!!!
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:51 (twelve years ago) link
so good art only expresses noble/intelligent/productive ideas now, it can't reflect other things?
― Chris S, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:56 (twelve years ago) link
exactly, i like the first couple beastie boys albums largely because they're so full of dumb ideas
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 22:01 (twelve years ago) link
'self awareness' is exactly whats gross about this, tho, its based on weird insecurity of dealing w/ rap as a white girl rather than just ~being herself~ & competing on a level playing field w/ others
a suburban-seeming middle class white girl being insecure about an identity as rapper -- wow, that is just so weird!
― sarahell, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 22:05 (twelve years ago) link
kitty pryde vs childish gambino
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 22:06 (twelve years ago) link
^hell fyi
― Chris S
apollonian ideal get into it
― the late great, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 22:11 (twelve years ago) link
backlash agianst dionysus begins HERE
:)
― Chris S, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 22:16 (twelve years ago) link
http://bestof.provocateuse.com/images/photos/jamie_bamber_97@.jpg
could def get into this apollonian ideal
― sarahell, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 22:24 (twelve years ago) link
the beastie boys dont seem self conscious at all
― man down (D-40), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 22:26 (twelve years ago) link
no, they have different dumb ideas (most involving beer and hooahs)
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 22:30 (twelve years ago) link
you sure you're not confusing apollo and adonis?
― the late great, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 22:31 (twelve years ago) link
xxp
― the late great, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 22:32 (twelve years ago) link
sorry for nerd lolz - that's a pic of "Apollo" from Battlestar Galactica
― sarahell, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 22:33 (twelve years ago) link
lol, i've never seen BG, but i figured due to ruggedized bunk beds (suitable for spacefaring)
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 22:35 (twelve years ago) link
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, May 16, 2012 3:06 PM Bookmark
kitty pryde
― The Reverend, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 22:48 (twelve years ago) link
lol
Deej otm imho
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 22:56 (twelve years ago) link
dunno if I count as a "hip hop head" but Kreayshawn's one hit was way better than these three that's for damn sure
agreed
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 22:57 (twelve years ago) link
Both Kreayshawn and Kitty Pryde get a hype-bounce from their points of difference vis a vis other rap but I don't think you can conflate those points of difference.
I think where Deej's distinction holds true - and leaving aside what one thinks about the quality of the music in question - is that writing about kitty pryde already has - and I suspect nearly always will - slide into writing about tumblr culture etc. etc. whereas while Kreayshawn has profited from the same dynamics a writer trying to present her music as being about those dynamics would struggle to do so credibly.
We need to distinguish between internet culture as facilitating content and internet culture as the subject of content: at this point even the most scare-quote "real" scenes disseminate a lot of new material - and hence new developments - through youtube et. al. but this doesn't make all of them the same. Of course these things are heavily intertwined, but we can at least talk in terms of degrees.
Whiney's hypothetical lazy writer scanning the web for content to talk up isn't lazy because he's scanning the web - at this point I think we all do that. What might make him lazy is the extent to which his writing simply becomes a kind of recitation of the process of absorbing content and what that content seems to express at its surface level. I am wary of over-celebrating a traditional "work the beat" ethic in journalism because it can easily end up being just as lazy, but I would at least concede that the internet makes it possible to be lazier than ever before, at a critical rather than physical level.
None of this is kitty pryde's fault but at the same time her music seems to invite that reaction. Again, I think an enormous part of this is down to the backing music which positions her much more than the use of teengirl speak does.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 23:23 (twelve years ago) link
I think an enormous part of this is down to the backing music which positions her much more than the use of teengirl speak does.
yes!
― sarahell, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 23:32 (twelve years ago) link
Like, I've hardly been incensed by contenderizer wanting to defend this stuff b/c I suspect I feel about the same level of not-really-sure-what-I-think ambivalence, but I instinctively reject the idea that kitty pryde turns people off b/c she is alien - when it's clear that kp has already considered and decided to target adult audiences looking for yet another form of pop culture as distancing ironic-yet-sincere celebration of youth. The upshot of her being self-aware (and, I suspect, just plain smart) is that the music itself does all the "framing" heavy lifting so that writers don't have to.
Congratulations to her, really. OTOH I think ILX is unusual in that a lot of the antipathy towards artists stems from the presentiment of how much bad writing it is likely to inspire.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 23:34 (twelve years ago) link
target adult audiences looking for yet another form of pop culture as distancing ironic-yet-sincere celebration of youth
I am not in this target market
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 23:35 (twelve years ago) link
is this like 30-something dudes that watch that Lena Dunham show?
