The thread for discussing the amazing Life Is A Problem comp on MISSISSIPPI records

by "choose to listen" i mean those are the "suggested" videos that show up when you're done.

there's really nothing "weird" about it and that's something that i admit kind of freaks me out a bit about the often undifferentiated mix of "outsider art" and just "stuff you haven't heard". i mean, i often find the music pretty damned compelling in both instances. but the flattening out that occurs when the common denominator is allowed to be "weird" is problematic. it's an act of othering is what it is.

yeah i just don't agree; one of yr previous posts inched towards the potential ethnocentrism of implying a mysticality to a product, but i just don't think that's what it is. there's something auditory about s.e. rogie or william onyeabor records that makes me feel okay about "weird" - it's a relative term, sure, but i don't think i'm getting too culturally bogged down. i think it's a production thing, or at worst it's maybe an appreciation for the thing's obscurity in our canon/hierarchy/w/e.

gonna check out yr wald thing, but again - these are two approaches, right? & the one run by the guy in north Portland who just jives to this stuff in his living room is gonna be different and have different priorities.

also when you're done w/ that youtube you can chose to listen to all kinds of stuff: contemporary kenyan pop, video footage of mwenda, more songs performed by wald, etc etc. more "random" and intriguing and genuinely serendipitous than the kind of psuedo-serendipity for which you can choose to pay $65.

this is a weird analogy! again because one man's funnel of love is another man's yesterday, but otherwise because youtube is probably not a preferable mode of commercial distribution upon close inspection

frankly the whole thing strikes me as tacky. the pine box (and other gambits that mississippi and other labels have tried), devoid of any connection to the music, feels like ham-fisted way of infusing the set with the "aura" of a distinct (rather than mass-produced) object. but the very wilfullness (sp?) of it, and the clumsiness of the conception and execution, makes that aura feel cheap. and at a moment in time when you have blogs where people share music they love as well as tons of smart ideas and information, the whole "mystique" aspect seems like a cover for laziness or lack of knowledge.

...my point is just to say that despite your defense and despite isaacson's claims there is clearly a lot more to the "mississippi aesthetic" than simply sharing good music with good folks. i'm not saying it's sinister or anything, just that there is a level of investment in a mystique that the dude refuses to acknowledge. we've talked about this too.

oh, piffle. this whole thing, the brace words you've expended on this, amounts to a trivial aesthetic objection. no one is being harmed here. literally no one, not even the consumer, as the mississippi releases are generally quite affordable. you wish the dude were less defensive. okay, maybe he's too defensive. big deal. and you wish there were liner notes. me too, but i can live without them, as i'm more interested in the music as music than in reading about it. and you wish there weren't an aura of "mystique" and object-fetishism attached to certain mississippi releases. as far as i'm concerned, neither is a sin, but if you're repelled, you're welcome to tune out.

your willingness to attack harshly bothers me. you accuse mississippi of bootlegging, but then admit that other, ostensibly more respectable compilers are equally limited in their ability to find and pay the proper rights-holders. you're almost comically eager to accuse mississippi of ripping off a single source, but then have to amend yourself to admit that they've cast a very wide net. you suggest that anyone who was interested could go to other sources for this material, but then admit that you've spend dedicated years tracking it down yourself. that sucks. it suggests that your hostility here is not a product of the way this particular product has been assembled and presented, but rather a preexisting condition that you're seeking any available outlet to vent.

you're welcome to tune out.

is this a variant of the old thumper saying, "if you can't say anything nice..."? i have nice stuff to say about other mississippi releases, usually the ones worked on by other folks like the lomax archive (nathan salsburg) or ian nagoski etc.

i don't see it as a trivial aesthetic objection. it's an aesthetic objection tout court. it doesn't matter much in the scheme of things, but then neither do your or i. people have expended far more verbiage complaining about other things (like a single pitchfork review, say) on ILM. hell, "trivial aesthetic objections" are our bread and butter. beyond that though, i feel--though i haven't made clear in yesterday's posts--that something of the "mississippi aesthetic" (that is, trying to clumsily re-inject a mystique where such a thing is redundant, just a general desire to mystify) is evident in other things, other approaches within what might be called the record-buying public or something. but i'm not nabisco so it's hard for me to find handy ways of explaining this without offending people.

