anyway eating poop was more sort of a reference to reading yr posts
― the late great, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:25 (twelve years ago) link
really digging this new poop mixtape
― ogmor, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:26 (twelve years ago) link
"teen girl culture"
well yeah. that's where this music is coming from, what it deal with, and what it seems made for: middle class, american, internet-addled teen culture (girl variety).
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:28 (twelve years ago) link
you know i actually know a couple hundred teenage girls and i doubt more than 25% of them would be into this mainly because it's not serious enough
― the late great, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:28 (twelve years ago) link
Did I read correctly that Kitty is in college?
― dlp9001, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:29 (twelve years ago) link
im just arguing that this mystical 'teenness' doesn't make them any more immune from critical analysis than any other style of music.
― man down (D-40), Saturday, May 12, 2012 5:17 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
o sure. i just think that this music would probably be best analyzed by people who have a specific fondness for, understanding of and interest in teen culture. i.e., teens & especially teenage girls.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:29 (twelve years ago) link
25% is pretty good! i doubt that most of the music i like best would be enjoyed by more than 10% of the bitter old collector nerd cranks out there.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:30 (twelve years ago) link
This music lacks discipline, but anything that agitates adult music fans is automatically a good thing.
― Banaka™ (banaka), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:30 (twelve years ago) link
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Saturday, May 12, 2012 7:28 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
so far it seems more like its made for music writers bc those are the only people i see reacting to it
― man down (D-40), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:30 (twelve years ago) link
banaka otm as usual
― Mordy, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:31 (twelve years ago) link
people who have a specific fondness for, understanding of and interest in teen culture. i.e., teens & especially teenage girls.
gonna update my resume w/ this
― johnny crunch, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:31 (twelve years ago) link
so the other 75% of teen girls, what culture are they in
― the late great, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:31 (twelve years ago) link
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Saturday, May 12, 2012 7:29 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
but u dont understand ... i just posted, on fader, the exact same day, about a teenage girl who raps. and shes not gracing the ny times today. why do u think that is?
― man down (D-40), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:31 (twelve years ago) link
i mean 25% of the teen girls i know basically just listen to the beatles and stones and dylan, does that prove the beatles and stones and dylan were made for them?
actually they sort of were! and yet that doesn't stop many white critics from liking them?
things that make you go HM
― the late great, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:32 (twelve years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5s2WZv0MXm4
― Chris S, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:33 (twelve years ago) link
i guess those other 75% have been sucked in by what older people think is important and what teenage girls should listen to, unlike the kitty pryde fans that represent the real teen girl
― the late great, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:33 (twelve years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LV4VpYicCE
isnt this TEEN GIRL CULTURE & why isnt it getting full writeups in natl publications??
btw i'm not saying it should, im just curious if anyone thinks theres something SO NOVEL about KP's music that it's earned this kind of attention
― man down (D-40), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:34 (twelve years ago) link
yeah, articles about her have elided her real age. she talks abt being 16 in "justin bieber", but i get the feeling that she's at least a few years older.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:35 (twelve years ago) link
same culture and different cultures at the same time. no culture is truly unitary, especially not one so vast as "teenage girls in america". and people are different, no surprise.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:36 (twelve years ago) link
so tell me, if its no surprise then why do you keep saying dumb shit about "teen culture"
― the late great, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:37 (twelve years ago) link
you're like that idiot i knew in high school who would claim all of his errors were actually rhetorical stratagems and socratic method
― the late great, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:38 (twelve years ago) link
i'd say that the 2nd most obvious reason is that it's familiar music that succeeds according to the established rules of rap as a genre. there's nothing terribly novel about it.
don't want to get into the 1st most obvious reason, as i don't think it would benefit the thread.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:38 (twelve years ago) link
benefit the thread? come on, don't break your streak now.
― the late great, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:40 (twelve years ago) link
Ok, so she's in college and at least 16. Glad to hear that young kids are making music now. I'll send a letter to Alex Chilton in his grave to let him know.
― dlp9001, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:40 (twelve years ago) link
that we can identify cultural groups doesn't mean they're unitary. and i think that, though neither is homogeneous, it would be hard to find two cultural groups in america with less in common, aesthetically and philosophically, than adult male music critics and teenage girls.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:40 (twelve years ago) link
now who's the 'rap expert'
― man down (D-40), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:41 (twelve years ago) link
hey, look: i've been civil and positive all the way through. if you've got something to say, then say it. i'm not pushing for any kind of clusterfuck here.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:42 (twelve years ago) link
sometimes i wish an ilxor would be like: 'i don't understand how anything works, i don't know why anyone including me really likes anything, the void is infinite and stretches before me i'm afraid" cause that would be preferable to this exchange
― Mordy, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:42 (twelve years ago) link
jeez mordy step away from the computer already
xp
ok, here's what i have to say: you keep making ~BIG PRONOUNCEMENTS~ about subjects like ~TEENAGE GIRL CULTURE~ based on ideation rather than any actual experience and iirc i called you out about this on another thread
i mean sorry if you don't like it but getting called on your bullshit is rarely a pleasant experience
― the late great, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:43 (twelve years ago) link
the other artists brought up in this thread and youtube'd in this thread to suggest "this, on the other hand, is good" don't do anything of the same personal coming of age diary sort, and whether you think kp is complete dog shit or not no critics here seem capable of asking or answering why this particular person gets more appreciation than other teenage white blog music girls who don't, like all they can say is "this is embarassing", "this is a fashion mag CONSPIRACY", there's no critical thought into it, no willingness to argue about the music itself, the message, the point of view this person is coming from, only generalized bullshit about teen culture drawn from their own past. embarassing.