― sarahell, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 23:38 (twelve years ago) link
tim i've never seen you incensed on ilm, your sang froid in the face of bs is legendary
― the late great, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 23:39 (twelve years ago) link
OTOH I think ILX is unusual in that a lot of the antipathy towards artists stems from the presentiment of how much bad writing it is likely to inspire.
haha, so otm
― flopson, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 23:42 (twelve years ago) link
yeah, i think i'm sort of outside the bubble wr2 the reactions tim is talking about, mostly because i don't have any strong response to the way the backing tracks position KP's rapping. i have no positive or negative opinions on "cloud rap" (or w/e) and its appeal to hipsters. i think of the tracks as sort of second rate, but a good general choice of foils for KP's voice and persona.
in defending her, i'm only talking about her voice, style and lyrics.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 23:43 (twelve years ago) link
how do you separate her "style" from her choice of backing tracks?
― sarahell, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 23:44 (twelve years ago) link
hey, i'm 40-something, and i watch that show. only cuz my gf does, though. i mean, i saw every single episode of sex and the city, too, but not by choice.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 23:44 (twelve years ago) link
riiiiiiiiiight!
― sarahell, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 23:45 (twelve years ago) link
her style as a rapper/vocalist/whatever. the music is so blah that i don't care about it one way or the other. afaic, it's just a frame that exists around her voice & lyrics.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 23:45 (twelve years ago) link
sarahell, i would be very interested in hearing more about the link between kitty pryde + lena dunham
― Mordy, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 23:46 (twelve years ago) link
won't deny that i wound up getting into both shows. i'm an easy sell (as this thread conclusively proves).
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 23:46 (twelve years ago) link
As a Girls watcher who turned 30 this week, I'd say "yes" with caveats: both seem to get a lot of their sense of momentum from an audience mindset already primed to be fascinated with both the traumas and the dialects of youth.
The difference is that Girls by virtue of being a fully-fledged TV show with characters and plot-lines etc. is in a position to prompt good writing as well as bad.
Articles about KP at this point are kind of like articles on Girls (positive or negative) based solely on HBO's teaser trailer of a few months back.
I am part of the target market btw.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 23:47 (twelve years ago) link
shows i watch atm:
girlsgame of thronesmad menadventure time
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 23:47 (twelve years ago) link
Mordy - the only link in my mind was Tim's phrase "target adult audiences looking for yet another form of pop culture as distancing ironic-yet-sincere celebration of youth," and the fact that contenderizer seems to post a lot in that thread, as well as a conversation i had a while back with an irl non-ilx friend who was talking about how he should watch that show after expressing concerns about aging and cultural relevance.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 23:49 (twelve years ago) link
To be clear I don't have a problem with "yet another form of pop culture as distancing ironic-yet-sincere celebration of youth", but the excitement with which each new example is greeted tends to invite condescending willy wonka meme pictures.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 23:51 (twelve years ago) link
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4523uLY7K1qaac30o1_500.jpg
― polyphonic, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 23:54 (twelve years ago) link
Oh good, America has its own Die Antwoord now.
― 誤訳侮辱, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 23:56 (twelve years ago) link
the only link in my mind was Tim's phrase "target adult audiences looking for yet another form of pop culture as distancing ironic-yet-sincere celebration of youth," and the fact that contenderizer seems to post a lot in that thread
makes more sense to triangulate my posting re: girls, KP and LDR as a combo of marc loi and "i am interested in the discourse"
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 23:57 (twelve years ago) link
tim i've never seen you incensed on ilm, your sang froid in the face of bs is legendary― the late great, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 11:39 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― the late great, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 11:39 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
well, you know, arguments on the internet.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 23:58 (twelve years ago) link
that Lena Dunham show
― ♆ (gr8080), Thursday, 17 May 2012 00:44 (twelve years ago) link
i guess there was that time you got incensed at me for trying to talk about doc daneeka and other hipster funky on the tropical 2 thread
― the late great, Thursday, 17 May 2012 01:00 (twelve years ago) link
furious.
― Tim F, Thursday, 17 May 2012 01:16 (twelve years ago) link
800 posts
― ♆ (gr8080), Thursday, 17 May 2012 02:57 (twelve years ago) link
and to think there are only 4 new answers on the Jackson Galaxy, star of Animal Planet's "My Cat From HELL." thread
― sarahell, Thursday, 17 May 2012 02:59 (twelve years ago) link
haha thats a very unfair comparison!
― ♆ (gr8080), Thursday, 17 May 2012 03:21 (twelve years ago) link
my tumblr rapper kitty pryde from HELL
― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Thursday, 17 May 2012 03:24 (twelve years ago) link
girls is dope ftw
― man down (D-40), Thursday, 17 May 2012 08:57 (twelve years ago) link