i noted above that this release simply isn't for me, but might interest other people. i also noted that i could work on providing links to DL most of the stuff on this box, which would render the box and the $65 or so it costs redundant for those who don't need the object. i dunno, i don't personally see the point of paying for something that you can get for free otherwise. obviously if you and other folks feel that the presence of the music on a particular format (vinyl) and in a handmade pine box constitutes value added, by all means go for it. i don't care.

and i almost feel like a jerk pointing this out, but they didn't really cast a wide net. the vast majority of the music in the box is from three or four comps, all released in the same series on the same label in the 1980s and 1990s. much of the other stuff is from sources that are currently available, either as LPs or as downloads from the folkways website. the two bebey tracks may constitute the true rarities. at what point does this become kind of weird? if i download the entire "music of liberia" comp from the folkways website, make my own LP out of it, put it in a white sleeve with my own corny art brut drawings on it, and then sell 500 copies for $15, is that not a little lame? (this is almost literally what that "monk" record label does btw.)

but you're right. who cares? nobody. the same however could be said of almost every ILM thread. so i guess i touched a nerve.

at what point does this become kind of weird? if i download the entire "music of liberia" comp from the folkways website, make my own LP out of it, put it in a white sleeve with my own corny art brut drawings on it, and then sell 500 copies for $15, is that not a little lame?

i guess there's a fulcrum point for everyone where the production of interesting objects tips over into lame object fetishism. sure, mississippi records are providing collectible, LP-format product for people who are specifically interests in collectible, LP-format product on the mississippi records label. that's weird to the extent that it strikes you as weird, but i'm okay with it because value-priced and aesthetically appealing mississippi comps have introduced me to a lot of music i'd likely never have heard otherwise. beyond that, they're fun to have and look at and arrange on shelves in order to satisfy a hoarding itch - i won't deny that.

if "the vast majority of the music on the box" really is drawn from a single source, then i agree: that's kind of lame. and it's bullshit if they didn't even think to credit their obvious source. then again, perhaps they secured permission from the original compilers, i dunno. in any event, it's hard to work up any real objection over an obvious fetish object with a print run of only 200. basically nobody's ever gonna hear the damn thing.

for the most part, i don't judge introductory compilations on the basis of whether or not they include "true rarities", material unavailable elsewhere. i love the nuggets series and the rhino power pop comps that have been discussed recently around here because at one time they presented me with a convenient, well-curated introduction to songs, artists, eras and genres with which i was unfamiliar but about which i was curious. of course, most of what they contain is available elsewhere. little was rescued from vanishing obscurity, but didn't bother me much. i'm not a genre expert and certainly wasn't when i first heard them, so rounding up the usual suspects did me a great service. i enjoy them even today because i simply like the music and track sequencing. the same is true of many of the mississippi records compilations i own.

i've come to see mississippi as a reliable guide to a world of wonderful music with which i'm largely unfamiliar and who reward me with cheap yet hoard-worthy objects for the attention i pay. that strikes me as a fair exchange. the album-objects they manufacture are almost like cereal box prizes in that regard. the music is point, but the allure of a shiny new toy can't be denied. it's clear that you don't really require the kind of introductory guidance they provide, anyway.

paragraph 1: "...specifically interests in collectible..." = "...specifically interested in collectible..."

paragraph 3: "...but didn't bother me much." = "...but that didn't bother me much."

paragraph 4: "...unfamiliar and who reward me with..." = "...unfamiliar, and they reward me with..."

it's hard to work up any real objection over an obvious fetish object with a print run of only 200.

Imho, if it's wrong, it's wrong, no matter how few or many copies. Can't Mississippi ever listen to anyone else's (arguably the consensus) pov re how to re-release music re crediting people and liner notes and such?

too many "re"'s

eh, many of their releases have extensive liner notes and accreditation. this one's apparently an exception. and i don't yet know that there's anything really wrong with it. would have to know a bit more about the sourcing on a track-by-track basis and whether or not the original compilers were consulted.

bottom line, though: no. i think that if you're producing goods in ridiculously small quantities and selling them basically at cost, then there is no way to do wrong. jack led zeppelin II for all i care. no harm done. there's a single-sided total control LP that has a side of early beatles tunes on the flip, clearly "mastered" off an old vinyl copy. i don't see this as wrong. i see it as value-added.

many of their releases have extensive liner notes and accreditation.