― abcfsk, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:44 (twelve years ago) link
don't claim any expertise. as i see it, sasha go hard's approach is much more in line with the loosely defined, quality-defining "rules" of rap as a genre than KP's. if i'm wrong in that, let me know.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:44 (twelve years ago) link
i think whats novel abt her was touched upon upthread.
reporting believably from the frontlines of teenhood while being smart enough to reflect and joke about it in a genuinely funny and touching way
also idk y old ppl (including myself in this) cannot relate, the themes are p universal adolescence stuff & uncertainty & playfulness just updated 2 include the weirdness of the internet also
― johnny crunch, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:45 (twelve years ago) link
you contenderizer i don't see what's so civil about implying a bunch of posters are secretly sexist paedophiles because they think this girl is bullshit
― the late great, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:46 (twelve years ago) link
there's no critical thought into it, no willingness to argue about the music itself, the message, the point of view this person is coming from, only generalized bullshit about teen culture drawn from their own past. embarassing.
ironically enough that's pretty much how the positive kudos for kitty pryde read too
― the late great, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:47 (twelve years ago) link
abcfsk otm
― johnny crunch, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:47 (twelve years ago) link
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Saturday, May 12, 2012 7:44 PM (36 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
this is bc of your own white privilege & constant justification of the status quo of discourse as if its a naturally occurring thing instead of the result of ppl's power relations etc.
you're not wrong about sasha per se, you're wrong about KP being some radical break w/ (a different) tradition. she raps like paul barman over the same beats main attrakionz have been using to banal wallpaper smedium internet success.
xxp 'the frontlines of teenhood' gtfo
― man down (D-40), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:48 (twelve years ago) link
― johnny crunch, Saturday, May 12, 2012 7:45 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
they cant relate bc its poorly executed
― man down (D-40), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:49 (twelve years ago) link
don't do anything of the same personal coming of age diary
ah yes, the in situ bildungsroman, highest form of art
― the late great, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:49 (twelve years ago) link
you keep making ~BIG PRONOUNCEMENTS~ about subjects like ~TEENAGE GIRL CULTURE~ based on ideation rather than any actual experience and iirc i called you out about this on another thread
i haven't really made any big pronouncements about anything, though. i merely suggested that the POV articulated in this music might be alienating to adult male music critics due to simple cultural distance. you don't know anything about where i'm coming from, what i know or don't. and in that other thread, you did exactly the same thing: arrogantly proclaimed the superiority of your understanding without even trying to engage with what i was saying (before dramatically storming out).
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:50 (twelve years ago) link
― man down (D-40), Saturday, May 12, 2012 5:48 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
the first part of that is horseshit, and unless you can support it with stuff that i've said in this thread, it's contemptible that you'd feel the need to drag it in.
the second part i disagree with. i think it was easy for adult critics (mostly dudes) to relate to and appreciate paul barman's schtick. much less so kitty pryde's.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:52 (twelve years ago) link
"merely"? you sure you don't mean "feebly"?
― the late great, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:54 (twelve years ago) link
the paul barman comparison is abt her musical approach. there's nothing novel about her style that isn't also novel about sasha's in a different context
― man down (D-40), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:54 (twelve years ago) link
i haven't really made any big pronouncements about anything, though. i merely suggested that the POV articulated in this music might be alienating to adult male music critics due to simple cultural distance.
haha! i'm such a simpleton! i don't understand "simple cultural distance" between "my culture" and "teen culture".
how arrogant to assume that since i work day in and day out with teenagers i might know a thing or two about what they like or dislike or whether kitty pride "speaks for them"!
― the late great, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:55 (twelve years ago) link
― the late great, Saturday, May 12, 2012 5:46 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
you misread something. i casually (jokingly) agreed that adult male fans of KP were creepier than the haters. in response to whiney calling her fans "paedo manchildren". otoh, i do suspect that knee-jerk sexism does play into the contempt that's habitually displayed by men for specifically female culture, and this is no exception.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:56 (twelve years ago) link
contenderizer lacks so much self awareness that he cant see how his 'simple cultural distance' might actual inform his bias about the novelty of KP vs Sasha
― man down (D-40), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:57 (twelve years ago) link
oh i see it was a joke, what an idiot i am!
― the late great, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:57 (twelve years ago) link
― the late great, Saturday, May 12, 2012 5:55 PM (42 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
you're personalizing this in a very strange way. i haven't said anything about you specifically.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:57 (twelve years ago) link
hahaha "female culture" i should ask my mom about kitty pryde tomorrow, maybe SHE can break it down for me
actually, dickhead, you specifically said i was arrogant
― the late great, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:58 (twelve years ago) link
no, what you missed was that i wasn't calling the haters paedophiles
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:58 (twelve years ago) link