pond at least you've got the whole Noise/psych scene and freakfolk and other bands who don't really fit into a category but are at least trying to do something a bit different - the indie scene in the States is strikingly healthy compared to the zero-track-minded gumph coming out in the UK.

There are tons of bands in the UK who are making good and interesting music that doesn't fit into a category. I don't which respective nation's bands you have in mind here, but it seems like you're going down a pretty reductive road with this line of thinking

― DJ Mencap, Friday, 9 March 2007 12:56 (nineteen years ago)

A few of those bands are quote 'riding on Postrock's tatty coattails', yes, but they've all put their distinctive spin on it. Oceansize for instance combine post-rock, progressive, electronic, pop, and metal until there really isn't a detectable genre present. Which is the way forward IMO.

Haven't heard Oceansize yet. Your description has set off certain alarm bells though in the fear that this band will flaunt their so-called eclecticism in a bit of a tired way, forgetting to master the styles they're trying to combine while simultaneously forgetting to innovate at the same time... That's perhaps unfair since I haven't heard them yet, but I'll say this about 65DOS (who are a great band and great people too so I feel bad about criticising) that their new material is going to have to do more than sound like a pleasing mishmash of Squarepusher and Mogwai. From what I've heard about Youthmovies is they're trying awesomely hard to be Gospeed Y.B.E! And while there's nothing wrong with that, where is the UK's Animal Collective? Where are the Lightning Bolts and Black Dices and Joanna Newsoms and Devendra Banharts and Decemberists? Say what you will about these bands but at least they have a fairly unique sound to them and I think that's more important these days than going "it's a rock band - but we use drumloops too, it's bloody mental!".

― the next grozart, Friday, 9 March 2007 12:57 (nineteen years ago)

This has probably been true for the last 20 years. [/yankophile]

Don't really agree with this either. The nineties were an exceptional time for UK pop music and as far as the more challenging stuff is concerned, the UK has led the way in many other styles up until about five years ago what with Warp Records etc.

― the next grozart, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:00 (nineteen years ago)

And can I say at this point I've got that annoying "RUBY RUBY RUBY RUBY" song going on in my head and it's making me want to stick unfolded paperclips into my eyes.

― the next grozart, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:01 (nineteen years ago)

Youthmovies is they're trying awesomely hard to be Gospeed Y.B.E!

Someone is bullshitting you, this is so untrue it's laughable. They're basically math-prog with awesome singalong choruses and the occasional free-form sax solo. And great riffs!

Oceansize, fear ye not, are fucking fantastic at integrating all their influences into one coherent whole. This doesn't preclude their music from being very varied, but IMO they pull off almost everything they try with flying colours. Get Effloresce, it's probably the best album of the 00's. YA RLY

― unfished business, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:01 (nineteen years ago)

Okay I will. I'll give Youthmovies another try too (even though that's one of the worst names for a band ever),

― the next grozart, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:03 (nineteen years ago)

The Beta Band were our Animal Collective, they got there first, they were better, and they died before they grew stale. :P

― unfished business, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:04 (nineteen years ago)

and if there's one band that wanted to be GY!BE it was Hope Of The States, but they also wanted to be trendy-indie Britpop so they FAILED MISERABLY.

― unfished business, Friday, 9 March 2007 13:06 (nineteen years ago)

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