Not the few I have

i've got more than 20, and i'd say it's about 50/50. the comps almost never cite sources. can see why this might rankle some, but as long as they're doing as good a job of paying the rights-holders as the original compilers, it doesn't bother me.

And you believe they are paying the rights-holders, or have even made efforts to do so ?

i don't have any reason not to believe that they haven't made a good-faith effort. they're described their policies in this regard, and they seem satisfactory to me. as amateurist said upthread, it's often all but impossible to contact or even identify the rights-holders where these sorts of recordings are concerned, and this has been as much a problem for the "respectable" anthologists from whom mississippi seem to source much of their material as it is for mississippi themselves.

also, i don't believe they've made much money (if any) selling handmade LPs in extremely limited runs for $12 a pop, so it's not as if they're some kind of rapacious vampire organization profiting off obscurity. and, yes, that is an important distinction afaic.

lol

"i don't have any reason not to believe that they've made a good-faith effort."

so many typos and such...

paragraph 1: "...specifically interests in collectible..." = "...specifically interested in collectible..."

paragraph 3: "...but didn't bother me much." = "...but that didn't bother me much."

paragraph 4: "...unfamiliar and who reward me with..." = "...unfamiliar, and they reward me with..."

― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, June 5, 2012 2:36 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i seriously admire you for proofreading your own post. that is after my own heart.

it's often all but impossible to contact or even identify the rights-holders

sometimes, but not always. often it just requires more effort than most people are willing to put in. the soundway dude goes to pretty impressive lengths to figure this stuff out.

as i noted above, it seems like the mississippi releases curated by other folks, like ian nagoski, nathan salsburg, etc. are much more responsible in providing info and context on the music. isaacson just doesn't seem interested in that, though to his credit he hasn't tried to suppress it in the releases he doesn't initiate. it's really those alan lomax, nagoski, etc. releases (and the stuff licensed from big legal mess) that i really love of mississippi's recent releases. when they go it alone, as in this african guitar box, the results are kind of tacky. but i repeat myself.

i also love their michael hurley, dead moon, etc. stuff too, but that's a different hill of beans.

yeah, a lot of my affection for mississippi is a product of their LP reissues: dead moon, dog faced hermans, the ex, michael hurley, clara rockmore, "bongo joe" coleman, abner jay, bruce haack, washington phillips, etc.

"i don't have any reason not to believe that they've made a good-faith effort."

C'mon, the label's whole history as has been documented here and elsewhere is reason NOT to believe they make any effort at all

i don't think that's the case at all. early on, they had the idea that they were operating at such a low, "off the grid" and "among friends" level that they didn't need to worry about that sort of thing. when it became clear to them that their circle of friends was spanning the globe and that people were becoming upset by their indifference to copyright and proper remuneration, they tried to make reasonable amends. tbh, i respect both the position from which they started and the accommodations they would up making. they just aren't pheonix/radioactive or whatever.

i mean, that's as i understand it, and perhaps i've been misinformed.

by "off the grid" do you mean "placing bootlegs of LPs by african musicians in every significant indie record store in the USA?" b/c that's what happened (i think it was the orchestre regional de kayes LP). they apparently corrected that error eventually (or so i recall reading), but i just wanted to point that out.

yeah, but that's the point at which the rubber hit the road, right? in their early days, they'd been operating out of their portland shop exclusively, making records for in-store customers and a fairly small network of friends. then they spread out to a clutch of west coast indie shops, and after that to the rest of america and the world.

i forgive them for failing to adjust their practices ahead of their growth curve because they've been responsive to criticism, they don't seem ever to have done anything for profit, and they were never printing particularly large quantities. they still produce some of the cheapest LPs out there, and it's not like the quality is poor. i pay twelve to fifteen bucks for a mississippi record, and the chances are good its gonna come with a bunch of inserts, a bonus 7", a handmade cover, special printing, maybe even a gatefold or some such. that speaks to me of a fundamentally ethical, "in it for the music" mindset. were i buying a cutthroat, money grubbing boot, i'd be paying $25-30 for the same.

yeah i'm not hating over it i just wanted to point out that they managed to get a bootleg (or two or three) into stores before public shame caused them to alter their business practices.

that speaks to me of a fundamentally ethical, "in it for the music" mindset. were i buying a cutthroat, money grubbing boot, i'd be paying $25-30 for the same.

yeah, this is true. those LPs on the monk label, which seems to have jumped on the bandwagon once mississippi became a big thing, are more what you're describing insofar as they are really tackily packaged comps of old blues stuff that's been reissued (on every conceivable format) a million times, and they charge real import prices--$18 minimum, often i see them for $30.

and they are mastered, like most of mississippi's comps, from other LPs or CDs (or even MP3s) rather than from original elements or even selectively-sourced 78s.

i should say most of mississippi's comps not curated by salsburg, nagoski, etc.

yeah, those monk albums are crazy overpriced and boring besides. no sensibility of their own, just a record mill.

i mean, i recently bought an LP reissue of ali farka toure's ni foli, a cassette originally issued in 1984. it's on "social music", a portland-based record-club label specializing in tiny print runs that's clearly modeled on mississippi records. the music is wonderful, but the album is minimally (and rather crudely) packaged, with no explanatory information. just a record in a sleeve, basically. i can't imagine that the estate of AFT was paid what they might have asked for a legit reprint, given his international celebrity, but i'm happy to have it as it's not easily available elsewhere and came quite cheap. and because i'm a nerdy vinyl geek. if there's harm being done here to anyone but hoarders of the original cassette, i can't see it.

htttps://rapid-----.com/files/3655039306/AFT.rar

delete extra t and s

cool, thanks, i hadn't gotten around to digitizing it :)

and yeah, it's everywhere now that the LP's out

and maybe before, but i'm a fan, and i'd never come across it

more killer stuff comin:
https://sites.google.com/site/mississippicsr/

super old hurley lp accompanied by an all-new home recording blue hills-y one

Land Of Lo-Fi was an old (90's?) Hurley tape release. This could be different though. So psyched for the Folkways sessions one.

oh huh, no kidding. i didn't know there were tapes, actually; was just listening to him enthusing about eight tracks on this, tangentially; he plays the slurf song about ten minutes through & then o my stars just before the end. o my stars makes me ache.

written up as new, anyhow: Michael Hurley - Land Of Lo-Fi (New home recordings)

hey woah! http://www.landoflofi.com/

woah! will buy!

there are some great tapes from the 80's and 90's that he reissued on hand-burned CDR... Growlin' Bobo, Woodbill Bros., a double called Land Of Lo-Fi/Redbirds were all CDR. Excrusiasion '86 is tape-only and I still don't have it.

i admit i like that this stuff is coming out in a kind of steady trickle rather than in some massive box set or whatever. gives you time to appreciate each drop.

the hurley stuff i mean. that movie looks great and what a fantastic website!

yeah i love that you can read the bios for both protein monster AND jolie holland. can't quite work out the relevance of the performances that are listed, & which you can sponsor, but i hope there's some good live hurls in the film.

my guess is those performances will be in the film and/or bonus features on DVD?

I know it is old news, but I was lucky enough to finally get the True Story of Abner Jay today, wow made my whole week

oh man... so much of that record is so amazing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kajvEslcEPM

ugh, just gonna bump this thread whenever something new's forthcoming - even though it's been a while since i picked up a mississippi record!, i'm outta the loop - but:

V/A - Hasabe (Ethiopian R&B compilation)
& tsegue maryam gebrou, alemayehu eshete & mahmoud ahmed reissues. the gebrou piano stuff is just the bomb.

i have only spun hasabe once but it sounds great, btw. i am enjoying this, too; a mix of ethiopian 45s, starting with this super-sweet astatke-arranged slow take on tezeta. the guitar playing's consistently so beautiful, the music has its own pace.

hey anyway so here is a super vague question. there is a gospel jam in my head that i can't place - i felt like it was on one of the 3cd tompkins square post-war gospel comps, neither of which i have to hand, & then wondered if it was maybe on a mississippi comp. it's sung like a duet, over a very minimal electric guitar backing, with a woman singing falsetto and a guy singing a lower part, but still kinda high, & i feel like it ends with the main line being something like "do you nee-ed pow-err", kinda straining, repeated, very slow, the voices in and out of sync. i'm skimming tracklists & can't find anything: does anyone know what i'm talking about? post your phone number & i'll call you & sing the gospel to demonstrate.

is hasabe available anywhere except vinyl?

it's all sourced from the ethiopiques series but the comp's just vinyl